Has Anyone Auditioned an LKS MH-DA004 DAC?

@jib222 It's been a while.  Any word? 

@dlcockrum   Yes, hope we can see this at some point.

jaybe,

Fair challenge. I was basing that statement on Ric Schultz’s comment in a recent phone conversation that he felt that the LKS 004 sounded better (to him and a customer) than a modded Yggdrasil DAC in a head-to-head listening comparison. Just a data point. I too would like to read real-life comparisons between the 004 and the DACS you mentioned and other well-established products in the higher price ranges.

Dave

I would wager that every designer would always opt for a huge outboard supply, but the market wouldn't tolerate it.  I was talking to Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note about the CD 4.1x and he said he had to design it as a 1-box unit for the Japanese market because of space issues.  I think what you're saying about "well designed" is important, but no matter how well-designed, you can't do internally what you can do with a brute force outboard.  I think.  I know Linn has a "Brilliant" PS, but I don't know if it's internal or not.  I leave that to the engineers. 

@chayro - IMO properly designed it doesn’t have to be outboard. Whoever has written about the LKS finds it absolutely silent. That’s true of a number of others with large inboard PS, as well as preamps with large inboard PS, etc. I'm with you that power supply is very important.  I’d rather get it built in then be offered a sell-up option at much higher ultimate cost.

@melm - I wasn't really talking about this DAC in particular.  There are countless new digital products on the market that the makers or the masses claim far exceeds what came before and I find it difficult to comprehend why the DCS Rossini is allegedly so much better than the Puccini.  What didn't DCS know when they built the Puccini?  Planned obsolescence?  Possible, but I don't know.  Again, a big power supply is always a factor and I think more companies should offer the option the way Naim does.  Not that I am pushing Naim, but I think that many people have never heard what a really big outboard power supply can bring to a preamp or digital product.  Amplifiers too, of course. 

" ...the fact that a Chinese firm is able to design, build, and direct market a quality full-function DAC with high-end sonics/construction/feature set at a selling price 50% (perhaps up to 90%) less than past or even current established-brand products with comparable sound quality."

Comparison with DACs at 50% to 90% higher price will be needed to prove this to be true. Direct comparison, in the same room, the same setup, and at the same listening session. That’s the only way. Any takers?

I have never maintained that this unit blows away anything. Frankly, I have no idea. What I do know is that this Chinese maker has just piled in a lot of quality parts and technology in a $1500 package, beyond anything, I think, that a known American or European brand has ever done at anywhere near this price point. I don’t care about "blowing away." I do care about great value. I think most people will acknowledge that it sounds good. Better than Brand X? I don’t know, and don’t really care for Brand X will cost more, probably a lot more.

The LKS has dual ES9038PRO DACs, large dual toroidal linear power supply (50? watts each) with 13 groups of regulation*, all JFET discrete output stage, Amanero USB module, Crystek femtosecond clock, Jensen or Mundorf caps, Cardas RCAs, Neutrik XLRs, Furutech IEC, and even a Swiss Shute fuse plus a remote in a 15.4 lbs. package. Who does that for $1500?

I acknowledge that there may be other, better, approaches to building a quality DAC. But surely this one is pretty OK.

Closest domestic brand value manufacturer I can think of is Oppo, and they make great, high value stuff. I have a 105 and love it. But a lot of people have spent more than the price of the Oppo to modify it, and likely will continue to do so.

*talk about the importance of power supply, something I share

I get where you are coming from chayro and I agree that power supply quality is of paramount importance. That being said, the progress in DAC chip power/capability/flexibility, digital circuitry, output stage design, etc plays a part too.

In this particular case (the LKS 004), it really is three things: the utilization of two powerful DAC chips in a dual-mono 2 channel configuration (vs, for example, Oppo using the same 2 chips, but with one for two channel mode and one for multi-channel mode in their 205), the elimination of op amps in the output stage (discrete), and the fact that a Chinese firm is able to design, build, and direct market a quality full-function DAC with high-end sonics/construction/feature set at a selling price 50% (perhaps up to 90%) less than past or even current established-brand products with comparable sound quality.  

Dave

I just don't understand new dacs "blowing away" all of the older more-expensive models.  What didn't they know 5 years ago that they know now.  I will tell you - from my experience with Naim gear, the power supply has a huge impact on the sound.  So I can see where a massive outboard power supply might be of consequence.  But I just don't know what has been recently discovered in the world of dacs.  Seriously. 

melm - just sent you a PM.

Dave

Relax! Just my opinion, for which I’m not accountable to you. Thanks!

In the gareneau post, someone was asking a question. You, however, were offing a sincere opinion. So I would respectfully stand by my questions.

Anyway, I find it interesting that you think the LKS may achieve the sound of up to a $4000 DAC, but not the sound of an $11,000 DAC for example. Since you haven’t heard the LKS, by what logical reasoning do you come to that conclusion? Do you go by weight? Volume? Absence or presence of op amps? Do you look inside and estimate the cost of their components and apply a multiplier? (If you do, by the way, don’t neglect the LKS’s Furutech, Cardas and Neutrik connectors.)

As for delta sigma chips, I would not claim they are the best, or even know whether there is a best. But I fear you may be a bit behind the times. Even the older ES9028PRO has been implemented very successfully, and that is the key, I think: implementation. Most who have heard the newer ES9038PRO have written that the early "glare" complained of is entirely gone, and so it seems on my LKS. If the ESS chips have an economic advantage that leaves engineering room for things like better clocks, and particularly a more sophisticated audio section. Sounds good to me.

@melm Which Berkeley, which DCS? Whichever one @gareneau was referring to.

Yes I’m being sincere in my opinion about beating these top DACs. But nowhere near as bombastic as the posts claiming it could be the worlds best DAC. Blows away others no matter the cost. Now THAT’S a crazy statement.

But sincerely (ha!) I do hope it turns out to be a really good DAC that can compare favorably with ones maybe in the $2000-$4000 range.

Be sure to read the Denafrips Terminator post for a completely different POV on ESS / delta sigma DACs.

"My opinion, I sincerely doubt this [$1600 and then fully modded DAC] would be better than a Berkeley or DCS DAC. Not in the same league at all.

Do you mean the $5000 or the 16,000 Berkely DAC;
or do you mean the $11,000 or the $35,000 dCS DAC? 

A "sincerely" held opinion about a DAC that you have never heard.  But, you know, you might be right.

I love these threads.

"One thing here no matter how much anyone mods the unit and all the Hype"

First of all there is no "Hype." The LKS unit is virtually not marketed at all. If you want to talk about "Hype" continue to write about PS Audio. Fact is you’re comparing $1600 product that you have never heard with a Direct Stream Jr. @ $4000 or a Direct Stream @ $6000.

And just for the record, Ric has recommended the LKS without any mods at all on the Digital Asylum site. While he, as everyone knows, has an interest in mods he had nothing to gain from this recommendation, actually to a working classical musician who writes very frequently on the subject of recorded music.

Also as a person who does mods, Ric has an interest in identifying good hardware at a good price as a subject for modification. That’s the bias, if you wish.

As for more bias, mine is for vinyl.

From the EVS site:

5-15-2016: I have a friend in Pocoima who has one of these and we have been tweaking them at the same time. He has a great turntable system ($20,000 worth) and he says that playing 16/44 from his Beatis server through coax and then through modified IFI spdif Ipurifier and then through modded LKS is at least as good as his turntable system!! No upsampling....nada....just great sound.

Hardly unbiased, as it is by or about the guy that did the mods.

Not saying the DAC is bad, but consider carefully the source of all these comments.

Does seems odd to me that a Baetis server (~$4-5K, and nice but nothing special, you can build the same or better at home for ~$2K, I did <look online for the photos of Baetis servers that have been taken apart, very revealing> ) is used to feed a $1500 DAC. And a "modded iFi unit"? Whatever......

My opinion, I sincerely doubt this would be better than a Berkeley or DCS DAC. Not in the same league at all. Not likely to find a real comparison either, as I see the owners’ of these DACS to be mutually exclusive. And no real reviewer is likely going to write-up a DAC handled by the DIY crowd, for obvious reasons.

That said, I’m still interested in the DAC and finding unbiased objective reviews or comments on the unmodded unit from sources that are not part of the DIY crowd and from someone with sufficient listening experience to make meaningful comparisons with other DACs.

One thing here no matter how much anyone mods the unit and all the Hype 
Which everything is subjective .the saber chips yes even their new ines have a distinct personality detailed and for me a bit bold. 
There a re a bunch of Very good dac s out there a. The new Totally custom 
architecture fro PS audio Direct stream  is in that $10k class  can be bought for around $4k 
and modular just had a Big firmware upgrade. Playback designs is like  their big brother similar sonics in many respects . The tube Lascala dac is Excellent as well as Lamizator,and many others.
that being said some people donot  want a analog sound if their equipment ,
cables,or speakers are a bit laid back this dac Rick mods may be perfect.
there is nothing perfect that suits everyone. Everything is system dependent 
System Synergy means everything . I am working on a 3-4  USB  cable comparison  for anyone to even think a cable is a cable is total out of touch .1010
arejust bits timing accuracy, and yes metals used effect everything to some point.
even with digital .a $20 monster cable  although very well engineered lacks many qualitys a reference cable can  only bring .quality of parts  just as in the dac .
It will be good to see the results on this dac , and key what equipment and cables used .i totally dislike a comment best of best .with no indication what you used to make this statement.

From Ric Schultz on the WBF:

My friend in Pocoima has a modified Yggdrasil and recently received the LKS MH-DA004 DAC ($1600 delivered from China). The completely stock stone cold out of the box LKS DAC was better in almost every way. Now he has modified the LKS (per my instructions) and feels the LKS sounds as good (playing 16/44 through Beatis server, through coax, through modified IFI spdif Ipurifier) as his $20,000 turntable system. Does this mean the LKS with mods would be better than Berkeley or DCS? 

The LKS DAC has I2S input, plays DSD up to 512, has digital volume control and 7 selectable digital filters.....completely discrete output stage, discrete shunt regulators for output stage and is the first and only DAC in the world that I know of that has two ESS 9038 DACs in parallel.

"what other dacs do you have experience with? Please share your comparisons based on your experience. Thanks."

Almost none.  I am mostly into analog.*  The only other DAC I have owned is a Lavry DAC a while back.  If you want comparisons write to Stereophile; I am not a reviewer.  I have tried hard not to overstate my credentials.  I just took a look at what this thing has inside, read what some others have said, thought it should be good and took my chances,  I can't really compare as I've not had any digital that is close.  It's closer to my analog--with the usual digital advantages.  You couldn't pay me to sit down and compare a bunch of DACs. I'm not trying to sell anything.

*Though this LKS has me trying out old CDs the way my then new phono pre had me trying out old records.  I don't think I did that, to this extent, with other digital changes.

@melm  what other dacs do you have experience with?  Please share your comparisons based on your experience.  Thanks.

There’s no way you can judge a DAC of this quality through a youtube video. Good luck finding comparisons.

No, my Oppo is factory. But if you’re interested in what Ric has to say about this DAC you can do a search on the Digital Asylum.

melm 

Is your Oppo 105 a modded unit....by Ric Schultz?

Saw some youtube videos on the LKS dac's (both MH-DA003 and MH-DA004), and I think the dac sounds pretty good.  It would be good to know how it compares with other name brand dacs like Ayre, Hegel, Rega, and Auralic just to name a few.

I finally ordered a unit myself, and am very happy I did. The consensus over at Head-Fi where they are ordinarily into mods (even on earlier LKS models), is that this unit doesn’t need any, though I’m certian Ric will want to touch it up here or there. Given the number and quality of the components it should perform, and it does. There’s nothing like it currently available: 2 ESS 9038pro dacs and all discrete components. Who can estimate what this would cost with a fancy name plate on it? I’m not a reviewer so not a ton of comparisons but it completely transforms the sound of CDs coming out of my Oppo 105 through spdif.

There is no sheet metal on this unit; it’s built like a brick, large and heavy--it has two massive torroidal transformers.  Very large heat sinks.  No sheet metal at all. It sounds great even after running it only for 24 hours. Was a bit dark at first turn on. Very smooth, VERY dynamic, unbelievable (to me) control of the bass, and the spacial aspects are spectacular-wall to wall. I’ve just played a couple of classical CDs. Many, many steps above the Oppo. No surprise given its insides, but it feels good to confirm. The last time I had this feeling is when I replaced a pretty good transistor phono pre with a very good all tube unit. Not that the sound is the same, but the quality is there. There’ll be more breaking in and I’ll start trying some higher resolution files.

This is really fun.

Any news on the Dac with the Ric Schultz EVS mod?

@jib222 Any news on the dac?  Let us know how it goes.  Thanks.

How do you know the mods improve it if you've never listened to it before it was modded?  Ah, I guess that doesn't matter.  

Thanks, but if it is what you say, why mod?  What is the nature of your mod?

I'm near to pulling the trigger.  Anything I need to know?

Anyone?

It’s a new DAC with two mono ESS9038pro DAC chips in parallel (said to be equivalent to 32 9028 DAC channels in parallel).and with fully discrete output stages....no op amps.