Mofimadness,
I beg to disagree with you. I think Ie is spot on. |
Rsjm80,
It looks like you have a really nice system. You owe it to yourself to upgrade your cables. A nice improvement in SQ would be your reward. |
Ie,
I agree with you when you state, "a sound that appeals to inexperienced listeners". |
Mofimadness.
That's true about my cable design. But my comments here are solely based on my experience with high end cables in my system for lengthy periods of time -- everything from Kimber to Cardas to ASI to HiDiamond to Bybee to Synergistic Research to Furutech to Elrod to Shuntata. My comments are based on a sober comparison of cables over a period of many years. My comments are not based on bias. |
Mofimadness,
Please note that my comments about Grover Huffman cables appealing to "inexperienced ears" are by no means exclusive to these cables. My comments apply equally to Kimber, ASI, HiDiamond, Synergistic Research and many other cables I have had in my system. |
Ghosthouse,
With all due respect this has nothing at all to do with snobbery. As noted earlier, it has to do with a multi-year comparison of cables from many companies. And may I reiterate, my comments apply equally to a whole host of cable makers, not only to Grover Huffman cables. I can add Pangea and Gabriel Gold to that long list. This is not a matter of superior listening skills. It is a matter of superior cables where anyone can easily hear the difference -- if given the opportunity to do A/B comparisons. People who are initially impressed with, for instance, Grover Huffman or Pangea or Gabriel Gold cables don't have enough experience with enough cable companies to make valid comparisons.
For instance, of you come to Grover Huffman cables from, let's say, Kimber or Pangea or Gabriel Gold or ASI or HiDiamond, inexperienced listeners may be initially impressed with the dynamics and transparency of Grover Huffman cables. But, on closer examination, these cables fall short. Listeners but may not note the lack of harmonics, the thinness in the sound with Grover Huffman cables, the lack of continuity, the lack of layering, the poor imaging with a lack of air around instruments and vocals, and the constriction of the sound stage. In short, there is a lack or realness in the sound quality with Grover Huffman cables -- and with cables from many other companies.
These are some of the most obvious short-comings with cables that may impress folks who have not heard cables from, for instance, David Elrod or Shunyata. While the latter are not perfect cables, they easily make up for the shortcomings of lesser cables and outclass them handily. This can be easily heard when doing A/B comparisons. Over the years I have done careful A/B testing of countless cables from a whole host of cable makers -- power cords, digital cables, ICs and speaker cables. I have done thousands of tests. Most people do not have the time and the opportunity -- and the inclination -- to do such testing. This is not being snobbish. It's just a fact of life.
Of course, there is a price to be paid to enjoy the benefits of certain cables from certain cable makers. Pangea and Grover Huffman cables offer good value at their price points. No doubt about it. But what they have to offer in terms of sound quality should not be confused with the sound of cables from companies that clearly outclass them. |
Jmbatkh,
You're absolutely right about synergy. But the quality of the synergy is what I am taking about. That's what really matters. You cannot get superior synergy with, for instance, Grover Huffman or Pangea or Gabriel Gold or so many other cable companies. No matter how hard you try. They simply do not have the necessary properties. They may fit some systems, granted. But the systems they fit will not be delivering what I term superior sound quality. This is not just a matter of preferences. It is a matter of quality that can be heard by A/B-ing cables from different companies.
For instance, I believe that in virtually any system the synergy of, let's say, Shunyata cables will be far superior to, let's say, the synergy of Grover Huffman cables. There is nothing delusional about this. It is a simply matter of auditioning these various cables side by side to know there are indeed superior cables out there. Of course, one size will never fit absolutely all. But I am not talking about one-size-fits-all. I am talking about taking a broad spectrum of mid and high and systems and inserting these cables to verify that the properties of some are, indeed, superior to others over that broad spectrum -- with exceptions granted. |
Jmbatkh,
My comments (above) have no bearing on how much we enjoy our systems, no matter how evolved they may be. I use to get immense pleasure from my crystal radio and then my transistor radio. And then my first real system in 1967. It is very true that one may not need exceptional cables to enjoy one's system immensely. But exceptional cables -- well-chosen for system synergy -- will surely elevate the sound quality of top components. |
Denon1,
I like the Shuntaya Zitron series and their Alpha series, as well. You can pick up some bargains on Audiogon. They are the best buy in high end audio cables for my system. Except for some DIY cables (see below). I see Shunyata are bringing out a new line. But the prices are "reference prices". Just reading about all this gives me cable fatigue. Elrods do well on some components in my system where Shunyatas do not work as well. But they are very pricey. I run most of my cables in series using my own modded DIY Furutechs. And I do other mods in my system to optimize cable performance.
For my system, the best DIY bargain is silver wire for speaker cables. They beat every contender I have ever used -- by a wide margin -- including Elrod, Synergistic Research and Huffman, among others. As Ozzy has observed, there is so much BS in the cable business around the latest and greatest speaker wire offerings. BS baffles brains, as we used to say.
In my experience, it is only the conductor that matters -- despite all the talk from makers about various metals, dialectrics, cryogenic treatment, quantum tunneling, ribbon configuration, magnets, patents and patents pending, geometry, active shielding, special coatings, proprietary formulas and other nonsense. All these makers have their chest out ready to put their wonderful cables up against any and all contenders. They all produce amazing cables that "punch way above their price points" -- many of which are genuine "game-changers".
There is no end to all the improvements -- from MKI to MKII to MKIII, from SX to SX+ to ZX to ZX+, from Super to Ultra to Reference to Super Reference to Ultra Reference. If only prospective buyers who don't know any better would fall for the marketing -- of mostly ho-hum products offered up in attractive packaging -- and hyped to the hilt -- with A/V shows and reviewers auspiciously quoted and YouTubes to drive home the point.
Talking about cable fatigue, I hazard a guess that cable makers who bring out one line after the other with one improvement after the other have never done A/B comparisons of their cables with those of other makers. I have written elsewhere on the Forum that I can guarantee the follow. If some of the well-known cable makers were brought into a room and a blind test was done with their cables most of them would not be able to identify their own -- despite the ebullience of makers regarding their latest offerings and all the superlatives in gushing text. There is so much BS in the cable business. Caveat emptor.
I will be posting about the previous digression regarding Huffman cables when I have the time to do all the documentation. I am snowed under with work launching a new product and I do not have the time at the moment. |
Tubehead21,
When you state "I don't think the Huffmans and the Shunyatas would ever be cross-shopped ", I think you may be surprised that I am not the only Audiogon shopper who has "cross-shopped" from Huffman to Shunyata -- either directly or with intermediate steps. And if you shop wisely on Audiogon you can pick up some Shunyata cables for not much more than Huffman cables.
Please note I did mention earlier that Huffman cables offer good value at their price points. But your point is well made. Of course, the cost of the more expensive Shunyata cables is far higher than Huffman cables. But please note that Shunyata has recently cut the price of their cables substantially while improving their quality. An amazing feat in high end audio where price increases are usually expected. |
Sts,
I believe that not everyone here will know who Sts is. IMO, it would have been appropriate for you to make a full disclosure before your recent post to let people know that you are the maker of Gabriel Gold cables. |
I have compared Huffman ZX cables with literally dozens of other cables in A/B testing using all sonic parameters as a guide. The cables I have used for these comparisons are from Cardas, Mogami, Supra, Pangea, ASI Liveline, Kimber, Bybee, Furutech, Synergistic Research, Elrod and Shunyata.
After comparing many Shunyata cables with Huffman ZX cables there is no contest. Shunyata wins hands down -- across all parameters -- in my system and in other systems where I have heard them. This includes the parameters of detail, clarity and transparency. Huffman cables have a very definite signature -- a constricted sound stage and a sound that lacks fullness (harmonics). The result is SQ that lacks "naturalness", for want of a better word.
Huffman cables do not deliver "true to the recording" sound at all. They delivery what I would characterize as a "small" sound -- thin and constricted -- appropriate for less expensive systems, perhaps. To highlight these observations, if we are looking only at ribbon cables, if you compare the Huffman ribbon cables with Elrod ribbon cables (much more expensive, to be sure) it is very easy to confirm the same observations made (above) regarding Shunyata cables. |
I forgot to add Gabriel Gold, Paul Kaplan and AMR cables to the comparison list. |
Rsjm80,
There were never any jaws dropping with Huffman cables in my system. They are good value for the money -- but no more than that, IMO. Actually, the latest Shunyata cables are not "super-priced" although their SQ certainly puts them in the category of "super high end", IMO. In fact, you can pick some of them up on Audiogon for well under $1000. Even some of the older versions are great -- with very reasonable price tags on Audiogon.
I also "pay attention to the performance of the room". I have Synergistic Research ART, 4 Steinmusic Harmonizers, 10 Schumann resonance devices (4 of which are Chartres coils), 4 QRT Symphony Pros, one 4-module QRT ElectroClear, 2 Shakti Hallographs, 2 Audio Magic PEAs, 2 Audio Magic Wave Stabilizers, and numerous DIY room treatments. I do not believe I have ignored "the performance of the room".
Groverh,
Sorry -- I have heard the new Huffman cables. They may blow "the others away" -- but they are nothing special in my system. Shunyata has done the "blowing" here. So yes, I am prejudiced in favor of their cables. They use OCC deep-cryo-ed copper. There is a world of difference. Not all copper is alike -- not by a long shot. There is nothing like OCC-deep cryo-ed copper, IMO. Huffman cables do not use OCC deep-cryo-ed copper.
Caelin Gabriel knows what he is doing. If you check the prices of his newest cables they are no longer thousands of dollars. He has priced them within reach of nearly everyone now -- even at retail -- while making huge improvements in SQ. I have never heard a Huffman cable that comes even close. |
Groverh,
You may put your cables up "against any regardless of price." But that does not mean they would stand up to the comparison. In my experience, having done hundreds of A/B tests with Huffman cables they simply do not stand up under the comparison. By the way, neither do Gabriel Gold, Supra, Pangea and some of the others.
Huffman cables are good value for the money but they do not deliver superior SQ, IMO. If you have a look at the better virtual systems on Audiogon I think you will have a hard time finding any that have chosen Huffman cables "regardless of price". |
Groverh,
With all due respect, you may note that I always state the following -- in my system and IMO. Yes, I am prejudiced. My prejudice is what works in my system. You are also prejudiced. Your prejudice is obviously for Huffman cables, being the maker. Shunyatas and Furutechs work very well in my system, far superior to Huffman cables.
I have found cables from a number of companies that may impress the listener, as least initially. Among these brands are Pangea, Gabriel Gold, Huffman and ASI Liveline. But when you make a serious appraisal of these cables after letting them settle into the system they end up as clear under-performers when compared A/B to better cables.
I have been doing comparative testing on cables -- hundreds of cables -- for years. I do not believe many people -- including many cable makers -- have done this kind of A/B testing using their cables head-to-head opposite the cables of the competition. They may announce they are willing to put their cables up against any other cables -- even much more expensive ones. But we have heard this sort of unimpressive declaration many times from many cable makers. This is simply called marketing. In fact, most makers have never done the comparative testing -- the testing that inevitably would show their cables fall short of better cables. But if they did in fact do this testing, does anyone think they would ever publish the results?
Your testimonial page is a very small sampling. And there are only 2 testimonials that mention Shunyata cables where the posters do not give any details of their systems. So, this information is of limited value. Of course, there are obviously systems where Huffman cables work well. But, as I stated earlier, if you have a look at the better virtual systems on Audiogon I think you will have a hard time finding any that have chosen Huffman cables "regardless of price". |
Groverh,
I am not an authority when it comes to high end audio -- far from it -- and I have never claimed to be an authority. I only know what works in my system -- and what does not.
With all due respect, instead of addressing the issues in my recent posts you are now moving away from the cable issue under discussion by bringing up an unrelated and erstwhile professional matter that has long since passed. I feel this is inappropriate for this thread and should be the subject of a PM. I respectfully note that the issues I have raised here, stated honestly and clearly, that relate to various cables makers whose names I have cited, have been avoided by introducing into the discussion what I feel is an inappropriate distraction.
Full disclosure: Grover Huffman and I had a professional relationship in 2013. We were partners in a project to develop a new power conditioner of my design. He signed a non-disclosure agreement with me. He enthusiastically embraced my design and demoed it at Newport last year while crediting me as the designer. He developed the production model and I traveled to Singapore to market it. He then let me know by email that he had already proceeded to incorporate my design in his cables -- without my consent -- in a modified form that he claimed was unrelated to my design. As a result, I ended the relationship.
I think it would be appropriate from here on in to stick strictly to cable issues on this thread. We have a good discussion going that is very active with opinions and observations from all sides. This is the kind of discourse that provokes thought and elicits a wide variety of viewpoints. I believe this is a very instructive subject to explore and that we have been doing so in appropriate and constructive ways and should continue to do so. |
Groverh,
I certainly do remember this email and my feelings of yesteryear. There has been a lot of water under the bridge since then. As with many things to do with cables and our perceptions, things change. Ted Denney used to quote my old posts about his SR cables. Things changed there too. There is no use looking to the past for things that have passed -- things that cable makers might choose to use in a self-serving manner. What sounded wonderful initially with Huffman cables did not turn out that way in the end, alas. Things changed. I imagine you would be embarrassed by emails of yours that I might quote. But I am not going there. |
I have probably enthused on the forum about nearly every product I have ever introduced into my system. Are we to be judged by our past choices or by our present choices? Are we to be judged by the level of past enthusiasm for products that we would not look twice at now, in retrospect?
I will list the names of some companies whose products I have praised highly in the past but whose products my system and I have outgrown.
CABLE MAKERS: Grover Huffman, Synergistic Research, Bybee, Gabriel Gold, Supra, Pangea.
SPEAKER MAKERS:
JBL, System Audio, Totem, Merlin, Joseph Audio.
AMPLIFIER MAKERS: Marantz.
DAC MAKERS: AMR, Antelope, Berkeley, NAD.
POWER CONDITIONER MAKERS: Synergistic Research, Bybee.
This is only a partial list off the top of my head. If we are to be judged by our former audio likes and dislikes then there would hardly be a poster who would dare say anything on the Audiogon forum. Are we to live in fear of makers who choose to defend themselves on the forum by quoting our old posts to try to embarrass or intimidate us? I think not. |
Denon1,
I have posted a reply but it has not shown up yet on the thread. |
Sts,
I stand corrected. I believe the 99.99 CDA-101 is very similar to OCC 99.99 copper.
Rsjm80,
You are correct. One size does not fit all. There are too many variables to be able to tell anyone what will or will not work best in their system. Each person has to discover this for themselves. |
Grover,
I love chocolate. Remembering how wrong I have been is a complement. It is by being wrong, and knowing I was wrong, that has enabled me to make such great strides toward improving my system. It is those who are afraid to be wrong who are the losers when it comes to developing their audio systems.
I note your comment that "I know how wonderful my cables are ..." Would anyone expect a cable maker to feel differently? I also note your frivolous answer to my respectful and serious comments about Audiogon Virtual Systems that still remain to be addressed. I also note a belittling tone in your response. It does not take too much to read between the lines, IMHO.
Once again, you appear to be personalizing this discussion rather than staying on topic. We have seen this in the past on the Forum -- attempts to sully the messenger instead of addressing the message. I believe most members of the Community are very wise to this sort of thing, having seen this happen so many times in the past. But since this is your first time posting on the Forum you may not be aware of how sophisticated and discerning Community members have become through the years. |
Groverh,
Do you remember this email from you to me on May 31, 2013?
"I feel God has brought us together my friend ..." |
Groverh,
Since you insist on going back to our professional association, you stated in your post "By the way it's a lie that I incorporated your design. I only use my own design Ken." Grover, you may indeed have changed your design AFTER incorporating my design in your cables. But do you remember your May 31, 2013 email to me? -- where you stated the following:
"I'm going to incorporate it [your design] into all my cables you won't believe the difference on the RCA's. Amazing. I'm in the process of buying a lot of submicron particle [name of metal]. The [name of metal] I bought is too large 15 micron and it sinks to the bottom like heavy stones ..."
You also stated on May 31, 2013 that "I feel God has brought us together my friend." |
Groverh,
Since you have outright called me a liar on this thread (regarding taking my design), since you have insinuated that I owe you “a bunch of money” (you did not state this affirmatively but cleverly posed this in the form of a question), since you have brought personal emails into the discussion and since you have made statements that are clearly contradicted by the facts, you have impelled me to respond.
Regarding your statement that you did not take my design, here are exact quotes from your May 31, 2013 emails to me:
"I'm going to incorporate it [your design] into all my cables [sic] you won't believe the difference on the RCA's. Amazing. I'm in the process of buying a lot of submicron particle [name of metal]. The [name of metal] I bought is too large 15 micron and it sinks to the bottom like heavy stones. I'll be coating all my cables. No one will know though ... I feel God has brought us together my friend."
Regarding owing you money, our agreement was a 50/50 partnership. But, in the end, your refused to abide by the partnership you had agreed to. You attempted, unilaterally, to rewrite that agreement so that you would become both an employee AND a partner. You decided, unilaterally, that I should cover all the expenses and that you would receive 50% of MSRP even if the actually selling price was less than MSRP!
And, at the very end of our relationship, you demanded payment of $1000 for services rendered, in breach of our 50/50 agreement, and you demanded no less than $500 for shipping 10 empty aluminum shells and a collection of Tesla Plex SE receptacles up the coast from California to Portland, OR.
My response? I paid you $500 for the shipping and I paid you $1000 for services rendered for putting together 2 boxes -- in full accordance with your demands. I have proof that I made these payments to you. Unfortunately, you have painted yourself into a corner by claiming here that you did not take my design, and by insinuating that I owe you “a bunch of money”.
I note that your posts on this thread represent the first time you have ever posted to the Forum. It is unfortunate that you have taken this opportunity to digress from the subject of the OP, to attack me personally and to misrepresent the facts. By trying to transform this cable discussion into a discussion of our professional association, by introducing private emails into this discussion and by misstating the facts you are attracting disrepute. Lamentably, you are in the process of sullying the reputation that you have tried so hard to cultivate over the years. You have a lot to lose by your ill-advised posts -- and you are in the process of doing so. IMHO.
In my earlier post I indicated the desire to keep to the subject of the OP. But you have chosen to try to misdirect this discussion. I would like the discussion to return to the subject of the OP. The subject of the OP is cables. |
Dvdgreco,
The new Shunyata Alpha series are the most neutral cables I have tried to date. You may be able to pick one up at a bargain price on Audiogon -- well worth the try. I would suggest the Alpha Digital PC for starters. It's not only a matter of neutrality here. The low level detail, transparency and sound stage are stunning. In my system. |
Groverh,
Since you continue to digress from the OP, once I am out from under my work load later this week I will be be more than happy to document all the important points I have made here. I will respond to your recent digression in a very direct manner, quoting emails and dates, so that everyone may be able to "glean the truth".
The famous "it" you are making famous here refers to a coating you developed directly from my design (in a modified form so that attributing it to me could be avoided) -- and I will prove in black and white that this is the fact. With no room for any doubt whatsoever.
Those who care to read carefully through my posts in this thread will know that I am not "trashing" Huffman cables any more than I am "trashing" the cables from a number of other makers that I have named in this thread. I believe it is my right to express my opinions about cables here as freely as others do. What I have stated very clearly is that Huffman cables offer good value for the money -- but not to expect that they, or some of the others I mention, will perform in high end systems as well as some other cables which, admittedly, cost more. Since Shunyata has recently brought down the prices of their cables quite substantially, the price differential has been cut drastically -- which more than justifies digging deep to experience them, IMO. They offer one of the best price/performance ratios in high end cables at the moment, IMO, if not the best.
I think there may be the perception out there that you can buy some of the lower-priced cables and expect them to punch way above their price point, as the saying goes, regarding sound quality. Of course, this is subjective and also system dependent. But, in my system, I have found this to be true only in rare cases. Pangea, Gabriel Gold, ASI Liveline and Huffman cables are not among those rare cases.
Regarding expressing ourselves freely here, I believe we all have the right to state our opinions on matters concerning cables as long as we remain true to the OP and as long as we are respectful of others. If Ted Denney (Synergistic Research), Steve (Gabriel Gold), Franck Tchang (ASI Liveline) and Grover Huffman (Grover Huffman cables) wish to come on the Forum and defend themselves, so be it. Why not? We are all free to enter into the discussion.
But, IMO, it is unseemly to see any manufacturer appear on the Forum, especially for the first time, to digress into non-OP related matters, to bandy about the word "liar" in an off-OP commentary, while apparently trying to berate and belittle a serious poster who has contributed here for many years and who is studious enough to carefully document his statements. Snide and disrespectful comments are always noted by discerning Community members who are able to glean much by reading between the lines.
I will return to this thread before too many days -- with the story of how Ken's Magic Box became Grover's Magic Cable. With allegedly no connection whatsoever between the two? Hmmm. |
This is system dependent. HiDiamond and Huffman may sound good for a while -- but only until you find out that there are much better cables out there. It just depends how far you want to go with this. It depends on how much time, effort and money you are willing to spend.
If you stop at a certain point and you are satisfied with the sound of your cables in your system then you're fine. But you can never find out about better cables once you stop. Which begs the question, is there no end to it? At some point you have to call it quits. Unfortunately, those with really good systems may be calling it quits prematurely with HiDiamond and Huffman cables, because they do not live up to the potential of the components in many high end systems, in my experience.
If you do continue to search for better cables, your earlier laudatory comments -- like my comments on many cable companies -- may eventually be quietly archived to the Used Cables Comments Vault. It's like finding a new DAC or amplifier that outclasses the one you already own. No different. You move on. I have been through countless cable companies in the past 9 years. Hi Diamond and Huffman ZX do not even even close to the cables I now have in my system.
Of course, one expects bravado from cables makers. What cable maker would not declare that he would put his cables up against the best cables out there, cables that are even far more expensive than his? We see these kinds of bold declarations time and again in Cableland. But this is simply marketing bravado. The obvious fact is that this does not mean their cables come close in SQ to the cables of other makers. It just means they are trying to put on a brave face.
The fact is that most cables makers would find their own cables put to shame if they had the courage to quietly install premium cables from competing cable makers in their own system. I have never heard a cable maker admit that a competitor makes better cables than he does. At the least, most cable makers declare that their cables are the best at their price point and that they punch "way above" it, whatever that means, with a deeper sound stage, blacker background, more detail and transparency, blah, blah, blah. As Ozzy has accurately pointed out, there is just so much BS out there from cable makers.
Caveat emptor. |
I really don't know what all the fuss is about. As I stated earlier, my comments are directed at many cable makers including HiDiamond, Huffman, Kimber, Gabriel Gold, Mogami, ASI Liveline, Synergistic Research and others that I have had in my system. YMMV. We all have our own experience, our own systems, and our own opinions. Some makers may be a bit thin-skinned and feel the need to defend themselves on the Forum and to have others come up to bat for them. But that's what the Forum is all about. To participate in the debate. |
The title of this OP is "... Huffman cables vs." The poster is asking how Huffman cables "compare to others". He is looking for "a cable that is neutral". In my experience in my system, without going into the details, Huffman cables are not neutral. Nor are the cables made by the makers that I cited earlier. I would suggest the Shunyata Alpha series for neutral cables. |
Acrylics,
This is not suddenly. This is after a year of experimenting with many cables. A year is a long time in Cableland for me. I discarded HiDiamond cables a long time ago.
Unless you are the moderator and are banning me from this thread, if you do not want to hear any more from me then please feel free to ignore my posts. As long as everyone is respectful and sticks to the subject I believe all Members should be able to express their opinions on this subject without being told their opinions are not welcome. |
Acrylics,
So far so good with Shunyatas. But stay tuned just in case.
Lloydc,
I also make my own cables that have replaced Furutech and Elrod. Not for sale. |
We are all adults here. Everyone can read what they like, avoid what they do not like, and make their own choices. I am amazed that some Members think my opinions are so influential that they need to caution other Members to avoid reading what I have to say. I do not believe Members really need "parental guidance". |
Acrylics,
When you describe an "ongoing pattern of jumping on a new product" you are echoing the established "pattern" of thousands of Audiogon Members. This "pattern" is what makes Audiogon the #1 audio site in the world. Should audophiles content themselves with yesterday's stale products when they can improve their systems with today's upgraded offerings? I think not. Should they be chided for making these changes? I think not. |
As I have stated earlier on the Huffman thread, IMO Huffman cables are indeed good value for the money, but no more than that -- in spite of the cheerleaders and the marketing bravado. We see this sort of thing month in and month out, year in and year out on the forum. In the past I have been guilty of embarrassing exuberance (in retrospect) on behalf of a number of cable makers. No more. |
When I look back to the days when I had Huffman cables in my system it's embarrassing reading my enthusiasm and effusiveness. This also goes for my enthusiasm for Synergistic Research cables and HiDiamond cables, among others. Things change. What sounded great yesterday is often relegated to the audio archives tomorrow. |
Paulcreed,
The only changes I have made in the last while are room treatments -- some additions and some placement changes. The only components I have changed in the past 2 years are my PS Audio DS DirectStream DAC and my Shunyata Triton power conditioner. My words make you dizzy? Thanks for this compliment. Much appreciated. |
Regarding Grover Huffman co-opting my cable design, I note that he felt it necessary to deny he was co-opting Michael Wolff's cable design when they were partners. Since I live overseas and have no recourse and no leverage he obviously felt free to do as he pleased with my design without my prior knowledge and without my consent.
I have been side-tracked in recent months by business affairs and clean forgot to post this information. Here it is from our email exchanges in June 2013:
Grover Huffman:
"I'm coating everything with carbon, nickel, and xxxx (my design suggestion to Grover for changing his conductors). I got submicron xxxx dust to use with the submicron carbon and nickel dust. The cables are incredible. I'll add a mini mag and see what happens."
My reply:
"Ahhh, I understand now. You're already giving them the xxxx treatment. I am not surprised the results are good. I have never had bad results with xxxx. Whereas magnets can be overdone or underdone."
Grover Huffman:
"Already am coating them with carbon nickel, and xxxx. Works wonderfully. The nickel and xxxx are very compatible and add to each other."
You may note that my response to this news from Grover was neutral, muted. It took me by complete surprise -- needless to say. Not the kind of ethics I can do business with -- which is why I began to withdraw from our partnership.
Although Grover may be a fine fellow personally he cultivates a self image and and projects an image that may vary from reality. Please note that I am not singling him out in this respect. He is not alone. Many cable makers and, indeed many people not in the cable business, do the very same thing to get through the day. |
Acrylics,
You cannot believe I am still "carrying on"? What's to believe? I am simply "carrying on" the conversation from a while back where I promised to provide the evidence I was referring to. I don't believe it is astonishing that I am following through on my promise -- although I did get sidetracking by business matters. It might be astonishing if I did not.
Please note that this matter has nothing to do with my opinions. It has to do with Grover Huffman "co-opting" my idea for his cables. The facts are clear. That's what he did. I do not believe that pointing out a few simple facts is cause for consternation. This is an audio forum -- not an audio grand jury.
Now, regarding my opinions about Grover Huffman cables, I have stated in the past that, IMO, they are good value for the money -- but no more than that. And this applies equally to many other cables I have had in my system over the years -- from Synergistic Research, Cardas, Kemper, ASI Liveline, Gabriel Gold, Pangea and HiDiamond, among others. I do not dispute that Grover Huffman cables sound good in your system and in the systems of many others. They are a good match for many systems. But, in my system, they do not come anywhere near the cables I am now using from Shunyata that offer the best bang for the audio buck I have ever heard. I paid less than $1000 for each cable so we are not talking some stratospheric price.
IMO, there is no case to close because there is no "case". There are simply different strokes for different folks. |
Kzhtoo,
I agree with you. It is all about system synergy. But, IMO, cables choices can be as critical as component choices in the overall picture. It depends on the system and the component. Also, room treatments can be very important in the overall picture. IMO, it all adds up to system dependence.
Different strokes for different folks. |
