Great multichannel amps do not cut it in stereo


This is more of a comment than a question.

I have been dabbling in hifi for almost two decades, and in the past 8 years or so moved into what I call 'quality' audio - as far as my budget could muster. I listen to multichannel all the time for TV and movies, but love my 2 channel set up, supported by my dedicated 2 channel amp to run stereo duties.

Since 2009 I had been lusting after the Arcam AVR600 as a no-compromise one box solution for both multichannel and stereo. With the AVR600 model coming to the end of its life I managed to land a new one for a very reasonable price compared to its original rrp. Heavy? Yes. Impressive? Yes.
However, as a two channel amplifier it did not come close to my $1500 Burson Audio integrated stereo amp in terms of detail, soundstage, PRAT etc - in my opinion.
As many have said before, you can not expect one car to be both a utility and a sports car; and you can not expect a jack-of-all-trades also be a master in one area. And this became very evident to me in my comparison.

The Arcam AVR600 is definitely a nice piece of kit, albeit it has its technical gremlins. But it simply can not keep up with a high quality dedicated stereo system, if that is what floats your boat. I can not imagine multichannel separates being much better, as these had been extensively compared to the AVR600, with most indicating a close to on-par performance.

So really, my message is that for high quality multichannel and great stereo reproduction, look for a two box solution including a dedicated stereo amplifier. Spend less on the former, and more on the latter!
128x128marcinziemski
You could also do an integrated + HT processor. At least the Luxman units let you separate the amp, so you can feed it directly from another source, such as a HT processor, or an Anthem HT receiver.

I am seriously thinking of going this route.
Interesting comments. It really is a dilemma. I'll give my solution which works for me and my ears. First a little about my cave, 15 x 23 x8 with room treatment.  HT gear is 5.1 Lexicon MC12B, Emotiva amp (my Krell died) B&W 803D2, Oppo 103, Hitachi 65. It never did 2Ch stereo justice although it was still very nice. Then I went to a 2 system setup in same room, Rogue integerated, VPI Prime Polk SrsSda 3.1TL. Also very nice, actually better than very nice. Then noticed everything being a bit congested. So I started to think about decongesting by finding a way to open things up. I build my own switching unit which allowed me to use both systems with one set of speakers thus eliminating the Polks out of the room. I'm of the opinion that 2Ch will beat HT in most cases. I learned this by playing the same source thru both systems simultaneously via switching between them a almost immediate comparison. I think I've hit the jackpot, at least in my view. FWIW I have yet to hear a better soundstage than what them old vintage Polks could produce and I've heard a lot of great setups in my days. Polks were really on to something before they went mass market.
This has been the story of my life for the last year.  I hate to even think of how much money I've spent trying to build the universal system only to find out that I...  well... failed.

Bear in mind that my system is comprised of separates so I have some flexibility with some of the things I'm able to try.  You won't get away with this if you're using a receiver.  I've spent stupid money on my listening room and did so with a home theater engineering-first approach.  I have a beautiful system with Levinson amps and a Classe surround processor.  It's everything I ever wanted and more for watching movies but I do have a music collection that I've amassed over the course of the last 30 years and it just falls flat in stereo on my HT system. 

Because my marriage depends on NOT having a truck load of gear eating up our living space I've heavily modified the walls and deployed  wisdom insight in-walls.  Their sound fidelity coupled with my Levinson amps does exactly what I want but the Classe is the piece that deadens stereo to the same aggravating swill that spawned this discussion thread.

Go figure though, the SP is more or less a computer and it's asked to a whole lot in terms of algorithmic decoding and channel separation all while passing video streams and somehow keeping it all synchronized. A top notch stereo preamp does as little as possible in order to transmit the purest possible signal from source to amp.

I've hit on what I refused to call a permanent solution because as my poor wife knows, I will spend more money to get it done the right way... eventually. The reason I say this is not a permanent solution is because I've added complexity into the signal path but I have to say it's a really big improvement.  

What I've done as a proof of concept (and as an interim solution) is put a Kramer VS-4X 4x1 Balanced Stereo Audio Switcher (XLR) in front of my L/R channel amps so I can switch my L/R mains between the Classe surround processor and a stereo preamp.  I've played with a number of different stereo preamps and in each case I've been thrilled with the results.  I'm currently using to an old Aragon Aurum with 2-channel sources running through that.  The results have been way beyond my expectations.

For about $200, I'm now able to switch back and forth between surround and stereo and it solved my dilemma (and my marriage) for the time being.  Of course I won't live with a switching device in the middle of my main L/R signal path forever. I'll end up with another set of speakers and amps purely for stereo listening because I'm dumb like that.  What I will say is that something like this may work for you.  Right now and for the next year or two it's working for me.  It's a HUGE improvement!
I struggled a long time with this same problem. Fortunately by spending vast amounts of time not money. Time driving around listening bringing stuff home auditioning, until it was well and truly proven that genuine audiophile quality and conventional home theater are incompatible. Can. Not. Be. Done.

Its simply impossible. Cannot have both. Not within the constraints of the THX mandated 5.1 type system.

So what's so big about 5.1 anyway? Surround. Big deal. Most of the really good movies, the ones with natural sound, the surrounds hardly do anything anyway. So for some fake sound effects way off to the sides I'm supposed to sacrifice really impressively good sound, so good it puts you right in the movie or music? I don't think so.

So the answer it turns out is really simple. You do your music thing with your music system, with a screen between the speakers for movies. And he lived happily ever after.


This is the holy Grail of audio Shangrila. For years I did sacrific exceptional stereo enjoyment for DTS, True Dolby Digital, SACD, DVD-A. Not that I am complaining as these formats do really offer an exceptional listening experience, and you don't have to spend $5-$10k to do it.

The Oppo 95 opened my eyes and then I purchased a pair of Ohm H's two years ago and that really renewed my love for analog stereo. I recently upgraded to an Oppo 105 and this player did reveal  more benefits in my new quest to get the best stereo out of my rig.
  
As many posters have shared  a separate system might be the ticket. I no have a stereo system in my kitchen. I have a  Nikko intergrated amplier, only 60 watts, Ohm L2's and a Yamaha CD-2100 and so far I am very impressed and quite happy. It clear many of us got into music because of anolog stereo and there is nothibg wrong with a home coming.