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Getting into Tube Equipment

Hey there,

I have been gradually getting into vinyl and hi-fi for a while now. I mostly listen to folk, country, and some bluesy-rock music. Examples include the Grateful Dead, Sturgill Simpson, John Denver, and the Tedeschi Trucks Band.

I have been forward thinking about audio equipment I would like to have in the future. The components I am most eager to upgrade are my amp and phono preamp. For the amp, I am very interested in one of the Dynaco clones people are selling like the ST-70, ST-120 or the M-125 by Bob Latino. However, my first order of business will have to be getting a phono preamp with a volume control because these amps do not have a volume control. I would like to preface, I am not independently wealthy and do not expect to be in my life. Therefore, a $12,000 stereo setup does not seem like a reasonable option for me.

Can anyone please give me direction on either getting a Pro-Ject Tube Box DS or a used EAR 834P?

Additionally, If I could get some direction on an amp, it would be useful. Right now I own the Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary speakers and I really love them. The only thing I can see upgrading to is a pair of used Harbeth Super hl5plus speakers but this would be in the more distant future. Based on what I currently have and will be using for awhile, as well as my future considerations, are any of the amps I am considering a best fit? 

-Thomas
128x128captainblackleg
kalali's avatar
kalali
1,977 posts
 
^^^^ Words of wisdom derived from experience, as always.
trelja
3,223 posts
 
@lostbears "I had both an Dynaco ST-70 (which is only 35 watts per channel and Mark III mono amps way back when. These designs are very dated and syrupy sounding today. They don't sound anywhere near as transparent or detailed as most modern tube amps."

You make a valid point.  The original versions of these amps do sound exactly as you described.  That was a reflection of the parts of the day, most specifically, the carbon composition resistors, as opposed to the design / circuits of the Dynacos.  Build / rebuild one using today's metal film resistors, and the amplifier will sound as revealing, open, and insightful as anything you'll find.

Bob Latino's kits are definitely a good way to go.  They outclass many other amplifiers, at a fraction of the price.  Bob's amps replace Dynaco's cathodyne phase splitter / driver stage taken from the guitar amplifier world with the VTA board that implements the Mullard long-tail pair that 99% of tube amplifiers outside the SET space employ.  You wind up with a modern tube amplifier.

Personally, the more I think about the original circuit Dynaco featured, the more I impressed I become.  In fact, I recommend it over the Mullard design.  Its simplicity results in something truly beautiful, both from the electronic and sonic perspectives, I think for the same reasons so many consider SET the ultimate expression of amplification
captainblackleg's avatar
captainblackleg OP
4 posts
 
For extra information, I currently live in an apartment but this is not permanent. Generally, I expect to have my set up in a medium-sized room, perhaps 14'X12' with a ceiling that is not very high. If it is any help, I tend to be attached to older buildings with lots of wood, for example on the floors.

The qualities I would like to get most out of audio could be described as lively, mellow, and realistic. I like music to sound pretty. I don't need all that much bass or high end. I guess you could say I like balance with nice midrange. 
avanti1960
1,476 posts
 
In all my listening a fully tube system / integrated amplifier sounds much better than a tube preamp with solid state power amp and that is the direction I recommend.  
Typically much larger and more immersive sound stage and very smooth, musical sound.  A KT120 based tube integrated will give you all the power you need for the speakers you mentioned.  Also with a tube integrated amp you can be very well served with a dynamic solid state phono preamp.  
My recommendation would be for a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II (KT120 tubes, 100 watts / channel) and a Lehmann Black Cube SEII phono stage.  
minorl
1,016 posts
 

Ralph's (atmosphere) assessment is spot on as with some of the others.

Getting into High end anything seriously involves work.  Some people fall into money, and really just want toys.  Some enjoy certain things and really appreciate them. 

Music is one of those things.  Some listen only as background music (and there's nothing wrong with that for them), some like equipment only and the feeling of ownership of "high end" equipment.  some really appreciate and enjoy the accurate reproduction/play back of music and want it to be as "real" and accurate as they can find and afford.

First I would recommend setting a price point for equipment.  How is that done?  Well, that is difficult.  determine what sound you really like.  accurate reproduction of vocals, musical instruments, etc.  When  you know that, go out and listen a lot to various equipment in different price ranges.  since you aren't buying yet, don't limit yourself to certain price points.  Listen to a wide range of equipment in various price points.  Take your time.  Go to friend's homes and listen, good stores that let you take your music and listen to various equipment.   go to audio shows.  But the point is to go and listen to a lot of stuff at various price points.

When you hear to sound and quality you like.  Then you would have set the price point.  If you are keeping your current speakers, then you have narrowed the field on amps.  When you have done that, you also now know the field for pre-amps.

If then, you can bring equipment to your home and connect to your speakers, then you can get a realistic listening experience.  it is really important to listen in your home on your stuff.  if that isn't possible and you really want to keep your speakers, then ask if you can take your speakers to stores, and listen to amps connected to your speakers there.  if they laugh loudly, then ask if they have similar speakers and listen there. 

Just remember, when you are going to stores and listening, you aren't just listening to the amp/pre-amp.  You are also listening to their speakers and cables and "their room". 

If the store has a wide range of equipment that you are interested in (mostly this doesn't happen), then you can swap one amp for another (changing nothing else) and listen and get a good feel for that amp or pre-amp.

All of this take patience, learning and time.  it can be fun and enjoyable if you aren't in a hurry and are patient.  it is definitely not fun when in every store they look you up and down, to assess your spending capability,  won't set up equipment for you, and are basically not helpful.  Be extra careful of places that are trying to off load standing equipment.

But there are lots of really nice tubed equipment out there.  There are also lots of really not nice tubed equipment out there.  So, investigate, investigate, investigate, listen,  read, ask, and most importantly take stuff home to listen there.

enjoy

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