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mapman, yes it is true that i am a vendor, i am proud to be one and of my work. have i seen you posting in all maker's threads of mini monitor speakers? why does it seem like you prefer to spout your opinions more in merlin threads? as i said before, use the right tool for the job and if you want the lowest octave get a sub. what is wrong with that???
rarely do you discuss the many attributes of monitors in general. yet you seem to fixate on the lack of bass extention and weight. everyone here knows where your taste falls. as i said you have to hear it to know for sure because anything you say is "mostly" speculation and when you speculate you should say "imho".
your opinion is not a given for everyone.
do you know how many people have told me that their vsms totally over power their room with bass and the sound is unlistenable because of it? i was also at a home recently where an individual had a moderate sized room with speakers that on their own, imho have too much bass and he had two subs hooked up at 120 hz. he asked me what i thought but i did not comment. it takes all kinds i thought.
odds are that you will not like my work if or when you hear it. come to rmaf to room 9014 and hear them for your self. then make comments that are based on first hand knowledge. judging my work based on your dyn's and other similar designs is unfair imho.
best,
b |
"why does it seem like you prefer to spout your opinions more in merlin threads"
Because that is the topic you happen to be monitoring maybe?
I offer opinions and observations on many topics of interest to me based on what I learn over time from various sources, including others whose opinions I respect.
IS that a problem too?
In general, I try to keep discussions positive and sometimes humorous. I seldom get into threads about topics or products I do not like and would not consider buying myself or recommending to others. The exception is when I suspect people may be making a flat out mistake or throwing their money away for no good reason.
If I start talking about MErlin less, you can take that as a bad indicator and a negative trend, FWIW. |
If the OP is still out there and cares, after reading through things further, and getting past all the noise, I realize that you are comparing used versus new at a particular price point. That's important.
Used MErlin VSM-MXes at a good used price will probably not depreciate as much as new anythings.
Given that, I personally would be even more hard pressed to go for new Gallos over floor standing MErlins with Bamm.
This is just my opinion of course. I have never heard MErlins but would feel confident trying them in your situation if it were me.
A sub can always be added later if needed, but the benefits would likely be marginal as indicated and only with some recordings/music types in a smaller 12X12 room.
Of course, some people feel more comfortable buying new, all other things aside. Only you as the buyer can make that judgement. |
m, "A sub can always be added later if needed, but the benefits would likely be marginal as indicated and only with some recordings/music types in a smaller 12X12 room."
was that so hard? thank you!
b |
Is the OP's room 12x12? If this is the case, that's too small for either the Merlin floorstanders or the Gallos. Not to mention identical dimensions that will cause havok in your end result...
The TSM or the Gallo Strada with a small sub would be far better matched to the room size IMHO. |
Goatwuss, I disagree that the Merlin VSMs will not work in a 12' X 12' room. I use a pair in my second system, with tube amplification, in a 15' X 13' room - not far off from those dimensions.
The caveat I've found with this room is that speaker placement has proven far more critical than in the 26' X 17' room that houses my main system. But, with care, the end result can still be incredibly good. |
if you treat the corners/ceilings for slap echos, carpet the floor, drape or damp the wall behind them and damp primary and immediate reflections on the sides the sound will be killer.
and a square can be turned into something other by firing the speakers down a diagonal.
did this at many shows with superb results.
this is a non issue.
imho.
looks a litle strange at first but...
b |
"a square can be turned into something other by firing the speakers down a diagonal."
yes, good suggestion.
I ended up doing this to some extent to optimize in my 12X12 room with both monitors and more full range floor standers and the results in both cases are top notch. I would expect similar results with other designs as well, including either Merlin. |
I have heard similar positive comments on this diagonal alignment over the years, but few folks seem to take this approach in anything but a dedicated listening room as might very have the lowest WAF in audiophilia. |
I'm using my Mx in a diagonal set up in a 13'X13' room with tremendous results. This was of course, recommended to me by Bobby. A single trap in corner behind speakers, ceiling corners treated, and of course floor is carpeted.
Speakers are spaced 5'5" apart, and seating approximately 7' away.
By pulling the speakers out into the room, cancels out room boundaries! Also, moving the chair forward or back, also gives me some reinforcement in the tonal and bass department.
The rewards are tremendous, but requires patience. |
toudou has vsm mx's.
for those who remember, back in san fran for the 98 sterophile show i used it in a 14 by 14 by 12 cube and the sound was fabulous. then for years in vegas in the 20 by 22 foot room at the alexis. i think it was roon 620 or 622.
most of these should be on the merlin site in the picture gallery. i have been recommending this set up for almost 25 years and it works like a dream. do not boo foo it!
:-)
best, b |
Here are the general rules I followed to find a good location for my monitors in the 12 X 12 room.
1) Determine primary listening position
2) locate speakers to distribute sound evenly from left to right across the room. Dispersion pattern of the design is a big factor in determining what works best. Locations closer to side walls may work best.
3) Avoid exact symetrical placement of any kind relative to teh room walls
4) Best results for soundstage and imaging together may require tweeters firing to left and right of listening position and not beaming at listener. This will depend on room acoustics and tonal balance of speakers as well.
5) For best soundstage and bass results together, rear or bottom ported designs may need to come out several feet from rear wall. Front ported or sealed designs may go closer to rear wall.
6) Small changes in placement and/or orientation relative to the listening position can have big effects. Liten carefully with a variety of music over time and fine tune as needed. |
Let me also add that, reading articles such as, "How to set up a dedicated listening room without fancy treatments", was a tremendous help.
It is written by Steve Deckert, where he discusses at length, the benefits of a diagonal set up.
http://www.decware.com/paper14.htm
Enjoy.
David |
if you think about it, you are horn loading your system.
no 90 degree surfaces to reflect energy as in a square or rectangular room.
and you can propagate a longer bass wavelength down the diagonal that any other dimension in the room with the speakers anchored to the floor.
if you set it up with a door as a bass vent behind you, now you can even micro tune the room.
some of the very best sound i have every heard came from these types of set-ups.
on day 1 of the sf show i was the only one set up this way and by the end of the show there were 9 rooms like this. news spread quickly.
b |
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"ome of the very best sound i have every heard came from these types of set-ups"
In my home, I run setups in 5 different rooms. The small 12X12 room set up this way is by far the best overall and hard to fault IMHO even with no special room treatments used.
The only problem I have in there is the room is still relatively small. Smaller scale ensemble recordings appropriate for a room that size and pop/rock type music leaves little to want. Larger scale ensemble recordings (classical symphony, big band, etc.) where there is more going on on a larger scale tend to benefit in a larger room where there is more room for everything to breathe. But the bigger room is more a matter of quantity, not quality. I use much larger speakers there and its L shaped configuration requires a much different setup there in order to be able to make good use of the size of the room. |
