p, more powerful amps have more output devices and a lower output impedance. as a result you have higher damping and usually feedback.
lower wattage amps tend to sound more room filling and more relaxed. this is part of what you are hearing.
this is a great match for the imp corrected and relatively efficient vsm.
ok?
b |
g, getting the older bam and rc's upgraded to the master bam and master rc's will result in an increase of 20 to 30% more fullness and extention. this has been suggested many times by individuals that have had it done and those comments can be found on this site by doing a search for the master bam and master rc mods.
ok?
still trying to get martykl to modify his so he could experience this for himself.
good luck.
bobby |
that is why i left the bam and rc's with you thuan, so you could use them while the parts were coming from denmark. too many modifications were sold too quickly for duelund to be able to make the parts in the quantities needed. they are handmade in limited quatities for everyone. good things come to those who wait.
i hope to have them back next week.
best, b |
mapman, g has a very small room and it is common knowledge that weighted deep bass will do nothing but aggrivate room resonances. the vsm is not made for large rooms and should not be compared to larger floor standing speakers that can go down to dc. it is a highly finnessed thing that can do great magic from 30 up. surely if i wanted to go lower i would not use a 6.5 inch woofer to knock your livingroom into the street. i am after linearity and lack of distortion. still, they can be very impressive in this regard.
it is just my opinion but there is a lot more than coherence going on here. have you ever heard them. new ones sound very different.
"always use the right tool for the right job."
best,
bobby |
m, i asked if you have heard them?
not only would they suffice in a small room and potentially over power it but i have used them in much larger rooms at shows and many ask, "were is the sub or subs?" if you carefully set them up so that the boundary reinforcements embellish the bottom end, you would be surprized what you can get out of them. and this is with no 2nd or 3rd order harmonic distortion in the bass. mf in sterophile had them going down to 26 hz but i was the one who set them up. i use them in an 8000 cubic foot room at the factory and i am sure "you" would be very surprized at what they can do in this regard.
i like bass every bit as much as you do but there is a time and place for the lowest octaves.
best, b |
paul, some people like and undertand how to work with linearity/high res and some do not. some want to hook up anything and have good sound and that is ok. but that should tell you something knowing how different components can sound. cables can show this to an even greater degree.
but do not forget that i stated that there is a cable out there that is about $3 a foot that sounds imho, stupid good for the money. $6000 for cables, no. only if you want champion class sound and are prepared to go that route with the rest of the system. the more that the speakers are capable of, the more careful you have to be.
and mapman, this is not a usual monitor. the woofer has an fs of 28 hz and has a 1 inch excursion. for 99% of moderate rooms this speaker is more than enough. one day you need to hear it and experience its "total" potential.
best, bobby |
i said earlier that you have to hear it properly set up to experience what it can do. without doing this, all comments are speculation. it is not meant for huge rooms. it is designed for more intimate settings where the lowest octave would overpower the room or bigger speakers/room treatments would dominate the appearance. in these intimate settings large wave launch systems would have too much stratification of the output and sound too complicated losing the appeal to most.
use the right tool for the right job.
thank you miker.
b |
imho no.
you should be able to produce about 105 db with 60 watts and a little left in reserve would be good for dynamic peaks. 106 is as loud as a symphony can play but in 3000 cubic feet that is extremely loud even if you have the room damped for reflections relative to the sitting position.
60 or 70 watts is all that is needed for most listening. the vsn 100's are 100 watts a side and great for shows. but remember how loudly i played it with the fila in nyc?
and that was about 2800 cubic feet with a 30 watt amp.
i feel most people are 110% happy with 30 watts.
ok?
best, b |
g has a room that is 12 by 12 so moving the speakers to find a null point or using bass traps are probably out of the question. since small rooms have an abundance of bass reinforcement modes, having a large footprint speaker will also limit him greatly. using the right tool for the right job will get him much farther down the road to musical enjoyment. all this talk about 5% of the bandwidth that is not even there in all of the music or recordings is imho, fruitless. his situation is what it is. now perhaps if he was in a larger room and he personally wanted the lowest octave... he was talking about midrange fullness imo.
b |
m, "A sub can always be added later if needed, but the benefits would likely be marginal as indicated and only with some recordings/music types in a smaller 12X12 room."
was that so hard? thank you!
b |
mapman just wants to grind this out some more.
first of all the mx is notceably leaner than the mxe that the op was asking about and profoundly leaner than the same speaker with a master bam and master rc. to be truly indicative of the potential you have to hear or discuss a current design. however, i really do thank you for your input gaotwuss as you see that there is more to sound than the bottom octave. and if you want more get a sub... that is why i am working on one. you see, i like bass too. :-)
m, i also never said the the vsm was designed for 12 by 12 foot rooms, you did. it thrives in rooms of around 2500 to 3300 cubic feet.
there is a lot of personal taste involved here and we know yours m. why not let it alone. you have not heard them so why comment.
best, b |
goatwuss, my appology. i saw mx as the header and when i re read your post in full i saw that you had mxe's.
sorry about that but you can see why it happened.
best, b |
toudou has vsm mx's.
for those who remember, back in san fran for the 98 sterophile show i used it in a 14 by 14 by 12 cube and the sound was fabulous. then for years in vegas in the 20 by 22 foot room at the alexis. i think it was roon 620 or 622.
most of these should be on the merlin site in the picture gallery. i have been recommending this set up for almost 25 years and it works like a dream. do not boo foo it!
:-)
best, b |
mapman, yes it is true that i am a vendor, i am proud to be one and of my work. have i seen you posting in all maker's threads of mini monitor speakers? why does it seem like you prefer to spout your opinions more in merlin threads? as i said before, use the right tool for the job and if you want the lowest octave get a sub. what is wrong with that???
rarely do you discuss the many attributes of monitors in general. yet you seem to fixate on the lack of bass extention and weight. everyone here knows where your taste falls. as i said you have to hear it to know for sure because anything you say is "mostly" speculation and when you speculate you should say "imho".
your opinion is not a given for everyone.
do you know how many people have told me that their vsms totally over power their room with bass and the sound is unlistenable because of it? i was also at a home recently where an individual had a moderate sized room with speakers that on their own, imho have too much bass and he had two subs hooked up at 120 hz. he asked me what i thought but i did not comment. it takes all kinds i thought.
odds are that you will not like my work if or when you hear it. come to rmaf to room 9014 and hear them for your self. then make comments that are based on first hand knowledge. judging my work based on your dyn's and other similar designs is unfair imho.
best,
b |
if you treat the corners/ceilings for slap echos, carpet the floor, drape or damp the wall behind them and damp primary and immediate reflections on the sides the sound will be killer.
and a square can be turned into something other by firing the speakers down a diagonal.
did this at many shows with superb results.
this is a non issue.
imho.
looks a litle strange at first but...
b |
if you think about it, you are horn loading your system.
no 90 degree surfaces to reflect energy as in a square or rectangular room.
and you can propagate a longer bass wavelength down the diagonal that any other dimension in the room with the speakers anchored to the floor.
if you set it up with a door as a bass vent behind you, now you can even micro tune the room.
some of the very best sound i have every heard came from these types of set-ups.
on day 1 of the sf show i was the only one set up this way and by the end of the show there were 9 rooms like this. news spread quickly.
b |
