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The Sapphire's had that top to bottom neutrality that I found so endearing from my audition of the Temptations, along with excellent driver integration. The midrange was excellent but a touch veiled (only obvious compared to something like a Focal Alto Utopia Be;
what a coincidence, you just happen to own ( or used to own the Focal Alto Utopia Be ) lucky you were able to give your impartial opinion |
Got a chance to listen to the Sapphires yesterday. Setup was a Simaudio Moon CDP, Parasound Pre, Parasound JC-1 monoblocks and Audioquest Mont Blanc cables all around. The Sapphire's had that top to bottom neutrality that I found so endearing from my audition of the Temptations, along with excellent driver integration. The midrange was excellent but a touch veiled (only obvious compared to something like a Focal Alto Utopia Be; but it was likely as good as the midrange on the new Revel speakers which is high praise) and it was amazing how much tight controlled bass Dynaudio was able to coax from that small enclosure and limited number of smaller bass drivers. However, the Sapphires were simply unable to overcome their size and just couldn't go low enough to accurately reproduce piano and they just couldn't make me forget I was listening to speakers in that regard. Overall, at the price, they are a speaker that I think a lot of people will be amazed by. If you factor in the fact that they don't require SOTA gear to sound good, the Dynaudio Sapphire might reasonably be considered an outright bargain depending upon the types of music you listen to. |
I still doubt Dynaudio will stop at a 1,000 pieces. You never leave money on the table and if Dyn see there is a demand for 5,000 pairs of Sapphires they would be smart to think long and hard about continueing the speaker,though with those complex lines,it must be a butt to make. Dynaudio stated the same with the 25th Anniversary speaker,the demand was overwhelming and they kept a version of the speaker in production.
What does Dynaudio expect audiophiles to do that get left out? Buy a C2 or C4? I don't think so,and I hope Dynaudio is smart enough to know that too. |
I hate to say this, but Matteiser is right, wait till you hear the Dynaudio Sapphires. These are some of the most coherent and musical speakers around, plus they actually look good - a big departure from the standard Dynaudio designs. We were listening to them driven by full Plinius electronics and they sounded fantastic, throwing huge soundstage on orchestral music without any hint of dynamic compression. On smaller ensemble music, it was delicate and detailed, producing all the music's nuances.
The reason why I hate to say this is that there are only 1000 pieces made and as of 2 weeks ago, there were only 100+ remaining.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff169/kennrose/ISSE%20Nov07/IMG_0094.jpg |
How are they standing up to newer top end speakers like Focal, Salon, Kharma? |
Just wait until the Dynaudio Sapphire is released. The very meaning of high value high-end will be redefined. :-) |
Tomer_tsin,
Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. Maybe you dont quite understand the nature of business. Stereophile's policy is to remove components from the list that havent been reviewed for a certain amount of time. How is that a good excuse for advertisers? If anything thats a good excuse for Stereophile to coerce advertisers into having to advertise month after month in order to stay on the list.
First off, the Focal tweeter used in the Sophia2 and WP8 is far inferior to the Esotar2 found in the C2, C4, and above. It has noticeable ringing, and doesnt come close to Focal's own Berrylium tweeter. I am also a Focal dealer, and have compared the Sophia2 to the Focal 1037Be side by side.
Wilsons are dynamic and present a wide open soundstage and yet doesnt possess the musical refinement of Dynaudio, not even close. But as with everything, you are entitled to whatever flavor you prefer.
The reason people use MIT and Transparent filtered cables are because they are not listenable unless you roll off some of that top end energy in the Wilson design. The Dynaudio C4s are around 18K/pair retail, the WP8 is over 25K/pair. Now whos "too expensive for sound quality"!
As always, you must listen for yourself and decide. Magazines and forums are great places to gain exposure to new products, but no substitute for a good demo. |
Vsfang, could you compare the sound of the C1 to the WP7 and explain why it appeals to you? |
Tomer
I would like to suggest you to upgrade your amplifier first not the Evidence.
My main system:
Esoteric X-01 D2 + G-0RB
Boulder 1010+1060
W/P system 7
I bought the Dynaudio C1 for second system two months ago(haven't found a proper Int amp for them yet),so I hooked them up to the Boulder. I am really impressed for what I have heard from these little beasts.I now listen to C1 more frequent than W/P 7. |
Matteiser,
Components remove from Stereophile list because "they didn't auditioned in too long time" (good excuse for advertisers).
I think the real reason is because Stereophile's reviewers not sure of rating or even, think it's too expensive for sound quality (sometimes they write it).
I had the C2 for 6 month and listen many times to the C4.
I think the Sophia2 is much better than the C2 and that the W/P system 8, is better than the C4.
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Matteiser,
Thank you for your post. I couldn't agree more. There seems to be some mis-information on this post about the Temptations i.e. sound stage and bass. Maybe as a dealer you could expound on their sound qualities. I think your opinion will carry more weight than mine. |
The Temptations were removed ONLY because Stereophile and TAS hasnt reviewed them recently. In order to stay in the listing, a speaker has to be reviewed every so often. It has nothing to do with the merits of the speaker.
FYI, Im a Dynaudio dealer. Neither the Sophia2 or the WP8 is in the same league as the Temptations from my listening experience. The Sophia2 compares more to the Confidence C2, and the WP8 compares more to the Confidence C4. As always an audition is a must because both brands value different things in terms of sound reproduction. |
I dont know why the Temptations were removed from the special list and not reccomended by Stereophile and TAS anymore. I guess, because they thought the price don't match the sound quality. I don't think the Sophia 2 is in the same league of the Temptation's, but not shure about the W/P System 8. Tall soundstage is one of the most pleasing thing in sound repoduction and one of the big advantages of the Temptation's.
German "Audio" magazine rank the MAXX 2 with 91 points, the Sophia 1 with 99 points and W/P 7 with 101 points. Go figure.
Tomer
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Thanks Tomer, Do you know why they were removed from Stereophile and TAS special list? Maybe just they had not been listened to for some time? I can't imagine anyone buying that the Sophia is a comparable speaker; nor for that matter the WP8. You mention tall soundstage; did it seem unnatural? Did the 2 upper bass drivers stand out? Thanks. I think the German Stereo magazine is 'in love' with Wilson-can't imagine why. Maybe they just like American made? |
Psacanli,
I tried to sell the Temptation's for a year (in my country), without any success. Their height is a problem in Israel and also in the US, but not in Europe.
I was moody when they were taken out from "Stereophile" class A recommended components and also from "Tas" editor's choice awards, in 2006.
At the begining of 2007, Wilson's Sophia 2 got the same rank (98 points) as the Temptations, in the German "Stereo" magazine. 3 month later, the W/P system 8, got 100 points.
I was frightened that Dynaudio will replace tham with a new model.
Despite all that, sometimes I miss my Temptation's very much. I miss their tight, short, quick and accurate bass. Their very natural midrange, transparent and airy treble and very tall soundstage. Their ability to play in very loud sound pressure levels without any felling of strain. They are excellent speakers.
You should also give a listen to Revel's new Ultima Salon2 and Sonus Faber Elipsa, at half the price of the Temptation's.
Tomer
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Thanks Tomer, you make the Temptations sound very good. |
My room is 14' x 18', speakers cable are Transparent Reference XL-MM, interconnect is XLO Limited Edition, power cords are Transparent reference. Beside the Krells I had a few more solid state power amps. I hate the Eidolons spikes and terminals also, the midrange of the Eidolons isn't dynamic or netural as the Temptations midrange. If I had the room, I would buy the ISIS.
Don't get me wrong! The Temptations are the best speakers I had. I'm not shure if the Wilson W/P 8 will be better. One thing for shure; they are shorter.
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Thanks Tomer. May I ask the approximate size of your room? Why did you choose the Temptation over the Eidolons? (I think your Krell may be a big factor in your sound. My experience was that using an MIT Z Stabilizer ll and a Magnum AC 2 power cord made a very nice improvement to Krell and showed detail and musicality in the Krell that was previously hidden. Much better bottom end as well). Now to the seeming crux of the matter, your wife's preferences.
Did she help choose the Temptations? At bthe time did she prefer their sound over others? Also, do you toe in the speakers? Many thanks. |
Thanks Nostrov. I simply want to upgrade to a relatively top line speaker that will work with my current Spectral/MIT system which uses a single 200 watt amp. I couldn't afford to duplicate what's needed for the Megalines-and prefer the simplicity of the basic single amp 2 channel set up I have. I can always upgrade my MIT to the MA over time and I already feel the limiting factor in my present set up is really the basic redbook CD play. I'm seriously 'considering' an upgrade to perhaps the Esoteric X-01 'instead' of a speaker upgrade. Can't afford to do both at this time. I do appreciate your comments on the Megalines. |
Tomer had some nice rec's. To add more fuel to the fire, er I mean, to the list, I'd highly recommend that you listen to the Shindo speakers as well. They're at the same price point approximately as a new pair of temptations and may give you pause.
btw, DeShapiro was dead on with the combo of the Temptations and Boulder amps I heard that combination and have to say it was one of the best sounding setups I've ever heard. Unfortunately, at the time I did not have the 60 or so G's for those amps that that particular combo would have called for. I do think you need a lot of power with the tempations, although "need" is a relative thing. Would they sound ok with lower powered amps? Yes. I would say the amps you should pair them with MUST be extremely refined however and at least somewhat powerful. |
Psacanli,
My name is TOMER.
I realy liked the Temptation's (I didn't get the W/P8 yet), but they didn't overwhelm my room. Sometime I felt they were a little analytical and dry. The bass was very fast and accurate, I liked more bottom-end, dynamic impact and deeper bass extension. The soundstage is tall but a little narrow. the most important thing was that my wife wants shorter speakers in our living room.
I felt that a others companies produce speakers with almost (little less or a litlle more) the same level of sound quality, that cost less money.
For example: B&W 800D, Isophon Cassiano, Lumen White Silver Flame, Avalon Eidolon D, Wilson Benesch Chimera, Watt/Puppy system 8.
My electronics were Krell FPB 400Cx, Theta Generation 8, Accustic Arts drive I. 3 month ago I listened to the Evidence Master with Dynaudio's amp, the sound was good but not excellent.
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Psacanli,
Once again the Dali Megaline is a speaker you should look into if you can afford it. This speaker is in a whole other league then the one's you have listed above (yes including my beloved Temptations).
Lookup Albertporter and ask him about them. He has heard all of the speakers that have been listed and I think he can be very helpful. |
Tower_tsin Thank you. How did they 'show their age'? What electonics did you use with the Temptations? Now that you're settled in with the WP 8s do you find them better and if so how? Thanks for you're suggestions on the other speakers but there is no chance I'll get to hear them and I really wish to stay with large? mainstream manufacturers-Dynaudio,Avalon,Revel,B&W,Kharma,JM Lab, maybe Wilson-probably not, maybe Rockport. Who else is there? |
I had a pair of temptations for 3 years, and liked them very much. I sold them recently because their's height, I also felt they started to show their age...
I replace my Temptation's and solid state electronics with Wilson Watt/Puppy 8 and Audio Research Reference gear.
I recommend you to listen to TAD1, Lumenwhite whitlight "d" and Isophon arabba. I think JBL 66000 are the best speakers for the money.
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"Dynaudio themselves recommend Plinius electronics to pair with their speakers."
Not necessarily, it depends what part of earth you live on. Simaudio is most often the pairing you will see at CES/CEDIA/etc. It is also mated with the Dyn's in the lab for testing purposes. And, in the US and Canada the Simaudio's is what the Reps recommend when becoming a Dynaudio dealer. You will see NAD Masters mated with the Dyn's as well, but not with the Temptations. They deserve better!
Certainly, the Plinius amps will work...I personally love them. As for monoblock power, you do not need 400w/channel or anywhere near....sorry. |
Dynaudio themselves recommend Plinius electronics to pair with their speakers. For the Evidence range, I think you will need to look at the monoblocks.
As an experiment, we also had a go listening to the Sanders ESL Monos driving the Evidence, it was a memorable experience, effortless dynamics and power. The soundstage was large and life-sized. You could consider those amps as well. |
Thanks again Ttowntony. It's good to hear the Temptations are easy to drive and even better to hear the Evo W7 amps are adaquate as the Spectral DMA 180 has quite a bit more power(current). Speaking of power requirements, I once had an electrician monitor the current draw on my dedicated 8 gauge line to the Equitech 2Q balanced transformer that feeds my Spectral system. Playing louder than I would ever want to listen in my room the current draw never exceeded 5 amps. |
The Temptations should do well with your amp, but I have no direct experience with that particular amplifier.
The Temptations are the easiest to drive of all the Dynaudio's and there is lots of info around that fact on the forums. The Temptations do NOT need gobbs of power to make them sing. Do they benefit from it? Sure, they do, but only to a point and it depends on the amp. The Simaudio Evo W7 is only rated at 150w/channel yet I have them hooked to it on an every day basis. The Simaudio's have more in reserve than most have at their rated power specs. |
Thanks Drubin. My experience makes me feel it is the instantaneous unforced natural dynamic swing of live music that primarily sets it apart from the reproduced/recorded. Distortion being the other culprit. |
Thanks Jwaugh. You have valuable experience for me. Avalon Diamonds are the other speakers I am considering as I certainly expect they will work well with the Spectral/MIT I use. Could you comment on the differences you notice between the Diamonds & the Temptations? Can you also address power requirements? I like classical music at levels that allow me to hear subtle details without straining but that don't overpower the room on crescendos. Before going to the Spectral/MIT system I now use I found myself having to adjust the volume on some pieces to either pick up details or tone down climaxes. In fact the clarity and lack of grain in my combo allows me to appreciate many more recordings than I could with inferior gear. I think my ears are more sensitive to distortion than most. ATB. |
Thanks Deshapiro. You mention 'they love powerful SS amps". What would you consider a minimum acceptable power from your experience-keeping in mind a modest 28x15.8x8.8 room and modest classical listening levels of Reference Recordings-which I mention as I find them probably the most demanding due to their exceptional dynamic range & dynamic impact? Could you describe and quantify the improvements you experience with the MBLs? Any downsides? Looking back, are there any improvements to the balance of your set up that you feel would have allowed the Temptations to achieve more, closer to the MBLs? I'm considering the Avalon Diamonds as well as the Dynaudios, any comments? |
Thanks Nrostov, You sound happy with yours, that's great. Amplifier power has come up, would you mind advising how much power you use to drive them? Could you describe the benefits of the Dali Megalines over the Temptations and put into perspective how much benefit there is.Much appreciated. |
Ttowntony, thanks for your continued contribution. I understand your comments on the bass to indicate the Temptations bass is accurate, not excessive or lumpy. As a classical and jazz fan this is exactly what I seek as I find clarity in the lower range adds much depth & detail all around and clean bass provides much better timbre for the drum section as well as cello and bass viol. A much more intimate sound. Again, please comment on the adaquacy of the DMA 180 current. |
Owl,
Thanks for your comments. Resolving and transparent are qualities I seek as I spend most time listening to Classical music and particularly appreciate the string, flute and woodwind sections added detail, nuance and smoothness as resolving improves. I have experience with Krell and think you're right about the influence on your sound. I think low level distortion can 'seem' to add to the soundstage. My ref MIT cables have dramatically enhanced the warmth/fullness and real spaciousness of my system. ATB. |
IMO strong systems don't do anything badly but still only really nail a few elements of live music so we have to decide what brings each of us into the music most effectively. Very well said. It is absolutely true but insufficiently acknowledged. |
Ttowntony, Re you're comments on amplification. I use a Spectral DMA 180 (400W@4ohm and 60 amp peak current)and want my next speakers to be "well" or easily powered by it. To put it another way, my next speakers must be a complement and significant improvement to my existing set up. I won't be upgrading any part of my Spectral/MIT reference system(except possibly to V1.1 or.2 speaker cables) as it pleases me being very musical,transparent and dynamic. The Temptations appear to be an easy effort for the 180s. Am I missing anything. Also,looking at the lateral response curves in the Stereophile reviews it seem the Master is a smoother sounding speaker and even easier to drive, is that your experience? I don't think I should need/use great amounts of power as 80% of my listening is classical, much of that solo or chamber music, most of the balance is jazz, and I just don't listen at extreme volumes. My room is only 27x15.7x8.8 avg ht. I guess the highest current draw may be some drum whacks on Reference Recordings. |
Keep in mind the comparisons IMO. MAXX, Avalon and Kharma throw HUGE soundstages. Avalon has a more distant hall perspective than the others - Kharma in particular throws larger-than-life vibrant images. Temptations are very strong in some of the categories highlighted by responses here but soundstaging would not be one of the first strengths I would mention for them. Incidentally I am not a dealer, I prefer live music to any system by far, and my own preferences for playback of recorded music focus on soundstaging and realistic timbres which I associate with the best tube-driven audio (different perspective from what Ttowntony described quite well as a system to highlight strengths of the Temptations).
IMO strong systems don't do anything badly but still only really nail a few elements of live music so we have to decide what brings each of us into the music most effectively. My brother has and loves his Dyn's for transients, accuracy and bass but my personal preferences run more toward Avalon and Kharma. He wouldn't sell his I am certain because they bring him into his music - nor would I be content with them if they were mine because they don't convey as well what I find so engaging about live music. |
I had a pair of temptations for 2 years, and I really liked them. They performed as everybody so far has described. They love powerful SS amps. I have a combo of Boulder 2060 and an ARC Ref3 pre, which worked very well. I upgraded to MBL 101e's, which are unique, in my experience. Nothing images or soundstages like these. They are truly a you-are-there" speaker in ways that nothing else, IMHO, can match. It is, of course, a matter of taste at these levels.
David |
Wow...I am an owner of a pair of Dynaudio Temptations and I am surprised about some of the things said in this thread.
My Temptations throw a huge soundstage that is not only wide but deep. I mean were talking orchestra hall deep.
Also I am a bass freak and I am so happy with the Temptations. The temptations are the first speaker I have owned that produced clear accurate, natural sounding bass. This is especially impressive considering that my whole system is tube based. I guess if you listen to a lot of Bach fuges then you might want something that goes deeper otherwise I think you will be very happy.
Having said all of that there is one speaker I would upgrade to if I could afford it. The Dali Megalines are the most amazing sounding speaker I have heard. However because of the bi-amping they become too expensive for me.
In the end though I am very happy with my Temptations and will live with them for a long time. So if you are looking for a speaker that can accurately reproduce music with natural sounding instruments then you can't go wrong with these speakers. |
What Owl has said is true to some extent, but he has also said some of this is due to room and the acoustics within. Still, these are his impressions and should be considered. Afterall, he did live with the Temptations and that speaks volumes over anyone else that has not.
The Tempatations are extremely accurate and transparent and this is exactly what appeals to most. If there is one thing I could point out that might not appeal to all would be in the low end frequencies. I do however feel the Temptations do not add or take away from the original recording and resolve exactly what the mastering engineer intended to be heard on the track. Given the right amount of current these have no problem producing heart-pounding bass that is clean and in control. Let's face it, though. Some just love bass and there are other speakers that do just that....produce bass. However, they often sacrifice things in other areas. I do have one of these types of customers and we ended up adding Dynaudio Sub500 stereo subs to the mix. Once the subs were dialed in the first track played was Dire Straits - Money for Nothing. Good God it was impressive! I've yet to hear anything like it. One might say it was a bit over the top. But, the experience, I would be happy to do it all over again. |
I moved Temptations for Kharmas then Wilson Maxx2's and was pretty happy about the moves although the Tempations are magnificent at what they do well. The Temptations were very resolving but just not doing it with my (at the time) Krell 750mcx monoblocks. They were just very aggressive sounding and dry but perhaps it was the all krell kps28 cd player, kct pre and 750 combo with Tara the one speaker cable. Cast? Forget it - even more thin and aggressive. Also, if you are looking for speakers to throw and image outside the physical speakers then look elsewhere. Both the Kharmas and Maxx2's threw a stage wider than the speaker setup and more depth, which IMO the Dynos just did not do. I did regret not giving it a longer try just a little and perhaps trying hi powered tube amps like VTL, etc. which I think would have produced more body. I also do recall not hearing much in the way of bass in my room, but that may be the fault of my room which at the time leaked bass like crazy.
In fairness the The Temptations, they are incredibly resolving and transparent, even more so than the Wilsons or Kharmas. They can tend to lean and dry as the beach with the wrong gear however, so even more so than normal you need to have very high powered amps and front end that are resolving yet have not grain, has and lean toward full bodied, very settled sound IMO. You can tame some of the nasties with something like Transparent cables I would guess if you decide to go with SS but then that is a different set of issues ... |
Hello, a Dyn dealer here. I have yet to have a customer who bought the Temptations from us that have wanted or changed to another speaker. It is my opninion there isn't a better speaker. Some may think differently in the audio world. But, when properly setup I've yet to see anyone not grin from ear-to-ear when we fire them up.
Along the way what we have done is upgraded their amplification and source components, though. If you are seriously looking at the Temptations or Masters, I highly recommend quality solid state amplification. To me there is no better combo than the Simaudios with the Dyn's, but I also really like the new Krell Evo's.
The Temptations do not require crazy overpriced speaker cables. However, I do recommend quality cables upstream for the components.
Hope that helps. If you have any other question, just let us know. |
