@brbrock i made alot of mistakes along the way. I do not feel that way about the 006 . Now regarding the innuos, I have been streaming from my laptop listening with YouTube music. Not the best quality but the kids seem to like it. I have ordered the pulsar with I2s with the Phoenix net switch. I’m hopping this is it. ( some how I doubt it) I have two new pieces comming in that i have been waiting on for almost a year. Response audio, the harmonia DHT output source switch, and Bill who designs and builds them has modified to accommodate a 300B , 2A3/ 45 tube by inserting an adjustable heater for the tube. All source components Dac,CD, turntable, tape all go through the DHT and absorb the harmonics into the preamp He, also said it can be used as preamp, the other product I’m waiting on is a completely costome unit and is the reason why I have been waiting . It is 300WPC Ganfet class D power amp with a DHT tube 300B/ 2a3 that stays in the circuit the entire time. I’m expecting delivery in the next month or so.
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@shmeet That is quiet an upgrade from a Geshelli to a Musetec006 and an innuos Pulsar.
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@shmeet As @sns suggested, you should ask if they will send both and allow you to return one.
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Hi I emailed innuos the same question, with the Dac model#
and they acknowledge that the usb implantation is good on the 006, but he was inclined to say that I2s may sound better as iit has a direct path to the DAC chip, but can’t say for certain which would sound better.
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The Innuos usb module uses OXCO clock, I2S two Femto clocks, who can say which is better. I can only tell you I prefer I2S input on 006, this with Denafrips Gaia and Tubulus cable. Without direct experience with your intended setup how can I or anyone tell you which is preferable. I'd suggest you try to audition both modules, based on your expenditure the dealer should be amenable.
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Hello all, new owner of the 006 Dac, it has been a big upgrade from the geshelli j2s, question i have is, I'm ordering the innuos pulsar streamer, and you can choose a digital output module, I have also ordered the network switch to go with it. Between i2s and usb wich would be a better long term upgrade?
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Following up on what dbb said, I think all of us have had our 006s go through a "dumb phase " (to borrow a phrase from the wine world) where the DAC goes up and down. I had some moments of harshness and vocal sibilance, which have completely disappeared.
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@brbrock I have not seen your thread where you said the 006 might be fatiguing, but just to be clear, I briefly was bothered by certain high frequency sounds like violins during break-in being harsh. This passed. My final conclusion is that I have never heard better sound coming out of my system. I have used a lot of space describing how wonderful the 006 sounds. I am in agreement with @sns and @car123 on the astounding quality of the 006.
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brbrock, I said that my current streaming setup is the best digital I have ever had and that it rivals and perhaps bests my vinyl, although source quality has everything to do with what sounds best, as I expect you know. Some records are not bettered by their streaming counterparts, and vice versa, because of source quality.
My benchmark for comparison is vinyl, which is what I listened to primarily for many years.
I have a CEC transport and used a John Wright hot rodded musetec bidat for many years, prior to entering the streaming world 3-4 years ago. The bidat is a redbook DAC known for its analog like qualities.
My contemporary DAC experience includes Aurender A10 (passed on to friends), Rose 250 (second system), 005 (sold) and now 006.
What DACs have you used? What is the rest of your system comprised of? How is your room? Your power?
If your 006 is harsh, I fully agree with sns that it is probably an issue elsewhere in your system. Specific to streaming, I can say with certainty that I would not be hearing what I am hearing out of my 006 without my sonore optical moat, the signal and power cables I have in place, or my gaia. I have tried the 006 without same.
Of course, I would not achieve my current level without my power conditioning, room treatment, rack systems, other components, and a whole lot of tuning and tweaking.
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@car123 Same with me, tried async a couple times early on. The difference easily heard within seconds/minutes, smaller sound stage, less spaciousness, this to the point I've never bothered to explore further.
@brbrock Noticed thread you started where you mentioned 006 might be too fatiguing. Where did you get this impression? I can't imagine a highly resolving dac being less analytical, more forgiving. @dbb had issues early on, don't know where he's at with 006 today. Don't recall seeing a single review anywhere on interweb stating 006 fatiguing. Some may project certain sound qualities on Sabre chip dacs, implementation is key. I did same projection on R2R prior to my Laiv Harmony, lower resolution, laid back, no excitement, this not true.
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@car123 You say this is the best DAC you have had in your system. Can you tell me what you have had before.
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Just spent an hour in the sweet spot, sounding absolutely amazing. Definitely sweetening, softening, focusing even more.
I tried async when I first fired up gaia and 006 but haven't tried it since. Sync was better out of the gate and I'm still using the gaia clock.. You are as well, aren't you?
What I'm hearing is truly astonishing. I've never heard my system sound better.
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@car123 What I find most enlightening is we both have very nice vinyl setups and our nearly exact same digital setups are competing very favorably with those vinyl setups, goes to show how far digital and/or streaming has come.
Now, one thing I've been meaning to ask. Have you compared internal clock in 006 to Gaia clock (sync vs async), and what are your findings?
Sound quality still evolving for me, somewhere between 300 and 400 for both Gaia and Tubulus, I decided to just listen to burn in sometime back. Decay's and harmonic development are most noticeable changes. With both decay and attack coming into equilibrium along with more colorful harmonics presentation is even more analog like. Last night I was envisioning an analog waveform and how digital tries to recreate this via sampling and interpolation, Gaia clocking and inherent qualities of 006 combining to make a much more believable clone of that waveform, not so much chopped up and individual samples, rather a continuous and uninterupted wave.
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I've got perhaps a dozen hours on the tubulus, and less on the new optical module deluxe, but I can assuredly say that my system has reached new heights--new levels of detail and resolution with even more involvement than ever before. Some of the challenges we sometimes face when chasing extreme resolution is the loss of involvement with the music, cookie cutter imaging, harshness, and other features we label digititis. My system is displaying none of those symptoms. Attack and decay sound real. It is very easy to pick out every expression and nuance contained in a recording. Yet, I find myself drawn into the music and able to let it wash into me without focusing on every little detail, yet the details are there.
The tubulus cable seems to bring more of these positive qualities but with a lot of subtly. It replaced a wireworld silver starlight, no slouch, but the tubulus is already better. It was worth the cost to me. YMMV. And I look forward to continuing evolution as the cable and the rest of the system keeps settling together. I do feel the 006 and gaia are mostly stabilized with at least 400 hours of running time.
I did run the system for a short period of time without my optical moat in place. I moved a few components around. It was a big disappointment running ethernet straight into my aurender. I lost many of the good qualities that are present with the moat in place.
Optimizing streaming can be daunting and expensive with much trial and error required. However, it is definitely worth the effort.
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@dbb I was just curious and couldn't find it on the website. I am comparing a few DAC's and this is one of them..
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@brbrock In case you haven't seen tech and specs, http://www.mu-sound.com/DA006_detail.html Based on internal photos and sound quality/performance I'd suggest 006 isn't lacking in this respect. Resolution and dynamics, both micro and macro are top notch. Beyond that capacitance is only one aspect of dac performance, 006 reaches far above it's cost in overall tech and quality of parts. I've seen far more expensive dacs with less tech.
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IMO, it would depends on power consumption. I do not think the numbers are that critical for a DAC as other power hungry electronics, like an amp or a music server doing upsampling duties. On the contrary, there is point for most low power consumption devices, where adding more caps becomes redundant. It’s more important that a power supply has low ripple noise, low impedance and the caps has low esr. Given what Musetec designer have achieved with 005 (I don’t have the 006), I am pretty certain that the designer has this part squared out correctly. So if you don’t see a gazillion of caps, like Denafrips DAC, you can be rest assured there is no shortage of it either.
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In layman words the bigger the better the cleaner. Also if you can get it away from the other electronics the better.
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Just curious, why does the amount of capacitance matter in a DAC ?
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How much capacitance does the 006 have? I looked at the website and can't find it.
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sns, nice vinyl rig. I forgot to mention I already have finisar spf1475 installed in the sonores.
I'm heading to my dedicated room for a listen.
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@wombat79 Comparisons are always informative, 006 does reach far above it's cost.
@car123 Nice vinyl setup, I've heard most of your equipment at shows. Says a lot that you feel Musetec competes or surpasses it. Same vs my vinyl setup consisting of completely restored Technics SP10MkII in 100lb custom plinth, Jelco TK-3850L tonearm, Korf headshell Audio Technica AT-Art9XA, Zavfino Gold Rush cable, Thoress phonostage. Always thought I'd have to pay more than 006 cost for digital to surpass my vinyl. With Tubulus cable you're in for icing on the cake. Y
You can further upgrade the Sonore optical with Finisar SFP1475 transceivers, further lowering of noise floor meaning greater resolution/transparency, good bang for the buck with these.
@brbrock While I haven't heard the May KTE or Mystique X I've closely watched reviews over the years. I've seen a number of KTE comparisons to my Laiv Harmony, seem to have similar performance, preference varies between the two. So, if this true 006 will outperform both with higher resolution, presentation certainly can't be faulted with Harmony or 006. I suspect top of the line Mystique X SE would provide superior resolution to Harmony and KTE with similar presentation. I really don't think you can go wrong with any of these dacs. While I don't need two dacs and find 006 slightly superior I can't bring myself to sell Harmony, its that good. For me 006 only reaches it's full potential with i2S via Gaia and Tubulus cable. Via usb I slightly preferred Harmony presentation to 006, so for me I2S necessary for 006.
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@car123 @sns I have been following this thread for awhile. I am looking for a good DAC and this has been one that I have been checking out. I have also been looking at the Holo Audio May KTE and Mojo Audio Mystique X. Has any of you had a chance to compare these. They are 2 different types both with great reviews.
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I continue to be impressed with the 006/gaia combination as it keeps positively evolving at around 250-300 hrs. Microdynamics, detail, resolution and soundstage are truly off the charts while also allowing profound involvement with the musical performances. There is nothing "digital" about the musical presentation. Rather, the system allows even more of an immersive experience than ever before. I agree with sns that my digital system rivals or perhaps surpasses my vinyl rig (tw acustic raven, graham phantom, benz ebony lp, steelhead.)
Listen to I'm With Her performing Crescent City, it is extremely easy to locate Sara, Sarah, and Aoife arrayed before you. In fact, many I'm With Her songs are good tests of the resolution of your system, and the ladies are astonishing talents.
Another of my favorite test songs is Guy Clark performing The Dark. His band is filled with amazingly talented musicians. I love to listen to Darrell Scott playing rhythm in the right channel and Verlon Thomas playing lead in the left channel.
In the last several days, also swapped out a cisco switch for a second sonore opticalRendu deluxe as part of my "optical moat" and it had profound positive effects.
I'm extremely happy with the system and look forward to continued break in as well as receipt of my tubulus cable.
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My name is Jacob, a week ago I got together with 3 other friends for a comparative test between a Cen Grand dsdac1.0 Deluxe and the Musetec 006. The comparison lasted a whole weekend where we compared the 2 dacs with different amplifiers, headphones and speakers ( each brought their own electronics ) for a total of 4 headphone amps, 5 headphones, 3 speaker amps and 3 pairs of speakers.
The connections, as the Cen Grand does not have the i2s output, were made with aes ebu and usb, with identical cables for both. Obviously the 2 dacs fully broken in, the Musetec with over 600 hours and the Cen Grand with about 400 so we started listening.
At the end of the comparison we determined unequivocally that the overall winner was the Musetec. The mid-bass is epic, legendary, the layering and headstage are superior to the Cen Grand while on the mid-high the comparison was more uncertain, with more similarities than differences. Also considering the cost, the Musetec came out as the winner hands down.
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When I first installed Gaia was using an inferior power cord and sitting on stock feet. Added one of my diy power cords (these replaced pc's up to $7k throughout system) and placed on Stillpoints, easily heard improvement.
I wish everyone with Musetec or Laiv Harmony dac could hear these dacs with Gaia via I2S, extracting max potential from these dacs is well worth it!
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I'm fairly certain I will hear the difference with the tubulus and will report my impressions when it arrives.
In incorporating the 006 and gaia, I temporarily downgraded the power cord on my N200 just out of convenience. This morning, I went back to one of my better power cords on the N200 and was quite shocked at the improvement even though I know the difference cords can make.
It reinforces that everything matters.
The system is sounding exceptional.
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@car123 I haven't been keeping close track to hours recently but somewhere around 350 for Gaia and 250 for Tubulus and sound continues to evolve. Mostly gains in harmonic structure and more natural attack and decay. Mostly what I love with my present setup is the honesty of how it portrays each and every recording. Sometimes I can perceive my setup as sounding just a bit darkish, but then I play a recording with more air up top and that perception disappears. Same with all other parameters of sound quality, recordings should be presented in the exact manner they were recorded.
Very interested in hearing your perceptions of Tubulus cable, some claim they don't hear differences with I2S cables, I easily heard difference from my initial I2S cable.
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Very quick update, the system continues to evolve for the better at about 200hrs on the 006 and Gaia. Incredible detail and stage but the sound, particularly vocals, continues to develop more realism and involvement.
I’m very happy with the upgrade and look forward to receiving my tubulus and a few other upstream changes I'm going to try.
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@sns Thank you very much for a comprehensive reply. I think I will go with 006, for the reasons you mention and also because by the time I have factored in shipping from US to UK, customs clearance, VAT (UK - 20%) and all the rest, the price difference vs. getting a 006 from the European importer/representative is well below $1000. So much for 'free trade'.
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Why I agree with the reasons given to purchase the 005 vs 006, the advantage of purchasing the 006 now is future upgrades would likely reveal the greater potential of 006. While you'd not likely hear the greater resolving/transparency of 006 in the near term its likely you would in longer term. The other major benefit of 006 vs 005 for me is the more analog like presentation, its simply a more forgiving dac even while providing greater resolution/transparency, and this even via usb. I've owned 004,005,006 and each was successively superior in this regard to the previous.
If I were in your shoes I'd not purchase the Gaia yet, Gaia is for a very mature streaming setup, like icing on the cake. I very well remember the Audiomecca equipment, that cd transport was right at the top of the list when I did an upgrade back in the day, ended up with Mark Levinson No. 37. Took quite some time for my streaming setup to beat out playing cd's via the Levinson. Amazed your transport has survived this long, it was a sad day when ML died, never could replicate it's sound with any subsequent transports, expedited my move into streaming.
As for streamers, good luck. With so many people advocating for so many choices I'd be totally confused if I were a newbie. I'm one who advocates for every to crossed, i dotted so its been mostly diy route for me. Personally, when I was looking at off the shelf servers, Antipodes was at the top of the list, pretty costly though. Lots of people like Aurrender, others Innuos. I also like Small Green Computer, I use some of Sonore equipment, they have a pretty nice server as well. At a more reasonable price the EverSolo seem to be getting pretty good reviews.
Rather than ripping your cd's to internal drive on streamer, consider NAS, I run a Synology for my over 3k rips. This will open you up to a lot more choices in streamers, many don't provide for internal storage. Good luck.
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I'm starting to remember that feeling...
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Yes, that's Jason's company. He's a great guy, straight shooter, very good to deal with. The 005s are great, similar to the 006 but just a little less of everything. I was extremely happy with mine and my system is extremely good, I just got upgradeitis.
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Yes, they seem to be posted for sale on Audio Mart (or at least - there is an Indiana-based ad there by 'Midwest Audio'). Half price vs. the 006... back to the thinking board!
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If you want an 005, you could contact Jason Walker in Indiana, the US dealer. He has a couple used 005s, including my old black one. It's a great DAC.
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Perhaps look at a used 005 if you don't plan to upgrade the rest of the system. The 006 (and the 005) definitely benefit from superb associated equipment. But you can get a used 005 for quite a bit less than a new 006. And, you might not hear the differential gains of the 006 vs the 005 given the rest of the system.
I agree with dbb re the gaia.
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@dbb Thanks for the welcome, and for the opinion.
The little upgraditis devil that has returned to sit on my shoulder after many year says "yes, but... what if you took this as an opportunity to get the rest up to scratch?" And TBH it sounds very good - I went for a listening session of a Chord Hugo TT2 carrying pre and speakers, and was not convinced by the Chord - on the other hand, the dealer was impressed by the sound of 30-45 year old stuff.
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@dlevi67
Welcome to the forum.
Based on the sound you are looking for (“. . . both analytical and synthetic abilities: I want to be able to hear individual instruments or voices _if I want to,_ but I also need to hear the overall musical piece and how it hangs together.”), I would say the 006 would fit your taste beautifully. But, as you suggest, you can’t fully appreciate a near state of the art DAC with dinosaur equipment. My opinion is if you have no plans to modernize your system go with a cheaper DAC. I see no reason to consider the Gaia for the same reason.
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Gentlefolk,
First post here - Happy (late) New Year to all!
A couple of questions if I may - particularly to @car123 @sns @dbb as you have first-hand experience of the Musetec 006, but input from others is more than welcome.
CONTEXT:
I have to replace my lovely and long-serving LFD Dac III (bought new 1996), as it has developed a strange form of electromagnetic allergy to the pre-amp (even longer serving Stax CA-X, dated 1978).
The rest of the system is equally vintage: Stax DA-80 power amp (1978), Audiomeca Mephisto CD transport (1993; re-clocked) and Sonus Faber Electa Amator speakers (1995). There is a Behringer Ultramatch used as a DDC/upsampler between the transport and the DAC, as it seems to sound better. Richard Sachek silver cables throughout, except for digital cables which are a mix of Audioquest and home-made high quality but not esoteric stuff.
Not streaming anything at the moment, but I may start doing so, and mainly listening to classical (90%) and jazz (10%).
A 'good' system in my book provides both analytical and synthetic abilities: I want to be able to hear individual instruments or voices _if I want to,_ but I also need to hear the overall musical piece and how it hangs together. For 30 years, the old dinosaurs have delivered that to me.
QUESTIONS:
1) I am seriously considering the Musetec 006, largely on the basis of the strengths illustrated in this thread, which is about 95% of all the information I can find on the internet. Budget is fine - but am I deluding myself that the rest of the system will actually use it? Or should I set my sights on something significantly cheaper? (The DAC 3 had a great reputation 30 years ago, to the point that it is still saleable for >$1000, at least in the UK).
2) To Gaia or not to Gaia? At some point in the next year or so, I will begin transferring my ~2000 CDs onto some sort of music server, and I will start purchasing hi-res tracks as it's often cheaper to buy those than new CDs. Considering this, is it worth investing in a 'universal' bridge like the Gaia now - as it seems to benefit the sound regardless of the need for a DDC (lower jitter? I²S format?) or should I rather wait and see what my server and streaming infrastructure looks like?
Apologies for the long post, and thanks in advance for your wisdom!
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Great, the added ease and refinement you're hearing is a function of both 006 and and the I2S conversion via Gaia and Tubulus cable. While resolution/transparency is improved slightly with the I2S setup, I never experienced the vinyl like presentation prior to Gaia.
I felt 006 break in pretty much attained at around 350-375 hours, my Gaia and Tubulus lkely less than fully burned at something between 275-350 hours.. I've been hearing very consistent sound quality for over a month, surmise there won't be much change here on out.
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Quick update, I've got about 150-200 hours on the 006/Gaia combination. Things are settling in. I'm noticing a developing sense of increasing ease and coherence to go along with the incredible detail, soundstage and distinct vocal and instrument placement that has been present since startup. It surpasses the 004 and prior DDC by a good bit. But, I believe there is more to be gained based on my recollection of break in with the 005, which continued to develop in its musicality and its ability to draw the listener in for probably about 600 hrs or perhaps more.
I'm definitely enjoying the new combination and look forward to continuing positive evolution as well as my tubulus cable.
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I ordered an argentus. I couldn't talk myself into a ximius.
I agree it's likely some sort of wiring issue. I'm not going to worry about it for now. And as I said, I couldn't hear a SQ difference switching the LRCK pin configuration. I'll do more discerning analysis after I get a couple hundred more hours on the units.
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Seems to me issue you're having most likely pin wiring issue within Gaia or 006, suspect this to be non issue in regard to sound quality. May want to try another example of Gaia or 006 if it remains bothersome.
What Tubulus model did you order? Patience was key, but didn't feel exactly deprived with the previous $70 I2S cable. Not to say the Tubulus wasn't an easily heard upgrade.
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The joule gear is excellent, I had an LA 100 first generation and am sorry I sold it. It was magical with my music reference RM 10. I still have an LA 150, which is in storage. The La 300 ME is quite a bit better than the 150.
I also had rites of passages and let them go. I swapped my VZN 80 with my brother. I actually prefer my first watt sit-3, it’s quite an amazing amp.
RIP Judd, he was a good man.
I’m really not hearing any difference changing the LRCK pin configuration. But, I haven’t really sat down and listened critically. I’m concentrating on run in.
I did order a 1/2 meter tubulus today. Sounds like it will take 3 or 4 weeks to receive the cable. Patience...
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Misspoke, meant to say phase, memory of that issue came from my Joule. Back in that period of time was using highly modded Merlin VSM, Bobby and Judd's creations were very sympatico.
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If this messing with timing I'd expect you'd hear the difference when changing pin configuration.
Cool, running Joule Electra. I ran LA-100 MKIII some years ago, swapped all the stock Solen caps for Jantzen Z Superior coppers on signal board, Jantzen's really upped the game. RIP Judd.
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