2. amps-preamps
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Financial Limits of Tube and Op Amp Rolling

Yesterday I watched a YouTube reviewer review the Apos Gremlin. While he did talk about the Gremlin, the review was as much about tube rolling as it was about the Gremlin. Sorry. For those not acquainted with the device, I should have stated that the Gremlin is an entry level headphone amp that the retailer, Apos, collaborated on (I don't recall who the collaboration was with). Let me set the table. When I say entry-level I'm talking about a roughly 5"x3" device with an acrylic base and top (the four sides are open) and separated with brass colored standoffs, that is 100% balanced (no SE inputs or outputs), spartan HPA that is shipped with Ray Core Tubes for $120. Yes, $120. This is not meant to be a knock on the Gremlin. I have it and like it a lot. I like it better than my Woo Audio WA3 as far as tube HPAs go.

My befuddlement was because the reviewer was rolling matched sets of tubes (the Gremlin takes two 12AU7 tubes) that cost more than the Gremlin itself. Multiple sets of tubes costing more than the Gremlin. Is it just me? Am I the only one that thinks that there is something wrong with spending more on the tubes than you spend on the device that you're putting them in? I'm including op amp rolling because I've seen reviewers do the same thing with op amps. Why? To me, if I were going to spend that kind of money ($150-$200) rolling tubes, I would first spend more on the device. I'm thinking roughly, at a minimum, $800.

In my mind I can't justify spending more than about 1/4 of the cost of the device rolling tubes or op amps. What is the utility of spending more on rolling than you do in the device? Does it seem like a logical way to spend your money? Is it less about the practicality and more about the experimentation? That's the only thing that comes to mind.  I'm not doubting that you can make sonic improvements, or at least sonic differences, via rolling, but to me it's not a logical act in how they are investing money in doing so.

Sorry for the rant. I just had to say something after watching that review. But seriously, I want to know how others feel about how much to spend rolling tubes and op amps. What are your thoughts on the financial limits? Do yo have a limit? What is your limit?

Thanks.

mcraghead

Showing 1 response by triton20trx

triton20trx
27 posts
 

This is my experience.

when I had the Rogue Cronus Magnum I swapped out all the preamp tubes with the help of Brent at Brent Jessee Recording, look him up on line.  I spent $467 on 5 NOS tubes from the ‘50s and ‘60s. The sound of the amp changed to such a degree I believe I would have had to at least $3000 more on an amp to get to the same place.  
 

I change the 2 gain tubes in my PrimaLuma EVO 400 from the PrimaLuna branded Chinese tubes to a top end NOS Aperex 7316 and received better bass, expanded and smoother highs, a larger soundstage (both width and depth). I only spent $750.These were also a recommendation from Brent.  Again the benefits far exceeded the cost.

 

But there is no way the manufacturers can put these in from the factory.  One is cost the other is availability of NOS tubes, which get more scarce all the time.  But there is one advantage to old stock tubes and thats durability.  Reputable tube sellers have a reasonable return policy.

Thats been my experience, but I would not have attempted it with out expert advice and a reputable tube seller I could talk to.

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