Financial Limits of Tube and Op Amp Rolling


Yesterday I watched a YouTube reviewer review the Apos Gremlin. While he did talk about the Gremlin, the review was as much about tube rolling as it was about the Gremlin. Sorry. For those not acquainted with the device, I should have stated that the Gremlin is an entry level headphone amp that the retailer, Apos, collaborated on (I don't recall who the collaboration was with). Let me set the table. When I say entry-level I'm talking about a roughly 5"x3" device with an acrylic base and top (the four sides are open) and separated with brass colored standoffs, that is 100% balanced (no SE inputs or outputs), spartan HPA that is shipped with Ray Core Tubes for $120. Yes, $120. This is not meant to be a knock on the Gremlin. I have it and like it a lot. I like it better than my Woo Audio WA3 as far as tube HPAs go.

My befuddlement was because the reviewer was rolling matched sets of tubes (the Gremlin takes two 12AU7 tubes) that cost more than the Gremlin itself. Multiple sets of tubes costing more than the Gremlin. Is it just me? Am I the only one that thinks that there is something wrong with spending more on the tubes than you spend on the device that you're putting them in? I'm including op amp rolling because I've seen reviewers do the same thing with op amps. Why? To me, if I were going to spend that kind of money ($150-$200) rolling tubes, I would first spend more on the device. I'm thinking roughly, at a minimum, $800.

In my mind I can't justify spending more than about 1/4 of the cost of the device rolling tubes or op amps. What is the utility of spending more on rolling than you do in the device? Does it seem like a logical way to spend your money? Is it less about the practicality and more about the experimentation? That's the only thing that comes to mind.  I'm not doubting that you can make sonic improvements, or at least sonic differences, via rolling, but to me it's not a logical act in how they are investing money in doing so.

Sorry for the rant. I just had to say something after watching that review. But seriously, I want to know how others feel about how much to spend rolling tubes and op amps. What are your thoughts on the financial limits? Do yo have a limit? What is your limit?

Thanks.

mcraghead

Showing 1 response by dogearedaudio

With a device as simple as the Gremlin, you’re pretty much relying on the quality of the tubes to deliver the best sound.  You certainly won’t get that with bottom-dollar, poorly-matched, poorly-constructed, noisy, microphonic 12AU7s.  In fact, I’d say there’s something rather elegant about a tube-based device that pretty much relies on the quality of the tubes themselves to deliver best performance.  So it costs $120.  You could cheap out on tubes and get $120 worth of sound, or spend $500 on tubes and end up with a unit that sounds like it cost $620 instead $120.

Let’s say I build a simple RCA 12AX7 phono preamp. I use inexpensive but well-matched components--film caps, resistors, a Hammond power transformer.  About twenty parts in all!  Cost about $200.  What’s going to sound better, cheap Chinese tubes or Telefunkens?  The answer seems obvious.  Now let’s say I spend $1500 on a Hashimoto power transformer, teflon capacitors, Takman resistors, etc.  Will it sound better?  Maybe.  But with cheap Chinese tubes, the preamp will still sound mediocre.  So basically I’ve wasted $1300 on fancy passives by cheaping out on the one device that actually makes a significant difference--the 12AX7.

The same goes for the amps and preamps I actually do build.  I can tell you that the tubes I recommend make a bigger difference in the value of those components than any amount of money I could charge for Duelund caps or amorphous-core output transformers.  Cheap Chinese KT66s produce less power and more distortion than the more expensive Gold Lions.

Dennis Had doesn’t use fancy components in his Inspire amps.  He uses good ones that do the job and don’t get in the way of the sound.  It’s up to you to decide whether that amp sounds just okay or wonderful, depending on how much you’re willing to spend on the tubes.