families of audio concepts, mixing, and listening


Hi all,

I've been reflecting on the recent revival of high-efficiency horn speakers with low-power amps -- helped, no doubt, by Klipsch's revival of its heritage collection of designs -- and I have a question about what I see are families of innovations, each with their own tradeoffs. 

The older system was, very basically, low-power, simple, linear amplification, driving loudspeaker-cabinet designs that provided mechanical efficiency, whether through horns, the gain provided by a wider baffle, or some combination thereof. But the frequency response was, let's say, lumpy.

The newer system: minimum-baffle tower or monitor designs with high-power, low-distortion sold-state amps to push out air from really strong, small, high-excursion woofers that do a better job, at least in terms of frequency response. 

So, first of all, is that basically right? 

I grew up with the latter designs reigning supreme, early 80s on. I never gave the older designs a chance. My dad had a 10-watt solid-state serving speakers he built himself, an 10" woofer in a 30" "tower" design with a plastic Realistic supertweeter on top. It sounded like you might expect. My friends parents put their JBLs on the floor behind the sofas. Then well-to-do friends' parents got Missions and big NADs or Denons and rocked out clean, loud sound, just in time for CDs, right around the time when people stopped listening to music.  

Now I'm hearing all manner of chatter from audio cognoscenti about how we need to give horns and vintage-style $4k JBLs or better-priced Wharfedale Vintons another chance. As cynical as I can be about such turns of the wheel of audio fortune, I wonder about an earlier, formative marketing push for high-power, minimum-baffle, crystalline perfection ready for the digital age. 

I've heard Klipsch Heresy's in a San Francisco dive bar and f$%^ if it doesn't play rock. I've heard AR3s in Montreal record shops. They aren't linear; they are chesty. The bass sounds right, or if it's wrong, I don't care.  

My current setup is Vandersteen 2ce Signature with 2wq sub and  Pass X150 X1 Pre. The bass is great, just great. The midrange I am having trouble with, probably room-associated. I think it's versatile and lovely, playing indie rock, jazz beautifully and classical ok. But it's certainly minimum-baffle, low-efficiency design (Yes, time-and-phase-coherent, etc., but lets leave that aside from this basic taxonomy for now).

So what's my question? 

Do I owe to myself to find a dealer who can show me a good version of the old way, not so much tube. vs. solid state, but one type of system vs. another, each with its own tradeoffs? What are those tradeoffs? 

Finally, on the mixing side of the equation: if most hi-fis back in the 60s and 70s were large, wide-baffle speakers, high efficiency, with their chesty bass, wouldn't studios have EQed for such systems? If so, do we need one system for 1950s-70s music and one for 80s to the present?  Or,  gasp, introduce equalizers and modelers to help us understand how it was supposed to sound at the time the recording was made? Audio purity aside, would that not be the more scientific approach? 

Just a fun question. Please no Comic-Book-Guy responses. 

Much love from the COVID Bubble. 

Paul.



paulburnett

Showing 4 responses by tomic601

But for fun check out the Vandersteen pistonic motion utube video. Cool German laser scanner of cones fed a test signal and one popular super expensive midrange driver is out of phase to the input half the time.

perhaps we can agree that out of phase behavior is NOT in the original signal ( music ) ????

so many are left with inaccurate, but I like it....

that laser scanner is ruthless and expensive... I am thinking of buying one and loaning time on it to speaker designers... who care...

fun


Another myth is nobody cares about quality now - utter rubbish ( well maybe the pressing plants, but that is a different story )
there are labels , recording engineers, studios and producers who do care try Chesky, Blue Note, ECM, 2L.....

what you did have before serious multi track Rock and to similar effect w classical and multi miking a MUCH simpler recording chain.... 8 tracks on RtR were rare, so mixers were small, mostly tube and high quality ribbon microphones everywhere...

want some of that now ? Check out Macy Gray, Amber Roubarth, Gillian Welch on Acony... they and hundreds more of them care....
BTW a large baffle results in flatter frequency response BUT destroys time and phase information, your ear is more sensitive to time and phase, your wallet loves flat frequency response...
you can get both, few do it.... it’s difficult 
Get as close to neutral and time and phase correct with low distortion as you can and then because the monitor used and mixing/ mastering philosophy and car audio / FM requirements/ early LP bass tracking failure all screwed up sound.... and then add a few value added tone controls and stereo mono blend and a few other tricks to get back to music not hi-Fi. The mono stereo blend is for the Blue Note crowd...
the above paragraph could have been written by the guy who designed your subs and speakers... he is working on it.. He has a Cello Pallete - think of that on steroids...
otherwise buy about 5 pair of speakers... including the horns, planers,  Vandys, Ribbons, line arrays, monitor season jour: JBL, Genelec, etc.... but that’s won’t fix L/R
iF you can’t wait get a Mac preamp with some of those features ( almost all not on the remote )
btw using the Vandersteen 7 to master an album later this month....
have fun, enjoy the music
jim