End to All Power Problems


Has anyone heard of Bloom Energy? It's a new technology that many tech companies are now using to generate power off of the grid.

It takes methane (or another similar fuel) and uses fuel cells to chemically convert fuel to power. Check out the 60 minutes segment on it, pretty amazing. I think it could be a huge paradigm type shift for the entire country.

It actually works, and they are hoping to be able to get the cost down to $3000 per house. No more power bill, only a gas bill, and we have tripled our Natural Gas reserves in the country since 2007. Fewer power plants, many fewer transmission wires, less oil........

Oh yeah, and most importantly, clean power to your audio gear.
macdadtexas

Showing 6 responses by kijanki

I'm not sure about advantage of this technology (other than size). Solid oxide fuel cells used by Bloom Energy have efficiency up to 60% while standard gas turbines have also 60% efficiency.

Hydrogen Fuel Cell was similar hot technology that ended up being a fiasco. Not only for security reasons but also for poor efficiency (in order of 10%) making it a really dirty fuel. Efficiency can be improved obtaining hydrogen by running hot steam thru the methane or coal containing methane but then huge amounts of CO2 would be produced.
Macdadtexas, I remember when what my relative in London said in 70's after highly publicized push for much cheaper gas heating instead of electric heating. He said "Now when I finaly installed gas furnance gas cost doubled. They are not stupid"

Distributed energy sources to avoid transmission losses (if there aren't any in gas pipelines by friction and leaks) is good but solar is good as well since the peak demand for energy comes around noon while residential power can be returned to grid for credit. Silicon solar cell prices are dropping, sand is widely available and panels last 25 years. China is powering whole villages/towns with local solar power stations (in addition to nuclear power plants they build).

Some countries invest heavily in alternative energy. Denmark for instance, gets 20% of their energy from the wind.
Magfan, Just only one of Chinese solar companies LDK has annual silicon production capacity of 18,000 metric tons (40 million pounds). Countries like Germany, Italy and Czech Republic invest heavily into solar panels. Look at 2009 numbers:

Germany, Italy, Czech Republic = 68% = 4.96 GW
Other Europe = 9% = .66 GW
US = 7% = .51 GW
Japan = 6% = .43 GW
Rest of World = 10% = .73 GW

I know that about 8GW total is not a lot but it is not installed capacity but rather annual demand. It is predicted to jump to 20GW in 2011. 150% growth in 2 years (in slow economy) ain't bad but this is just the beginning.
Macdadtexas - solar is expensive to install but returns investment in 5-10 years while it lasts 25 years. It works even on cloudy days producing about 70% of max output. If only I had power meter that subtracts energy returned to grid I would install solar panels on my house.

Storage is a secondary issue since the peak of the energy usage is the biggest problem. Power stations that pump water from lower to higher basins to release water for the short time of the peak demand called "pumped-storage" are wasting a lot (20%) of energy - just to smooth out the peak thus to lower size (cost) of the main power station. This could be replaced by large solar station that produces energy during peak instead of wasting.

Gas is good and much cleaner than fossil fuels we use now. Some of them like brown coal are even forbidden in many countries. Any solution is better than doing nothing. Even simple measures like solar panels heating water (tubes and parabolic mirrors), that Magfan mentioned, are good and don't require any modification to infrastructure. It used to be popular and there is even one house in my neighborhood that has such panels on the roof.

Magfan - LDK produces high purity polysilicon, monocrystalline and multicrystalline ingots, wafers, cells and modules. There are many such companies but capacity of LDK (50 million pounds of silicon per year) shows what is going to happen soon.
Magfan - to get some feel for the size and the cost I looked at Yingli Green 235P-29b poly-silicon solar panel. It delivers 235W and costs $550. Size wise it is 40"x65". 10 panels would be plenty for my energy usage returning power to grid most of the time except when air conditioner or heater would operate. Assuming 5hr of partial sunshine a day would make 1kWh per panel per day. 15 panels = 15kWh a day would make 450kWh per month - your energy needs. It would cost $8250 - one time expense with possible gov. rebates. There would be installation cost, inverters etc. so I'm not really sure what would be the total. Let assume total would be $10k. Assuming about $0.1 per 1kWh it would return investment in 18.5 years - too long. Statistics showed 7.5 years return but it could be in the best scenario with gov. rebates and quantity discounts. On the other hand it is 25 years of clean energy.
Magfan,

2500W inverter is about $1700. I found LDK panels to be a little cheaper $500 for 235W.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250721031603&hlp=false&rvr_id=175661700227&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M*F%3F&GUID=6b8fbb1f12b0a0aad3009e10ff5125d6&itemid=250721031603&ff4=263602_304652

Specification at the bottom of the page show 0.47%/degC temperature coefficient of max power with nominal air temperature of 20deg C. If higher temperatures cause loss of power then 20degC increase will cause 10% loss.
It is guaranteed to deliver 80% of nominal output after 25 years. Your meter situation is a serious drawback since largest loads (air conditioning, heating) should partially operate from the grid while during rest of the time energy should be returned to grid to get overall balance better than zero. Power companies sell energy and need people to be dependent. They won't make it easier for the people to install solar panels unless courts will force them to.

Small solar panel can run small water pump that irrigates small field - it means food for some people for the next 25 years.