I have been using these ET2's for over 9 years now. I am still figuring them out and learning from them. They can be modified in so many ways. Bruce Thigpen laid down the GENIUS behind this tonearm over 20 years ago. Some of you have owned them for over 20 years !
Tell us your secrets.
New owners – what questions do you have ?
We may even be able to coax Bruce to post here. :^)
There are so many modifications that can be done.
Dressing of the wire with this arm is critical to get optimum sonics along with proper counterweight setup.
Let me start it off.
Please tell us what you have found to be the best wire for the ET-2 tonearm ? One that is pliable/doesn’t crink or curl. Whats the best way of dressing it so it doesn’t impact the arm. Through the spindle - Over the manifold - Below manifold ? What have you come up with ?
Note: The picture linked in the previous post is the result of a ..Type B Personality.....Madman.
This is my personal opinion.
It is an extreme case of abuse, and does not represent normal wear and tear.
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I need to make this clear because I got emails asking such. The real story here, IMO, is that even this kind of setup abuse can be resolved / fixed by Bruce due to the design of the ET2.
The VTA blocks are on either side of the VTA arc block, the VTA arc block is the part with the curved surface and rack, yes we put in the new part (rack of teeth) for $300.00
A couple owners have reached out to me privately on proper torquing of the VTA block. So I thought it would be good to rehash the procedure here now. See the picture 35 on my virtual system for reference.
lt is done with the VTA block - NOT - mounted. Hold in your hand and use the feeler gauge.
The Gap value is arbitrary based on personal preference. Ensure you do not over torque.
My first rule would be to use the short end of the Allen wrench as the lever for torquing any screws on the ET-2. The short lever arm will limit the applied torque. For the two bearing blocks that mesh the pinion to the rack in the arc block we first adjust the blocks so that they are parallel to the manifold housing with a .060 -.090 gap between the bearing block and the back adjacent surfaces on the manifold housing. The friction between the manifold housing and the arc block define the feel of the VTA mechanism lever action. We want this to offer some resistance, but not too much when a VTA adjustment is attempted. Turn the 4/40 x 3/4 bearing block screws so that some friction is encountered when adjusting VTA but not so much that the VTA mechanism locks up. We would not attempt this adjustment with the tonearm installed on a turntable.
The main failures we see with the arc blocks are: 1.The threaded insert on back surface of the arc block is cracked due to over torquing of 8-32 stainless steel button head post mounting screw. 2.The bearing blocks on either side of the arc block which support the pinion gear are over torqued which crushes the pinion into the rack and binds the mechanism, if a VTA change is attempted with over torqued bearing blocks the pinion turns and the rack does not move, stripping the teeth on the rack.
Frogman - There is no way that I could deal with a 100% Mexican Chihuahua. let me explain before people get their shorts in a knot.
As it is "Lucky" , named as such by my daughter and her BF, rescued him; So he is 50% Chihuahua and 50% Jack Russell. This means 50% of the time he is in a Chihuahua barking fit, and the other 50% of the time he is on the other side of the couch staring at me, probably thinking God only knows what thoughts. He is probably thinking why doesn’t this guy give me more treats for being his RCA Victor dog front man. 8^0
Lucky, of course can be found on the first picture of my Audiogon Virtual System. Ok maybe I will give him more treats for pulling that RCA Victor dog duty.
Audiophiles can shoot me if they like, but I find it vastly more interesting looking at pictures of dog and cats, et al ...... in the audio room setting then the gear itself. So boring. Especially Digital Gear. But then I am a career IT guy. My laptop is stuck to my sleeve.
Great story, Chris. I too am a dog person and Artie my beagle is thankfully very well trained and knows that he is not allowed in my studio. Years ago when my dear wife and I were “getting serious” we found ourselves in an untenable situation. Her Siamese and my Chihuahua simply could not, or would not, get along. Whenever they were together the fur literally flew.
Around this time most of my lps were in storage waiting for my personal life to settle down and I was keeping only my most cherished four hundred or so lps with me at my temporary digs. When my future wife and I decided to move in together, I brought those lp treasures to our new place and I put them in a row on the floor temporarily while we settled in and they waited for their vacationing two thousand or so familiy members to rejoin them. The fur continued to fly. I also noticed that Max, now sharing living space with his arch nemesis the Siamese, grew increasingly hyper; if it’s possible for a Chihuahua to be even more hyper. I came home one night that my wife was away on business to find that Max had chewed, in perfect sequence, ALL the spines of my lp jackets as if to say: Get that fu@&ing cat out of here!!! Luckily, no damage to the vinyl. Yes, my favorite lps’ jackets all have chewed bottom corners. I wanted to kill the little bastard.
Not entirely clear how the ensuing negotiations were resolved, but the Siamese ended up in Cleveland, Ohio with sister-in-law. I’m sure I paid dearly for that one...I suspect I still am ☺️
Frogman You know I have always been a dog kind of guy.... .
But this Bengal kitty stole my heart.
Alas, finding Dutch Amperex Bugle Boy tubes on the carpet floor in the main room was a warning sign.
My turntable is on a low table, beside the wall, the bottom covered so one can not see under. Who wants to look at sand. A reminder of what is coming.
There I was listening, and a took a glance over at that marvel of engineering 4 feet away - only to see a tail wagging behind the spinning record. Like a conductor with his wand? This one Bengal colored.
Heart stopped, I pulled two muscles jumping up from the recliner.
I bent over to look under the table and repeated over and over - "here kitty, kitty. come here my good little kitty kitty"
The TT thread is easily replaced. But that cantilever and exposed naked tonearm wiring?
Now when she visits the door stays closed. But not sure what to do about the exposed electrostats in the adjacent room ? That room is open.
Dear Nikola, it was, in fact, you who I addressed in that post. Perhaps your confusion is simply a smoke screen and you are an even better cryptologist than I.
Nandric but how do you know which one to chose next among them?
Nikola I have four rooms that contain records and I think they will become a burden when I am not around anymore. I have started talks with my son about how to deal with them.
What is important.is the records I play. The records I play I call my "ready play" records, and are stored next to me, at arm reach in my main room 1, on the floor in four rows, against the wall. They are organized, updated - these four rows - based on my current state.
The first row music and or lyrics make me want to smile and sing.
The second row goes one further and may provoke me to want to get up and dance. Maybe wave my arms around. Room 2 is better for arm waving. If you want to score points with the spouse, let her see you dancing by yourself, especially to Classical. She will get confused and you will gain leverage.
The third row - brings me to tears. Mostly women opera singers, or the violin.
The fourth row - just out of arms reach. You know I need to be careful with the fourth row. Too much playing of music from this fourth will plant seeds in your head for revolting against your government (or the wife - same thing) One can get into big trouble with too much music and lyrics from the fourth row.
... I realize that the platform it was on was the main culprit. In the meantime I decided to go other routes in which I’ve learned quite a lot from.
The freedom of will is a crime these days, which is a joke in the context of our discussion... ;-) (But is actually not really a joke) While the ET2 sounded very good on the Merrill Heirloom turntable, The modded Technics unleashed a new level of solidity and added transparency, which is due to the absence of sprung subchassis and rotational movements of the subchassis. This is in short what I learned.
I understand the intent. But, not really. I lived with the ET through my upgrades for over 20+ years. I realize that the platform it was on was the main culprit. In the meantime I decided to go other routes in which I’ve learned quite a lot from.
The ET is and will always be a part of me and is always in my mind going forward. In fact these recent exchanges just brought all of it back to me like I never left the fold.
Nandric - With all those compressors, tubes and other devices your ET-2 remind me of a patient on intensive care. The difference is that you succeed to keep the thing so long alive (grin).
Dear Nandric (Nikola) I have to tell you that I find it very ironic that my wife and yourself are sending me similar messages about health and reference to patients/intensive care.
She likes to joke to me about the hazards to my health, as I pound my bones on the treadmill every day. She sees my knees bandaged up prior to starting, and of course hears me complaining of pain all day, especially in colder weather. You of course are referring to the health of the components required to keep my ET 2.5 running.
So it got me thinking and it became even more ironic to me, (you know Canadians and Irony....go hand in hand ) that my messages back to both of you happen to be identical, as to why I partake in these activities.
Because within 10 minutes of commencing each activity - everything becomes crystal clear. And when the activities stop - it's all downhill from there.
Now Nikola .... tell you a secret - the biggest, real threat to the longevity and health of my ET 2.5/Platine vinyl setup can be seen in
I believe earlier when I (mistakenly) used the word "futile", may have been the beginning of what I view now as a misunderstanding.
At that point, I was concentrating on azimuth and how in order to get it correct, it really has to be done lp by lp. I then remarked on using a (best reference lp) and leave it at that.
(This is what was in my mind at the time).
I know that to adjust azimuth (only) with the ET, it requires patience to get it right by twisting the arm on it’s very tight connector... which I believe is the only way to accomplish azimuth adjustment without altering other factors..and this is only if one is careful not to push/pull the armwand while twisting.) This is was also key in my mind/post a couple of weeks ago. One has to be lucky to get it right using just this singular method. This is why I've found the Foz to be of help with the ET.
Like a good rebel fighting the establishment’s attempts at censorship (something you know much about), the truth usually wins out. The ET2, complex by the standards of lazy audiophiles, is a work of art...truth in analog sound (redundancy?). Glad to see that you decided to stick around.
Indeed Frogman, this unprecedented cold snap, seemed to have caused many of the remaining brown oak leaves to finally lose their grip, and float down on top of the fresh white snow. Looking almost plague like. Any talk of global warming will fall on deaf ears here.
@slaw but you commit the continuous crime of not using the ET 2 for now. This is a crime onto your ears... ;-) I did the same for a certain time. And I admit the crime of not using my Thales Easy for the moment. Probably because I don't understand it. As a stubborn swiss I am uncapable of understanding superior engineering and mechanical skills.
Can you please explain why these two names in big letters? Did these two persons something wrong in your opinion? I don't hope so.
I don't think that any sort of superior beings / majesties exist in this thread or in engineering. There is only superior design. The VTA design of the ET2 design has it, but with certain qualifications, as seen above. Engineering is optimizating for and starting with certain parameters. Bad engineering is forgetting important parameters. But even good engineering can only optimize for a given *choice* of parameters. One necessary choice of the ET2 VTA arc design is that of a certain precise height for defining 0 degrees. Therefore the optimization only works ca. perfectly for the chosen parameter. As explained by Richard. I did own already an ET one, which was followed by the ET2. And I most usually never needed any lessons about setup or tonearm geometry. cheers...
(Anyway, I hope that my continuing to follow this thread hasn't upset more of you.)
I took a U-turn and have been experimenting with two other tts. I felt it necessary in order to develop my own design at some point for my own enjoyment.
Doesn’t your post confirm my point? So, all things being equal, with a thicker lp, this results in an overhang error if the exact SRA is maintained. I believe this is what I was saying. It's really just basic logic right?
Ages ago I replaced the entire arm mounting block and with it the VTA arc slider. At that time I did not have the machining capability to replicate the arc in my design. So I did not copy that feature. I wasn’t too worried about this however because it is useful only if you play records on the same thickness and adjust VTA with them. Try a little trig..... Set up the arm with the wand parallel to the record surface and the arc at its deepest point. Now raise or lower the manifold using the VTA adjust leaver. As designed the stylus will land at the same place regardless of manifold travel up or down. Brilliant. Now use say a thicker record. With the same set up as before, the wand is parallel to the record surface at a point where the arc is not at its deepest. This has had the effect of moving the stylus landing point forward in the direction of record rotation. The stylus landing point now moves backwards and forwards as VTA is changed. Making the slider straight means that for a given VTA the stylus lands at the same place regardless of record thickness. With an arced slider we land at the same place regardless of VTA but only with the record thickness that the arm was set up for..
I’m still an owner. Plan to use it again at some point. If this negates me asking questions, well....that’s for you to decide.
You keep referring to the owner’s manual in almost every case except for mine? "Now a smart designer in whatever field, would never discuss how a patented design works.....in an owner’s manual".
#1 Why not? #2 A patent is public knowledge for those who ask. #3 Am I still missing something?
The arc block. Emphisis on (arc). Am I still missing something? When adjusted..moves the overhang slightly backwards or forwards. Doesn’t it?
The quote from Steven Carr seems to me at once confirm my post.
Regarding your VTA question - I find it rather odd from a previous owner/user of this tonearm ...how many years ? ... to be asking this question. This ET2 patented VTA feature is in fact what distinguishes it from all other tonearms including other air bearings. Bruce understood that records come with varied included cut angles, so he designed a tonearm to easily deal with them.
Now the smart designer in whatever field, would never discuss secrets about how a patented design works .......in an Owners manual.
To use this VTA feature properly, and to see how it executes, is to understand it. Period. And we have discussed it in this thread previously.
Your question therefore indicates to me that either your setup was off, you just never understood it, or maybe a combination.
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As some of the ET2 owners here are Johnathan Carr fans I will let him re-affirm things.
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Jonathan Carr
However, as I recently wrote in Stereophile, the construction of every tonearm that I am aware of (with the sole exception of the Eminent Technology linear trackers) guarantees that altering SRA will simultaneously cause the effective length to change, along with the tracking force.
To make sure that any SRA-induced audible changes are truly attributable to SRA rather than sundry alignment shifts that came along for the ride, you must recheck the overhang and tracking force and "put them back" to what they were prior to the VTA change.
At the end of the day, you may ponder about the real value of "VTA on-the-fly" mechanisms (grin).
Early on in this thread I addressed this issue this way... when I set up the arm, I used my most played record weight/height/thickness as my reference and used this to set up the arc block in (it’s center) regarding the latter record height preference. I referred to this as the "neutral zone".
Any deviation from this "zone" is a result of a VTA adjustment on the ET’s arc block that alters in some way the SRA, the S2P, the VTF. None of this is mentioned in the manual.
So... as all of this relates to why I posted above to another member...
He had so many system changes in play, and seemingly a lot of basic arm set-up issues, yet seemingly wanted a direct response to one/two issues..... Impossible!
I guess I’m missing something regarding the post I made above. and then your response...
How can the VTF not be changed when one changes VTA by using the arc block design of the ET? This will either move the overhang out or in depending upon the necessary adjustment....right?..therefore altering S2P distance and VTF.
From my memory, this fact is not stated in the manual
Pegasus This is in my system with two twisted naked 0.1 mm silver wires, two L/R independent caple looms in a ca. 10cm diameter, very low torque on the arm apparently.
Pegasus You have spoken repeatedly about your wire setup but have never been generous enough to share pictures of it to those in this forum. It is a new year and pictures are worth a thousand words. I ask you to share again. if you would like send me the pic and I will post for you.
From my experience the best wiring setup is to have the wiring come off the armtube down into a happy face loop. I discovered this during my armpod experiments. The wires, going down into a happy face loop after the armtube have the least effect on the movement of the air bearing spindle. Remember the ET2 is a free bird, unlike say the Kuzma Airline for example; does not need the wiring and airline for damping. Different design. Those that have wiring arranged in a Kuzma Airline type setup, on their ET2, are asking for trouble. Your wiring is controlling the spindle and will make you think maybe things are not level with its pushes and pulls. My Verdier uses a tall Solid Aluminum pillar for an armboard, that is bolted to the plinth, so the wires come down naturally. The ET2 really does like to be placed on a pedestal. I show pictures of this wiring set up on my virtual page.
I am reposting a thread archive shot of Frogman’s wiring set up for everyone benefit here also. Frogman, I hope you do not mind ? 8^0
For anyone using a plinth that was fairly flat with the armboard (like here with FM’s TNT), this is IMO, a great arrangement and the way I would do it also, if I had a flat plinth. Notice the happy face loop coming off the end of the armtube.
Happy New Year to all!Hi Chris, this two remarks of yours are still open:
Pegasus: Non changing VTF is a question of having the centre of gravity aligned with the vertical bearing when floating the arm. This is not an exclusive feature of the ET2 arm, there are more that are concipied this way AFAIR.
AFAIR - as far as I remember.
Oh wondrous flying Greek horse - 8^0 - please do tell of another design that strives for this high level .... and achieves it. If you don't post back I will assume none exist.
I don't know if we understood each other correctly: I was speaking about static balance around the vertical axis, which defines if tracking force is stable with changing height of arm/VTA....AFAIR: - Any "standard" arm, with a straight tube (as seen from the side), a concentric counterweight and a vertical bearing axis crossing the arm tube in the center of the tube is in principle (almost) correct. - The ET2 is not different in that regard from arms like the Rega, or the Graham Robin eg. It is easier though to correct the ET2 precisely, with the vertical position of the counterweight. But... who does this precisely – and how?- Most unipivots try to stabilize the bearing by placing the counterweight below the (vertical ? :-) bearing, which introduces varying tracking force with height/VTA.
Pegasus: From the info in your posts here, I recommend you remove your VTA block, re-align with a feeler gauge. re-install, and if not level... (leaning tower)... it's something before it causing your symptoms. I would not install the bearing, armtube, end I Beam until this was resolved.
Humble horse, although a racing horse, listened to massa Chris :-) - I checked on a "spare" ET2 (Yes I have one... :-) and dismounted the VTA block. Yes, the engineering, idea and precision are admirable. Yes, some people torqued the VTA block much too much like the pre-owner / pre-setup man (are there any setup-woman...?). But not me... Two "axe blocks" left/right side of the VTA adjustment axe press the axe with the VTA mounting block to the air bearing block. Both "axe blocks" should exert the same force onto the axe, most easily done by precise adjustment of the gaps for equal depth. - This was/is correct on my arm. - I tested if changing the VTA with the VTA lever affects lateral levelness of the arm. It still does, lateral levelness is sligthly different with height, repeatable for different settings, some positions good, some a bit less so. Not to an obvious degree, but IME to a degree that necessitates rechecking lateral levelness after resetting VTA, based on my listening experience, specially in its effect on the bass. Sorry for the still not totally happy news :-) This is in my system with two twisted naked 0.1 mm silver wires, two L/R independent caple looms in a ca. 10cm diameter, very low torque on the arm apparently.
Damn if I had known you were going to ask him, I would have asked if he thought his MIMC* would be suitable for the ET2?
Grant The limitation is not with the ET 2 and 2.5. As you know they can handle any cartridge, but the 2.5 "was" designed for heavier lower compliance MC’s. So this MIMC would probably work better with the 2.5 and its larger lower resonating air bearing spindle.
The limit will be based on your preamp capability. From the website.
The name is an acronym for “Moving Iron for Moving Coil preamps). In other words, with its .4mV output, the MIMC should be used with a moving coil phono preamp capable of producing between 58-64dBs of gain.
I have a cart like that too that I call the XV1-AXE. Japanese Design, German Rebuilt
I once beheaded it - 20 feet from the turntable years ago. It was on a ET2, on a brass armpod - (see pic 39 on my audiogon virtual system page ) I had carried the whole shabang over to the bench to repair one of the leads with some solder. Somehow the 20 lb pod got moved in an awkward way and I felt a light tug............. Still hurts to think about it Anyway sent it to Peter and because of the manner in which its well endowed cantilever was sheared off, it damaged internals. He said it could not be rebuilt. At least he was not willing to do it based on his business model. So from advice from Audiogon user Nandric, I sent it over seas to Axel Schuerholz in Germany. He rebuilt it. He even had to make his own cart body bolts for it. Got it back and used it for a bit. One word - Organic. just amazing. But I was scared to use it out of fear over what happened. It still intimidates me today. Kind of like my daughters cat.
That MIMC design you reference can be retipped multiple times at $350 a shot.
but as a vinyl, tube and ESL tragic
good wording. 8^0 Reminds me of the Tragically Hip - Gord Downie - RIP of the remaining speakers (4) that I have held onto that will passed on ... two are full ESL’s and one is a hybrid - B&W ESL DM70 Continental.
Ha, should have known, but as a vinyl, tube and ESL tragic I do get excited when I hear talk of UFO’s and see glowing spheres. :-) Damn if I had known you were going to ask him, I would have asked if he thought his MIMC* would be suitable for the ET2? Just trying to get back on topic. Oh and my best cartridge (ignoring the Koetsu I am too scared to use!) is a beautiful piece of Peter’s work, an SS ruby cantilever re-tipped Supex SD900. Thanks for checking and cheers
Off Topic, but what are the speakers over Peter's left shoulder? Cheers Grant
Hi Grant they sure do look like slim two panel ESL's don't they? ...or doors ? You got me curious so I asked Peter.
Dear Chris;
Thanks for the inquiry.
Yup – they look like speakers. They are the insides of cabinet doors for the TV.
What you cannot see are the Soundsmith Dragonfly speakers, directly behind me, which have replaced the Soundsmith larger stand mount Monarchs. The Dragonfly’s are great, but I was surprised at how well they do in place of the larger stand mount Monarch’s. They always get rave reviews at shows, and we have won best of show with them many times.
Most folks are not aware I have been designing speakers for over 40 years, and was director of Engineering at Bozak.
Pegasus Non changing VTF is a question of having the centre of gravity aligned with the vertical bearing when floating the arm. This is not an exclusive feature of the ET2 arm, there are more that are concipied this way AFAIR.
AFAIR - as far as I remember.
Oh wondrous flying Greek horse - 8^0 - please do tell of another design that strives for this high level .... and achieves it. If you don't post back I will assume none exist.
You see I am interested in some reading to get me past this last stretch of holiday stress and cold weather.
Pegasus From the info in your posts here, I recommend you remove your VTA block, re-align with a feeler gauge. re-install, and if not level... (leaning tower)... it's something before it causing your symptoms. I would not install the bearing, armtube, end I Beam until this was resolved.
**************************** True story
I knew an audiophile guy, lets call him "the Fogz", not to be confused with
Fogz had this room imbalance, I think because of the HVAC runs - ceiling left side. It was a small room, the negative being the sound bounced around easily; the pro being it was easily pressurized for that "Maxell Tape" effect, but .........In order to get a center stereo 2 channel image at his listening position, he would need to either adjust his preamp balance to compensate, or move the left speaker forward (1 foot) 12 inches closer to him than the right speaker. He sat about 10 feet away.
He liked to listen to digital and vinyl and to set up his own Cartridge. His Digital was always sounding different to him, more accurate, less distortion and better overall ...than his Vinyl ( he was using a pivot tonearm that did not have easy Azimuth and VTA/SRA adjustment ).
True Story... names have been changed. This Audio hobby is a set up game. But Analog (Vinyl) is 10 fold the complexity.
I think that Ledermann’s video has some subtleties that merit further clarification. At least to my understanding of his dialogue, he is discouraging use of electrical measurement primarily for setting azimuth with his Soundsmith cartridges, which he goes on to explain at length are very different than other cartridges, having extremely high channel separation that defies using channel balance as the criteria for optimal azimuth setting. He also makes statements indicating that electrical measurement tools can work well on other brands of cartridges IF the coils and stylus/cantilever alignment are not significantly out of whack.
Certainly, if the Fozgometer indicates that severe rotation of the cartridge is necessary to achieve lowest indicated channel crosstalk, then its use is counter-indicated for that cartridge.
In my particular case, the azimuth of my Orpheus L looks perfect using traditional azimuth setting tools (visual) after setting azimuth optimally according to the Fozgometer, which indicates zero channel crosstalk and that each channel reads exactly the same output level when tested individually. Listening tests confirm that channel balance and separation are indeed very good to my ears and soundstage depth/width excellent as well.
Maybe I am lucky but I would be more than a little upset if my $$$ cartridge had misaligned coils or a poorly aligned stylus-to-cantilever relationship to the extent that measurement is impossible. Apparently it is not that uncommon which, if so, is a shame.
I do share the idea that extended critical listening may help further improve sound quality once one has achieved best results with the Fozgometer, but at least it is a very good starting point for tweaking by ear vs eyeballing it with no idea of a proper starting point and it can also show if the coils are misaligned (as per the above where the cartridge must be tilted to an extreme to get good readings).
We all have our methods and whatever works for you and your individual situation is always best.
I agree that the ET2 has (probably) the only thouroughly intelligent VTA adjustment, though it isn't / wasn't without problems in my setup. It used / uses very low torque direct wires, lower torque than original. With my arm lateral levelness was affected by the VTA setting, which it shouldn't by concept. The block screws are adjusted for equal torque... I will have to check it sooner or later with the "feeler" gauges.
I think the main difference and advantage is regarding the non changing overhang.
Non changing VTF is a question of having the centre of gravity aligned with the vertical bearing when floating the arm. This is not an exclusive feature of the ET2 arm, there are more that are concipied this way AFAIR. Fine-tuning this precis balance is however most easy on the ET 2. The WTA Signature (which I own too) is extreme in that regard, as the vertical bearing is at the lower end of the nylon threads, where the threads vertically leave the paddle block (which swims in silicone oil). Way below the center of gravity.
To have the statical center of gravity aligned with the vertical (or horizontal...) bearing axis is, BTW, a solution for only half of the problem: Elongating the I-beam until "mirroring" the cartridge/arm masses and lever lengths potentially aligns also the dynamic center of gravity into the vertical bearing axis. This reduces the dynamic, horizontally pulling forces on the bearing when the arm moves up and down with warps. Ie. it reduces a source of "microdynamically varying offset" with warps - and or vertical modulation...I have not seen a discussion of this aspect anywere yet, but it's a weak point IMO of the WTA and unipivot arms. If one considers the tiny metal point contact (rather a microscopically short metal string) of a unipivot this makes one scratch ones head, because this interface is "elastic by design" which "even" a ball bearing is, on a microscopic level.There is much talk about the elasticity of air bearings - but actually the "better" or more close toleranced ones are rather stiff (plus being chatter / variation free) compared to the situation in metal bearings, at least compared to unipivots.
Slaw It’s not easy (impossible) to get perfect sound from lp to lp because all of the variables involved in lp manufacturing and with the ET’s design. One’s best hope is to have the flattest pressing you own from a listening & visual perspective to set things up. Trying to chase perfect sound from lp to lp will be futile.
Bruce acknowledges and details in the ET2 manual some of the problems that exist with vinyl. One of the most glaring problems is lack of standardization.
Page 51 - ET2 Manual
The angle that the cutterhead stylus is placed at when a record is cut results in an included angle in the final disc. This included angle must be duplicated with the reproducing stylus or distortion will result. The problem today lies in the standardization of the angle by record manufacturers and corresponding standardization by cartridge manufacturers.
One solution is to use a tonearm that easily adjusts the stylus for this included angle. From my experience how much variability is heard between records even same thickness ones, will depend on the cartridge stylus type, the system kit being used, the Room itself, and the listeners hearing ability.
As discussed here multiple times, Bruce’ tonearm design focuses on this included angle cut into the record, and he came up with a worm gear VTA tonearm design that allows for adjustments on the fly, without changing set up alignment or VTF. This is a patented design as we know. But the VTA block needs to be setup correctly as discussed here also. All tonearms except for the ET2 change VTF when you adjust for VTA /SRA.
Furthermore Slaw, the ET2 manual is very clear. For bad ass records (not using those words *^0) - use a pivot arm. No one here that I am aware of plays bad ass records with their ET2.
There is no perfect record or tonearm, but at least Bruce tackles the problem with his design while other tonearm manufacturers choose to ignore this problem, trying to forget the Elephant in the room. I mean imagine a manufacturer selling a tonearm that is marketed as "VTA on the Fly" , but not telling the customer that your VTF will go up when lower VTA/SRA, and VTF will go down when you try to raise VTA/SRA.- ON THE FLY. Physics 101.
Before everyone gets (deep) into things, ...Chris pointed out some of your interesting (add-ons). These types of things make a difference to those that are posting without the benefit of whatever you feel those (things) bring to your experience.
For anyone here to give you a correct recommendation based upon their experience (without your obvious add-ons) would be their waste of time and a waste of this threads intentions.
#1. A plastic tie around one of the tonearm junctions? Why? #2 Tonearm wrap around your CF arm ? Why? #3 TT in the corner of your room. #4 Given these things,...what else?... what type of TT suspension are you using? #5 Trying too many varying audio components/tt adjustments in a short period of time.
Go back to the basics. The intended way the designers (BT) had in mind. ( This may require you spending a few $ but then there will be a (reference) all can respond to/you can behold).
These things should be noted before others try and respond.
"Both the Fozgometer and the Feickert system align the generator vs. the the recording instead of the stylus, and therefore they are misleading (to put it into diplomatic words). And they measure only one parameter instead of the more multi-dimensional listening process."
Well said.
Chris's comment above under Azimuth is spot on. It's not easy (impossible) to get perfect sound from lp to lp because all of the variables involved in lp manufacturing and with the ET's design. One's best hope is to have the flattest pressing you own from a listening & visual perspective to set things up. Trying to chase perfect sound from lp to lp will be futile.
Hi Chris & Dave! Funnyly, I watched through all the cartridge setup videos, and the long "testicles" video about cartridges inner qualities & problems the last three days. There is a lot of common assumptions and concepts about cartridge setup, and I have / had a bit of my own. Listening through Ledermanns videos is very inspiring and like a wave of clean fresh air into the brain. He is a f... genius.
Regarding azimuth I always wondered what to strive for when cartridge / cantilever combos of very expensive cartridges can be visibly off by three or more degrees - otherwise it wouldn't be visible. So the cantilever/stylus can be twisted in the body, and we can assume that it's probably difficult to get repeatable precision in production below 1 degree azimuth angle. The second question then arises: How exact is the mounting of the stylus in reference to the moving coil armature, or (around the cantilever axis rotationally) non-symmetric moving iron or magnet structures?All this results in the question: Does the coil/generator needs to be aligned exactly with the groove, or is it the stylus?Ledermann gives a clear and IMO decisive answer. The left/right tracing lines / points should optimally be on equal height – specially with line contact styli there is not much tolerance. Optimizing crosstalk often ends in tracing the upper edge of one groove / channel and getting (sometimes a lot of ) additionnal distortion. Optimizing channel separation symmetry (as a one parameter measurement)yields in that sense wrong results. I used to align my cartridges with mono recordings, or mono signals. I had the cartridge mono-strapped with switched +/- connections on one channel. The problem with this setup is that signal level differences between L and R result in less clear cancelling which gives a rather broad minimum. But interestingly in off-phase mono one can still hear the distortion more clearly. Maybe one should minimize *the distortion* in that setup. I got good results when keeping an ear on the distortion. Ie. minimizing the distortion and then in the minimum /optimal zone slightly adjust azimuth angle for minimal cross-talk. Effectively one listens to the vertical signal in that setup (as in the Fozgometers reading) – with distortion appearing in the lateral signal because of suboptimal tracing in one channel, highlighted by the opff-phase setup. I assume the Fozgometer has an optimized way to ignore the channel level differences and thus attainig a clearer null. But IMO doing adjustment by eye only on a meter eliminates the important audible changes. Ie. eliminating an important sonic parameter, the distortion, eliminates any remaining audible hint to tracing distortions due to stylus position. Both the Fozgometer and the Feickert system align the generator vs. the recording instead of the stylus, and therefore they are misleading (to put it in diplomatic words). And they measure only one parameter instead of the more multi-dimensional listening process.
IMO Peter Ledermanns talks are a must hear&see for any analogue/vinyl lover.
In response to Chris - Yes I am disconnecting the tonearm at the gooseneck, so in theory I'm preserving Azimuth and the tracking line when I swap looms. I still have to reset tonearm height to get VTA right, but I rely on the runout gage readings to get back to the right height. And of course I have to reset VTF. I'm going to switch the Lyra Delos back into my carbon fiber tonearm tonight and see if I can hit the sweet spot. My technique is to use a small van den hull bubble level that sits on top of the cartridge as a reference and make small adjustments and listen. Arguably the least fun part of dialing in the sound. When I hit that SRA/VTF/Azimuth window, and it's small, the reproduction takes on a whole new character. I especially notice it when a vocalist has backup harmony singers or is being double tracked. I listen to those background vocals and when things are right, those vocals are entirely distinct and you can often follow their breathing patterns etc., just as if they were lead vocals. Having said that,
I'm seriously thinking about getting a measuring device like the Fozgometer to get in the ballpark, but I'm going by ear tonight and will try to keep good notes. As Peter Lederman points out, the issue is that if the cartridge has very good channel separation, one channel may be 30db and the other 34db, those are both great numbers that would be compromised by matching output. The consensus from my reading is that the goal when setting azimuth is to minimize crosstalk.
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