Chris, thank you for your dedication and diligence in loaning BT the Acutex and soliciting his comments. I agree, getting more folks back into vinyl is a great thing; I will contact Bruce and thank him. I found his comments about his preference for the ET2 with this cart to be interesting; I wish he had elaborated on the reasons why. My ET, while it uses the high pressure manifold, is still a 2 not a 2.5 since it uses the regular diameter spindle.
Eminent Technology ET-2 Tonearm Owners
Where are you? What mods have you done ?
I have been using these ET2's for over 9 years now.
I am still figuring them out and learning from them. They can be modified in so many ways. Bruce Thigpen laid down the GENIUS behind this tonearm over 20 years ago. Some of you have owned them for over 20 years !
Tell us your secrets.
New owners – what questions do you have ?
We may even be able to coax Bruce to post here. :^)
There are so many modifications that can be done.
Dressing of the wire with this arm is critical to get optimum sonics along with proper counterweight setup.
Let me start it off.
Please tell us what you have found to be the best wire for the ET-2 tonearm ? One that is pliable/doesn’t crink or curl. Whats the best way of dressing it so it doesn’t impact the arm. Through the spindle - Over the manifold - Below manifold ? What have you come up with ?
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Chris, Thanks for your forsight regarding sending the Acutex to Bruce for his impressions. What more can I say... here are some excellent lps to check out... (I hope there are "gals" reading this. Give me a call....) Calexico/Iron @ Wine "In The Reins" an excellent, dynamic lp!!! Neko Case "Fox Confessor...." Her vocals are awesome here, soundstage is somewhat diminished but an excellent lp. Jenny Lewis @ the Watson Twins "Rabbit Fur Coat", Great! The National "High Violet" not superior sonically, but a damn good record! Birdy "selftitled", a 15 year old that can make you/me cry! I could go on........... |
Bruce Thigpen 420 STR Impressions. Chris, Guys ( gals? ) Through my various emails bugging him :^( for his impressions (I received them this morning). I got a real sense that Bruce appreciated the downtime to listen to vinyl. IMO, the more we can do to draw folks like Bruce Thigpen back into vinyl; I feel is a good thing for vinyl and music in general. Whether you are an ET2 owner or not on this thread, a quick email thanking him for his impressions here is a start. Brucet (at) eminent-tech (dot) com |
Sorry for overwhelming.... I meant to share that I recently went to a evening called Music Matters with my audio buddy. I was 10' from Fremer. Our 'analog man'. He played some hi-rez files from his Continuum table. Some Joni Mitchell, Who, Rolling Stones. These sounded GREAT! My friend remarked to me later how the rhythmic drive, propulsion of the music was apparent. That made an impression on me. The Stones as we all know aren't known for sonics, in this case, it was the best I've ever heard. The source was a MFSL lp. The tt in the room was a SME 10. A copy of The Band was played, the sense of realism was apparent. I, of course made a fool of myself when I remarked about his giving a copy of "Rough Mix" to Classic for their reproduction of that lp cover. maybe I'm the only one who noticed. |
Chris: I didn't go back to review posts... from memory, my initial response to "Nightfly" being a lp we could all compare was, "it is one of the first digital recordings ever". I don't think my system is state of the art by any measure. What I'm confident of is that when ever I put any of my "Nightfly" lps on, I can't listen through a side. My system/room weakness, yes, I'm perfectly willing to accept that. Most SD lps are made with prescion, that coupled with the advent of digital recordings is a connundrum. I can only report on what my ears tell me. Dover: Thanks for your thoughts. I know now my wire loom is not the best. My thoughts on building a new 'separate' plinth, completely discarding the VPI base all together, will be a totally different venue for a separate armpod to be introduced. I probably didn't make this clear before. (I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't clear now). (A laugh is appropriate here). I have the AN wire waiting in the wing. Awesome! I hope. You're suggestion regarding separating the crossovers from the speakers is one I haven't thought of but I sure can see the sonic value. I'll keep it in my to do list located somewhere in my mind. While I have some thoughts on 'better' stands, your idea is probably more cost effective with better results. Thanks. |
Everytime I've put on either of my copies of "The Nightfly", I took it off before the 1st song was through! This was for the purpose of listening to (enjoy), and I still couldn't get past it. Slaw - Frogman was clear in telling us that it was a digital LP but he also used some words if you go back to the post like slick or polished sounding. I agree with this. Imo - Vinyl is a very tweakable and variable medium. How we tweak our room/gear to play vinyl is based on many factors, each us are a little different, and this influences what we do with the gear in our own room/s. Even if we had exact same gear, our rooms are all different. For me personally the first time I played a master tape copy against the LP version (same pre/amp/speakers/room) my personal vinyl preferences became very obvious to me. They were exposed so to speak. There is no hiding behind a pretty sounding cartridge with tape. It forced me to deal with the room/gear and try to bring it to an acceptable level for myself. I have also had a few members of my daughters high school jazz ensemble in my room a few times over the last 4 years to play for me – just for a few minutes. Each time this revealed flaws in my room. The room is the most important factor, and it will never be perfect. My room is ok for my reproduced sound as I have control over it to a degree. Not for live music. imo - There is no reason you should not be able to enjoy Nightfly. My recommendation is to play more LPs’ like Nightfly and adjust your gear/room to where it is tolerable enough and you can at least enjoy the music. Isn't that what this is about. Once you have done this I believe the other good analog sounding lps like the Shawn Colvin one will sound even better. The 420str doesn’t sound pretty, its been said here before. Its also doesn’t cover up. So this is playing a factor too in your room. On the ET2 I find the 420str very honest in its presentation and I find the tone good compared to my tapes. Just some thoughts ... Hoping to get Bruce’s review of it this week. |
Hi Slaw - here are a few suggestions for you to consider - Wiring loom - I would untwist the wire between the arm and plinth to reduce resistance. I would also place the anchor point for the cable on the plinth at the midway point of travel, not the end. I do not subscribe to separate pods for arms, the arm must be rigidly referenced to the bearing point. Your use of rollerballs in the TT with a separate pod would be a disaster in my view. Use your woodwork skills on the speakers - pulling the crossovers out of the box, even without changing any components, will yield a significant improvement in resolution and lower noise floor. |
One last thought.... No disregard to Frogman, ... I think anyone who listens to Donald Fagens "Nightfly" will hear easily that it is a digital recording! I LOVE the music but it's obvious! I'm not a pushover, but I am obviously a lover of well recorded music and therefore have a definate opinion on what I hear. "Nightfly" is an awesome lp, but does not sound "analog". I love music, therefore, my thoughts.... I hope you all understand. |
Here it is anyway,... I hope you all are receptive to music recommendations. After all, isn't this what it's all about? I have 3 here. They are presented in an order of sonics first, then my sense of what most will enjoy... I hope you enjoy! Get these while you can on lp. Haley Bonar "Big Star", = A big recommendation! Laura Veirs " July Flame" (Anything) Neko Case. Most recommended for sonics are, "Canadian Amp", "Blacklisted", Middle Cyclone".... get them all and remember, these aren't quite as (sonically great as the one's above). Neko has the best voice of any female I've ever heard! There it is. Sorry to overwhelm the ET thread. |
Hi Slaw - Bruce got a second 420str that was "donated" to me. I have been enjoying my Acutex 420 all this time and want to thank Frogman and yourself for the Donald Fagen and Shawn Colvin recommendations. Those LP's are in regular rotation with me. Bruce has been very busy and has been travelling but I was in touch with him last week. He is really glad we sent him the cartridge and he made the time to listen to it. He is in fact sending me a short review of it which I will post here. I didn't want to say anything till I received the review. More later.....Armpod huh ? ..... |
Chris: Since you started this thread.... I'm really thinking of going McGiver on my TT. Discard the base @ plinth, which will result in a separate armpod. I know you'll agree with that, me too. Anyway, this is going to take priority over all my other projects. I wanted to take part in a Acutex listening group. Since you sent yours to Bruce and others don't seem to be anxious, I'm not that concerned about it anymore. Oh well.... Looking forward to hearing what Bruce may have to say... otherwise, I'll be developing my projects for some time. |
Yes, much fun. After more listening... Esperanza Spalding "Junjo". I'm realizing that what I'm hearing or maybe more experiencing is like being front row, maybe 10' from the stage in a small night club and besides hearing the music in a much more involving way, I can sense I see Esperanza's physical human form right in front of me. That is cool! I can't thank you enough for putting me on to this cartridge. |
From my audiogon October news letter. Check out this months featured audiophile and his TT and tonearm. http://blog.audiogon.com/2012/10/05/audiogon-featured-audiophile-october-2012-kellyp/ From a link in the above site. Check out tonearm tube and the wiring - scroll down to bottom. http://roanokefootandankle.com/Turntable/Turntable.htm |
I've been listening to my DIY armboard and thought I'd try to give some of my impressions. Since it's totally DIY in nature, there's really nothing to compare it to. The materials are 3 layers consisting of: the top plate is 1/2" Purpleheart (a very dense hardwood), the 2nd layer, which I bonded to the top layer, is 3'8" Baltic birch plywood, the bottom interface, (which I view as a combination of isolation/damping), is a 1/4" sheet of engineered wood flooring underlayment. (I purposely didn't bond this layer in order to have a way to evaluate other materials in this situation). I have no idea what the actual materials are but I'm sure it's a recycled product. I experimented with it when I was constructing my motor enclosure. I'm a self-described "shade tree mechanic" of the audio world. I don't have any scientific means of evaluating materials, just soaking in everything I've seen, heard and read about over the years, then somehow, coming up with my own variations of the above. I'm going to try and post pictures of it temporarily on my virtual systems page, just to let you get an idea of it visually. Since it's a prototype, I didn't go for a visually pleasing product overall. The overall sound is very, very good. I realize that there are several changes here, one is the absence of the stock tonearm/armboard interface plate. I really wanted to get rid of anything that could be a resonance inhibitor. I'm sure you all are aware of evaluating changes in your system and how they are 'recording dependant'. Let's start with my standby recording in which I use to evaluate any changes I make. Shawn Colvin "Steady On". I can't say it's a reference recording but it meets my criteria not only as a damn good record, but it has most of all of the aspects one would need to evaluate every aspect of a recording, IMO. The vocals on this @ (every lp I've heard since) are spot on. No hint of any unnatural element. Actually, the vocals seem noticeably more well integrated into the whole picture. I hear no loss of detail or inner detail. What seems to be of any concern at all is, on some familiar records, there could be a slight, "rounding off or softening" of bass, though no loss of bass lines. Upon listening to Van Morrison "Moondance" Direct Disk Labs, it sounds pretty awesome! I'm wondering, given all of the unknown changes here, if this may be a factor due to the removal of the factory plate mentioned above? I realize there's more going on here than that however. I'm really intrigued by the end result of this project, given the unknown scientific nature of the differences I'm hearing. |
Dear Chris, The Serbian worriors already own or can buy an Kalashnikov for about $200. Those can be used for, uh, the radical 'isolation'. But the custom is to return the wife to her mother if not satisfy with, say,her cook capability. As the passionate worriors the Serbians never missed any of the Balkans wars nor do they need any reason to start one (aka 'pure passion'). The result is an huge shortage of young man while everybody like to have grandkids. So to get a son in law is a very difficult proposition. The logical or even more practical consequence is to offer dowry and other 'convenient' conditions to 'seduce' a young man to marry your daugther. One of those is of course the 'return warranty'. You can imagine the problems by parents with more than one daugther. So the Serbians also have the China paradox but much smaller qua extension. As you of course know no Chinese wants a daugther. Because of this fact the number of the Chinese population is not only a paradox but also an enigma. But the Serbian case is more a look alike with the Spartan case. At some point in time just one worrior is left over. My advice to you? You can ask her mother first if she still loves her daugther and than ask the right question. Regards, |
Slaw - fwiw - the 3 spikes on the base of the ET2 are stainless steel 10-32 cone point set screws available from any supplier. An excellent suggestion I thought from Dover to just file them down to use naked with acrylic or any other material you don’t want to mar. Ordering a few gives you options with a few different armboards. Nandric Well Nikola - I am a little confused. Since Serbians according to you are known as natural born warriors, I dare not ask what the Serbian way is to isolate your wife. I am curious though how it is done in your Netherlands. I have taken what I consider the sub optimal way of dealing with this problem – much like a sub sonic filter, I turn on my own filter. I realize this is just a bandaid and does not solve the problem, just like a sub sonic filter. |
Here's the website: www.aircomparts.com Click on filters, may be the need to follow again. If you Google 'compressed air toilet paper filters', you can follow links to user forums. My test is as I descibed earier, by using the disposable dessicant filters vs this one. Maybe not scientific but I'll stand by my 'end user' method. |
Dear Slaw, yes I am 'an early morning listener' like you but because I test all kinds of MM carts I am of course not listening to the music but only to the test records. I have no idea what you are talking about but assume that you also discovered some cheap methods to test one or the other. BTW I use coffee filters to clean the already used cleaning fluid for the LP's. No idea if this works but the idea is that if you do the best you can there is no way anybody can blame you . Now what about 'my' aspirin? Regards, |
Nandric, Are you an early morning listener like me? Cool! I'm a little concerned when asking me to "wonder" though. Just to share something I've recently discovered. You may see a need? When I changed to high pressure, during this process is when my Airtech tank exploded, I used 3 moisture traps to help eliminate the moisture I was accummutating in my line. ( By the way, I noticed that these had the additional effect of eliminating the pulsing from the compressor). I ultimately ended up using, on the upstream of the final regulator, a dessicant filter. While this worked and allowed visual proof that some moisture was still getting through, it became an expense that I didn't want to incur forever. Enter, toilet paper filter. Yes. Some of you may be aware, but I recently discovered it. Initially it seemed odd. After researching it on several forums, I ordered mine. I'm sure there is a DIY of building this but I figure in my own time and effort into such things along with the other more important things I can do. Anyway, the intial cost and, in a low flow situation as the Et is, there will probably be little to no replacement filter needed. They can be removed to dry out as an option to replacement. Even if one thinks there is no moisture in their line, it may be worth putting in, (a one time basis), a dessicant filter, just to try. |
All of the tips are greatly appreciated. Tinning both the wire and clips sounds logical. I've finally decided on armborad materials and will probably start that project first because of the familiar sound of my system at this point. Frogman: In dressing the AN wire, did you twist the 4 wires together at any point for possible noise rejection? |
****Once the wife's insulation has melted...."****Frogman for me this wording conjures up a very vivid and clear image. Its at this point “once the wife’s insulation has melted” that she comes downstairs, knocks on the door and tells me in a stern voice to add more insulation to the ceiling and walls of my room. :^( My apologies for my feeble attempt at Balkan humour - I have probably left myself open to ridicule now by the humour master himself. |
Slaw, working with AN wire is a delicate process, but with patience and care you can do it. Nandric's suggestion of anchoring the clips (one at a time; of course) on an old cartridge is a good one; you don't want solder "creeping" into the clip's sleeve. This can happen even if you hold or secure the clip vertically. A toothpick stuck in a large ball of modeling clay (or similar) also works well. The advantage here is being able to adjust the angle of the tooth pick/clip easily; horizontal is best. -With the clip secured to the toothpick or cartridge, tin the clip's tab over it's entire length. Don't use too much solder; you don't need much. -Now comes the hardest part; tinning the wire itself. After a lot of trial and error, I have found that the best technique is to melt a bead of solder unto the the iron's tip and with your other hand run the end of the wire through the bead of melted solder until you can see that the wire is coated with solder. Don't hold the wire in the solder bead too long or the wire itself will melt. Run it through slowly; it may take three or four times. Once the wife's insulation has melted the wire will be coated with solder; not before. If you try touching the wire with the tip of the iron you will probably melt the wire. -Now, solder the tinned end unto the prepared clip's tab. I like to make sure that a little bit of solder (remember, don't use too much) runs unto the wire beyond the tinned section. This will provide some strain relief, as the insulated portion will be less susceptible to fracturing. -Slip the heat shrink tubing over the wire unto the clip, making sure that it slips on past the tab and unto at least part of the sleeve for additional integrity and strain relief. Don't try to slip it on over the clip first. -Unless the heat shrink tube fits very loosely (unlikely) I prefer to not heat-shrink it. This makes repairs much easier, by allowing you to carefully slip it off of the clip and reusing it. Good luck, and let us know how you like the AN wire; it transformed the sound of my analog setup. |
Slaw - With regard to the aluminium plate/acrylic. I would not run the plate, it's added resonance. I have moved away from metal spikes, and if I use them I radius the tip so it is not a sharp point. I say radius, as in rounded, NOT flat. The idea is a small radius tip sitting in a larger radius hole as per most unipivot bearings. My suggestion would be to radius the tip of the grubs screws and then you should be able to couple directly to the acrylic without damaging the surface. In an ideal world the acrylic would have a dimple in it for the radius tip to sit in. |
Thanks guys! I am not confident at all when it comes to soldering these little tonearm wires to heavier gauge clips. I just received my AN wire... boy is it skinny! The great part about it is, it is extremely flexible, which will ultimately be a plus with an ET wireloom. I have at least 3 projects ahead of me, all having to do with the ET. Chris: My post regarding the aluminum plate supplied w/ the ET was just to hopefully get anyone's experience w/or w/o the plate on a VPI acrylic armboard. My concern being that the acrylic may be too soft or not, to be used w/o the plate, and how each may have sounded. I have, as an upcoming project, a DIY armboard, so I'll most likely eliminate the plate as I'll be using a harder substance as the interface. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it, (for now) lol. Any tips on soldering will be very much appreciated. I'm usually more likely to take my sweet time getting mentally prepared. |
Slaw Slaw - I just got Gene's answer I am quoting. "For those WBT RCA's the buildup was done with several layers of shrinktube. The first piece is 1/16" CPX 100 Black, you have to be EXTREMELY careful when applying heat so that you do not fuse the insulation together on the wires. From there it is built up using 1/4" and 3/8" CPA type shrinktube with the last piece covering the first two for an overall clean stepped appearance." here's the pic again - I am not affiliated with Take Five - Just a customer. http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1332259084.jpg |
Hi Dover – thx for the info. Please tell me there is not going to be a pop test quiz on that material. More on resonances My Verdier plinth – which holds the platter, armpod, spindle (no physical bearing) instead two large shielded magnets - is made of Granito. Granito is a material composed by little pieces of marble of very different origin agglomerated inside a mold with cement. Machined and polished. The resonance of the plinth with its suspension is about 5Hz and it is well absorbed by the air cavities. The Granito and resonance info comes from Mr.Verdier himself to me in an email. My SP10 unit (version 4) is bolted in by four - one inch solid stainless columns to an MDF plinth which in turn sits on a pneumatic suspension, which in turn is on a wall shelf (load bearing) The MDF base is a full TT system plinth as it holds all the goods. It supposedly resonates a little lower than slate. The armpod 19 lbs relies on its weight alone but my version 5 plans are to have it bolted in as well, and I am not sure what material the next plinth will be. The Nantais L75 is an all wood layered plinth and I have convinced myself that if I take my boat to the middle of Lake Ontario and drop it over it will sink. It feels like cement when carried. This has been said before – The ET2.5 spindle resonates at 2-3 Hz. The skinnier ET 2.0 spindle resonates at around 5-6 hz. Resonances can be fun ? |
In the time of Hegel the only methodological 'instruments' were the 'cocepts' and the 'S is P' sentence form. So to move farther Hegel invented that each concept has its opposite while the opposites have their own opposites, and so farther. I see that this 'method' is not only used to describe things but also put in practice: 'try the opposite if not satisfy with the actual concept results'. Regards, |
Ct0517 Fyi the Final Audio TT uses a 35mm thick slab of superplastic zinc ( SPZ ) for the "plinth" - weight of plinth exclusive of platter/bearing/armpod/arm is approx 40kg. The inverted bearing and armpod are bolted directly to this slab. Info is here : http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=ohQdU5ggcOIC&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=superplastic+zinc+(SPZ)&source=bl&ots=uDqm8e0JsG&sig=oPdsNcyBUypOB6D9VWdrx_vFdgQ&hl=en#v=onepage&q=superplastic%20zinc%20(SPZ)&f=false The base is tight and quick. My experience is that slate does ring. A friend of mine is now working on a ultra lightweight composite powdered ceramic sandwhich plinth for the Garrard 301 to try a "non stored energy" approach having discarded slate/panzerholz etc. |
Slaw- I personally have only tried it with the spacer, but now wonder if this could be a source of unwanted resonance using the acrylic armboard? IMO – added resonance – yes. But whether it is a good or bad resonance in your setup only you can tell. Is this any different really than adding layers to the platter ? As ones system resolution rises its a resonance game we play with vinyl. Adding layers for me complicates things; as far as allowing me to understand what material/part is contributing to the sound. I believe it was used (shim) to keep from marring the acrylic surface with the 3 ET2 spikes. I did use it with the TNT. I don’t use it now – my 2 ET2 arms are mounted naked with their spikes. With the machine skills you have, as seen by your standalone motor assembly I would be making up 2 or 3 different material armboards. :^) Nandric Hi Nikola I personally learned a long time ago not to worry too much about things I have no control over such as the world spinning, 18 year old fraternal twins :^( , etc…. or I would have put myself 6 feet under already by now. I prefer to have fun in this hobby and in areas I have control over, solely based on what I am hearing. And because 'plinth=base' there is no better base for whatever TT than the slate kind. It should be counted as the real estate because of the weight and value. All materials resonate including slate. From what I recall reading (not listening) slate resonates around 121 hz (forget what thickness it was). Lower than your acrylic Kuzma which I believe was around 207-210 hz in the tests that were done; not sure again of thickness that was used. This info is avail on the internet if you google it. How accurate it is IDK. I have however read that using a full TT system plinth in a low resonating material helps to boost the bass in a room ? This could help if your room/speaker/placement combination is lacking in the low end ? Glad you’re having fun with your SP10 Nikola. |
Dear Slaw, the problem is not only the clips but also the(thin) tonearm wire . Not sure if you mean Cardas PCC Deluxe which are very good but pretty expensive. There are also Clearaudio clips which are very good made. They are also cheaper; 18 GBP on ebay.uk. What is also important are those heatshrinks which protect the wire. While not easy to solder the Clearaudio clips are the best in my opinion. Regards, |