I am looking for an upgrade to my elekit tu8600s. Currently have cossor black plates. I use the amp for my hd800s and zmf atticus. I am looking for more transparency, dynamics and a bigger stage. I am interested in a richer tone too so not sure which direction to go. Any thoughts?
The Frankensteins are marvelous sounding but can be a bit hard on the 300b tube. I had two failures with the excellent Takatsuki tubes within a 5 year period. Admittedly I use my Frankensteins very regularly for long listening sessions (4-5 hours on average). The EML XLS has withstood this usage well over 9 years with zero problems and continue to test well.
Obviously I can’t predict what your outcome will be, but the point being that the EML has many owners who’ve had very similar experiences as mine over the years. This refers to their “solid plate “, not their “mesh plate tubes. The mesh is very spacious and airy sounding but is much more delicate with regard for usage. XLS is a heavy duty rugged workhorse 300b yet also sounds superb in my opinion.
In an earlier post I mentioned I had owned the EML XLS tubes for 7 or 8 years. I came across an old post of mine regarding 300b choices. At the time I made that post I had owned the EML tubes for about six months, so early spring 2013. I still have those tubes and they still sound terrific! They tested strong 6 months ago on my friend’s Amplitrex tube tester. My how time flies.😊
Rlowe,
It’s hard to say, I used the Shuguang BT heavily for 2 1/2 years prior to getting the Takatsuki 1 1/2 years ago. The BTs are still very usable presently. I have the AVVT 32b (300b) which the Manufacturer said is a 40, 000 hour tube! I also have the EML XLS which shares a similar design and pedigree so who really knows?
Charles,
The best 300b tubes are expensive. Their better sound quality and reliability are justification. If you have a high quality 300b amplifier and audio audio system, it’s the right way to go. I would not hinder a good amp with lower tier 300b tubes.
Be sure to follow EML’s initial use burn-in guidelines. This helps to ensure their long lifespan. They in my experience were good sounding out of the box and did improve over the next 50 hours of usage.
I did not know that Israel felt the same regarding the EML XLS 300b as I have expressed. I’ve had the Takatsuki, VAIC and Elrog (1st generation) in my Frankensteins. All were truly excellent and I could recommend anyone of them.
All factors considered I’ve decided that the EML XLS suits me best with sound quality and outstanding reliability track record/tube longevity. I hope that you enjoy the same degree of success with them as I have.
Thst is disappointing. I have no experience with the new production Western Electric 300b but owner feedback has been very positive. They also have a 5 year warranty which inspires confidence.
I have used the EML XLS in my Frankensteins MK II for about 7 or 8 years by now and they are excellent! Very rugged construction and undeniably reliable. They sound splendid in this amplifier. I believe that you will be very safe with either of these two tubes.
Don't want to go too far off topic here, but Israel told me Psvane 101D tube quality and reliability has gone down greatly in last two years, he no longer sells any 101D tubes. He sold me pair of Linlai, used but tested well, I'm starting to become very concerned with future availability of 101D tubes, only two manufacturers and used very rarely in audio equipment.
Well, I hope my current Psvane W.E 101D. serve me as well as my 1st pair did. The 101D based Statement line stage has performed brilliantly for me the 13 years I've owned it. During that time, I have had zero interest in replacing it with something else (Unless I went integrated amplifier for lower component box count). So, here's hoping that the Chinese get their act together with tube quality control. Be nice if EML made a 101D. 😀
@sns let us know how the change works out for you.
I was not questioning the reliability of the re-issue Western Electric 300b, I’v not read/heard of problems. I was just wondering how this specific 300b has more ability to drive Susvara headphones (per larsman) more successfully than another 300b. What would be responsible for this to occur?
I have not spoken with Israel Blume about lowering tube heater voltage. I do suspect it runs relatively high in his Frankenstein 300b SET amplifier. I think this amp nay push the 300b harder than some other 300b amplifiers. I did not consider it may possibly be true with regard to the Coincident Statement line stage. I will say I’ve gotten pretty long tube life with the 101D tubes in this line stage. About 6 or 7 years using the Psvane W.E.Replica fairly heavily.
If lessening the heater voltage does not affect the superb sound quality of either Coincident component, then it seems a good move. The EML mesh plate I had failed very early in the Frankenstein (Amp’s rated heat dissipation too high for the more delicate genuine mesh filament). No issue whatsoever with the solid plate EML XLS (Exceptionally rugged 300b).
I do not doubt for a moment that the W.E. is the much better sound quality tube. Curious as to how it has better ability to drive a load versus other 300bs.
The elrogs are very neutral detailed, fast, expansive. Solid tubes but i do wonder what a more romantic bloomy tube would sound like in this amp. Considering the we300b clone (linlai).
Are you still happy with your Elrogs?
Did you try the alternative 300bs you were interested in for comparison?
@sns Do you find that even reliable budget 300b tubes (gold lions, linlai black plates) sound as good as ’premium’/more expensive 300b tubes? WE, Elrog, TAK, ELS etc?
I can’t speak for @sns but based on my listening experiences the answer is no. You can achieve pretty good and certainly what I’d consider solid or respectable sound quality.
As discussed above in this thread, the premium tier of 300b tubes are plain and simple better built and unquestionably better sounding. I would also point out that with certain brands you will get longer tube lifespan.
I would say that any 300B tube made with Molybdenum would be far ahead of those mentioned here.
As far as I know only Elrog makes them
Not sure how you reached that conclusion. As I mentioned above I owned the Elrog 300b. It is an excellent beautiful sounding tube. It has very good dynamic ability, however I find the EML XLS more dynamic and authoritative in its sonic character.
In my audio system the Takasuki was as dynamic as my Elrogs. Both are excellent choices.
I’m pretty sure Scott is familiar with Arthur Loesch and I’m very curious to know his thoughts regarding driver tube attributes (Particularly the high current aspect). Given Scott’s expertise I suspect he has a strong opinion one way or the other.
Arthur Loesch tracked me down at the CES a few years ago, and as we chatted and toured the rooms at the Alexis Park, he mentioned that most DHT’s sound alike - if driven by a low enough source impedance and a powerful driver with *lots* of current. It’s when they are driven by feeble 5-8mA driver tubes that the characteristic 45, 2A3, 300B, or 845 signature appears. In other words, you’ll get loads of that 300B sound if all you’re using is an RC-coupled 6SN7."
The esteemed SET maven Arthur Loesch (Haven’t seen his name in quite some time) seems to be making 2 points.
1 DHT tube require a high current driver tube to obtain optimal performance.
2 If this driver tube requirement is met then there’s little (If any) sonic signature distinctions amongst the DHT tube choices.
Well I do know that the builder of my Coincident Frankenstein 300b SET specifically chose the 6EM7 as the driver for the 300b output tubes. Citing the 6EM7 has far greater (Max of 50ma per data sheet) current capability compared to the 6SN7. He said this is exactly what a 300b tube needs to display its full potential. Also the late Roger Modjeski said the 6EM7 had enough current and power it could function as an output tube driving a speaker load.
He in fact subsequently built a 6EM7 SEP amplifier that produced 2 watts per channel (Equal to a 45 tube). Point being if it can drive a speaker impedance, it can drive a DHT output tube. So Mr. Loesch may have a very valid point.
As to his 2nd point, I just don’t know. I’ve compared numerous 300b brands in my Frankensteins (With high current 6EM7 driver tube) and could very easily and clearly hear sonic character differences between all of them. Now granted this was using only the 300b . Whereas Mr. Loesch was comparing different DHTs (45/2A3/300b/PX 25 etc.) to each another.
As always the world of tubes is interesting and even fascinating.
I had first generation Elrogs that were beautiful sounding but unreliable. I do believe that Thomas Mayer has corrected all the earlier issues. I don't hear or read about failed tubes anymore. So I believe that you have made an excellent choice and congratulations!
No problem. As @sns pointed out, there's no 'right' tube that is going to satisfy everyone. As I wrote earlier, I've used some excellent 300bs. For my particular amplifier/audio system and ears the EML XLS has been ideal for me.
My guss is use of better materials quality, much higher standard of construction and attention to detail. My EML XLS is heavier than most 300b tubes. It just looks and actually feels better built. Ultra reliability and very extended tube life longevity.
Point being, all the boutique tubes are nice, just a matter of different flavors. All will resolve at high level and offer refinement the cheaper tubes can't come close to. Acmes have aprox. 75 hours and getting better all the time!
This is probably the best ' get to the point's summation I've read in discussions concerning 300b tubes. I've tried to make this exact point in previous 300b threads (Although without the beautiful brevity of @sns) numerous times. One common criticism of the 300bs is the High cost of the premium tier choices.
A valid observation but in this circumstance you get what you pay for plain and simple. There is a clear line of delineation between budget/reasonable cost 300b and the higher cost/quality 300b tubes. There's no escaping the truth, you are getting what you are paying for.
If you have a high quality 300b amplifier it will sound decent/pretty respectable with lower cost 300bs. In my opinion it makes absolute good sense to get the most out of a high quality 300b amplifier by using the upper tier tubes. Otherwise what is the point of having a high quality 300b amplifier? These more expensive tubes are just better in every regard across the sonic performance-sound quality spectrum.
I've had VAIC- EML XLS-KR XLS-Sophia Electric Royal Princess-Takasuki-Early generation Elrog and 1980s vintage Western Electric 300b. My verdict is There is no single absolute best choice amongst them. Too many variables that can favor one over another. Some of these tubes will sound better in one amplifier compared to another. The overall audio system "voicing " is a key factor.
You would have to hear each of these tubes in your individual and unique system to truly decide what sounds best to you. This is not a practical undertaking for most people. My point is that at the premium tier of 300b they are all excellent options and you will not achieve this performance with the cheaper 300bs.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
