the term "POWERSELLER" of which im proudly part of that group can only be obtained by high volume sales & a feedback profile that stays above 98% positive at all times.
also the term powerseller does not refer to the sellers expertise in any certain area of selling other than the seller is honest & try's to do a good deal.
you cant just look at the power seller icon next to a sellers name & expect the seller to be all knowing because he sells alot,if the guy's feedback shows that most of his feedback come's from selling stuff other than hifi gear then questions need to be asked.
ive done about 200 deals on ebay of which 99% were very nice & went well but i have had a few goofy asses too & in my case the same numbers apply to dealing on audiogon.
my worst experience in a deal was with a buyer who smashed the glass face on a mcintosh amp on purpose in order to get ups to pay an insurance claim which just so happened to include newer stlye end caps that would match his other gear,i checked with a few of the people who left feedback for this guy & the horror stories came pouring in from sellers who had been threatened with viloence & manupliated into sending this guy cash back & this was on audiogon.
its silly for anybody to sit up on their cloud & brand all ebay traders as liars & thieves or ignorant slobs who dont have a clue what their selling beacuse that couldnt be farther from the truth.
mike. |
if you get caught on ebay asking the buyer to pay the paypal fee your auction will be canceled instantly.
i can see not wanting to eat the 3% fee on multi thousand dollar deals but cmom its getting down right silly when a seller asks for 3% on a $500 item & it reek's of pure greed to me.
mike. |
some people like to paint a picture of ebay as the wild west full of bumbling fools who pay way too much for their gear,sellers who are all con artists or ignorant about the gear their selling & where simon bar sinister is lurking around every corner waiting to strike.
the same folks paint a picture of Agon as the sweet polly purebread of internet hifi trading where the sun always shines & the people trading the gear are more honest & trust worthy.
the fact is that both sites serve the same function & each site has its own good points & draw backs & neither site is beyond reproach.
mike. |
treyhoss,damm good point & ive never thought of it like that,come to think of it some sellers may include the 3% fee to encourage buyers to use other methods of payment.
your right,for how exposed paypal leaves a seller the 3% is a drop in the bucket. |
jmcgrogan,that is exactly how i do it,i feel alot safer that way & even if paypal does do a charge back there wont be anything there for them to get & i have the cash,there's alot to be said for having the cash.
one thing though about doing it this way is you will encounter lots of enraged buyers demanding that YOU MUST SHIP NOW!!
its always the same story too,i paid you an INSTANT payment with paypal you need to ship RIGHT NOW!
my answer is always the same too,who was the payment instant for? you or me ? when the cash has been transfered to my account & is in my hot little hands i will ship & not one second sooner.
it kills me how many people DEMAND you be verified to do business with you when its THE KISS OF DEATH for anybody who ever intends to sell anything.
for all you folks who demand a buyer be verified remember when you sell that logic can work against you in a big way.
mike,a non verified member. |
ok fellas dig this,i just had a amp on auction last night on ebay & the high bidder had a recent negative feedback in his profile stating that he had used the paypal charge back to scam the seller.
of coures this sent me into outer space as soon as i saw it so i wrote the seller & asked for a explaination of what happened,below is a copy of his entire email he sent me last night,word for word.
keep in mind that this buyer has great feedback other than the negative stating the charge back,the seller also has a huge feedback rating & its all perfect too.
START.
mike,he purchased a mcintosh mc2300 amp from me for $900,he picked the amp up in person & put it unprotected in the trunk of his car & went home.
he wrote me the next day saying the amp was not working correctly & demanded a partial refund,he filed a complaint with ebay & lost,then he filed a complaint with paypal & lost,then he did a charge back thru his credit card company NOW HE HAS MY AMP & HIS MONEY!
paypal is filing a complaint in my behalf with his credit card company but it takes up to 75 days to process & ive yet to hear a word from them.
this amp was in good working order when it left my house & i believe it still is,he just wanted a partial refund,not a total refund where he would have to return the amp,he wanted a partial refund of $500 in his complaints to ebay & paypal,he was denied on both complaints but due to the credit card company charge back now he has all his cash & my amp!
good luck with him & let me know how it turns out.
END.
the whole deal of being verified works great for buyers & it takes care of a lotta issues for them like buyers remorse or to flat out rip a seller off ,when you supply the credit card info in order to be verified there isnt a thing in the world you can do to stop a charge back.
this isnt a issue of ebay vs audiogon & since were trading here & not ebay were safe its an issue about a dangerous loophole that leaves a honest seller totally at the mercy of idiots & thieves who on a whim can have the gear & the cash & it happens every day.
ive been turned down many times from sellers who refuse to sell gear to a non verified address thinking this in some way protects them,it dont protect anybody but the buyer & will only make it possible for a buyer to legaly rip you off.
mike. |
lousyreeds,im not anti paypal in the slightest in fact i prefer paypal & prefer to use it weather im buying or selling,all im saying is that the confirmed address bit that has taken over is meaningless to a seller & offers no protection to the seller.
what i was lookin for was for somebody to tell me why they insist on a buyer having a verified address before they sell to them,it seems that every body selling gear wants the verification but nobody can explain why & that leaves me a bit confused about the whole thing.
i cant speak for other sellers but i make sure that i tell buyers my methods & most times i ship before the payment is transfered but it all depends on the amount too,if its $5k then it must clear first.
when you stated that i hate escro you were correct,escro is the fastest growing scam out there with copy cat names that decieve buyers into thinking their dealing with escro.com when in reality their getting scammed.
ive also never claimed to be an expert on the best method of payment but having been a victim of scams ranging from money orders to paypal i know the bad points to all the payment methods & it never hurts to pass this info along as most people will never encounter as many con artists as i do,all i have done is try to show buyers how they can be scammed no matter how they pay,im not bitching at all but if somebody had taken the time to point out a few of these things to me & not worry what others think about what they say i may have avoided a few of the scams & saved alot of cash.
im not trying to pin a medal on my chest or anything but im the only member here that admits to selling gear for profit when this place is full of resellers & all i try to do is pass along information that i know to be true in the hopes of saving some other poor guy the grief & loss of cash that i have experienced,its hard to not come off sounding harsh but sugar coated information helps nobody at all.
i also post warnings in every one of my ebay auctions letting buyers know what to look out for & have recieved many emails from audiogon members & ebay buyers alike telling me that the info i gave them helped them avoid a scam.
if i come off as being a know it all its not the case or the intent,just the passing of information from somebody who has been hit with every scam on the planet. |
hi doug,welcome to audiogon.
i have several reasons why i dismiss escro as a buying/selling tool & i'll explain them.
as a seller i refuse to use escro for these reasons.
1 i can set up a safe cod where the package is shipped care of the buyers local ups store where he can inspect the contents at considerable less cost than escro.
2 setting up a escro deal takes quite a bit more time to do than using a simple cod.
3 the buyer gets several days to audition my gear in his rig & refuse to pay for any reason including buyers remorse & because he dont like the way my gear sounds in his rig, buyers will tell escro anything they have to in order to get the deal killed.
4 just putting these words(escro accepted)in your listing will instantly put you on the list for every con man on the planet asking you to sell to them using fake escro,when you check your mail & there is 20 or 30 offers every day all requesting escro its not a "minimunal effort" to cross check this many offers.
5 it takes forever to get cashed out on a deal from escro.
i cant think of a single reason that would make escro appealing to any seller unless the seller has zero or very low feedback or is selling his gear at premium prices to make up for all the drawbacks to his end of the deal.
now for the reasons why i dismiss escro as a buyer.
1 sellers who accept escro are less willing to give a good deal on the gear & in most cases will ask a premiun price in order to make up for all the added hasel & risk of returned gear they are taking.
2 cod is much cheaper than escro & just as safe & much faster too.
i learned the hard way by loosing a ton of cash to con's but in the long run it was cash well spent,i refuse to buy from anybody who is not a proven seller unless its pick up or cod,no other way.
there will always be a few people who dont mind using escro to sell their gear but i can assure you that allmost all established sellers will not use escro unless there is a premium charged to compensate them for accepting terms that do not benefit them in any way at all,they might not tell you their charging a premium but it will be reflected in your final buy price.
my dismissal of escro as it pertains to my buying & selling of gear has nothing to do with my post where i said "escro is one of the fastest growing scams there is",my comment on that was meant for other buyers.
alot of us joke about all the spoof email we get asking for fake escro but in reality its not a joke,these scams work & they work great,even though we all get the same kinda scam email these vultures are not looking for us they are looking for gullable & inexperienced buyers who are lulled into a false sense of saftey by the whole escro deal.
whats easily spotted as a scam to us looks like a safe deal to alot of people & most of these buyers are just like i was when i first started buying,barely able to use a computer & surley not capable of using advanced research tools,even google is advanced for alot of buyers
you were correct that the seller who's email i posted made mistakes but they were not what you mentioned,you can demo the gear for a buyer till the cows come home & have him sign recipts too but none of that will stop a charge back,the seller should of only accepted cash for an in person pick up effectivly taking away the scammers ability to rip him off in the first place.
my whole point in this entire thread was to point out that being verified was only good for a buyer & is very dangerous to a seller to have himself verified.
after doing well over 200 deals between ebay & here at audiogon ive seen it all with escro & charge back scams taking as many victims as money orders & cashiers checks.
all i can do is point out what works for me,just opinions from a guy who has done alot of deals & been burned too.
seeya. |
hi doug,yes a standard cod is flawed & unless im buying i refuse to use the standard door to door cod,when i am buying with door to door cod i only use ups as the driver has been to my house so much that he now allows me to open packages real quick to check contents,the flaws in a standard door to door cod are that the people at ups fail to tell shippers that the drivers are not allowed to take cash & money orders & cashiers checks are easily forged.
fedex is much better at a door to door cod as they do accept cash but most drivers will not allow you to inspect the contents leaving a buyer exposed to opening up a box of bricks.
the best & safest cod a buyer or seller can have is for the package to be sent care of the local ups store or fedex office & for cash or credit being the only payment options,this allows all buyers the chance to inspect contents before paying & it also gives sellers witnesses in the event that the buyer try's a charge back scam where he says the gear sent was the wrong item & eleminates a bad check scam.
every payment method is flawed so its hard to say which one is best or safest,there will always be risks for buyers,ive learned to look at the entire picture a seller presents before making my mind up how i will pay,if the seller is active in the hobby & shows that he's trading gear with feedback from reputable hobbiests then chances are im ok with paypal but if the seller shows that his involvement in trading high end gear is limited then cod is the only way i'll go.
when im selling its easy,no gear goes anywhere until all payments have cleared a seperate account i have set up & that includes all paypal payments.
there's no easy answer to all of this but with time & after doing alot of deals it gets easier to trade.
mike. |
