Dynavector Karat 17D3: retip for $500 or get something new?

Dear @prophos :  I think that no one can tell you if in your system can " sounds better " but between other cartridges these two are good options:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa833b-lyra-delos-moving-coil-cartridge-low-hours-cartridges

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa6aa3-dynavector-dv-20x2l-new-cartridges

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Couple thoughts.  
1. I am a long - term 17D3 Karat owner
And before this model came out I used the earlier versions in this line. It is a fabulous cartridge.  I am assuming your re-tip will be done by Dynavector. I have recently watched a video somewhere on the 'net that shows a critique of "rebuilt" cartridges of dubious quality. I think a dynavector re-tip would be the only one i would trust. 
2. Having said that,  there are a lot of good cartridges out there. I can't say how they'll compare or whether you'll like them better.  I can say I have three other cartridges that are not as good, but they are "Good enough" that I sometimes use them and derive music enjoyment from them.
3. Cost is always a factor. Contentment is, I think,  a better target you shoot for than perfection. 
4.  One more thing. I recently put together a Garrard 401 turntable with 12" Jelco arm, but i installed a Riggle engineering VTAF (vertical tracking angle on the fly) which has enabled me to adjust VTA very easily. This experience had convinced me that,  unless you are willing to play around with VTA  you'll never really know what a cartridge is capable of. 

@prophos - move to another cartridge. If your speakers are not bass efficient, the 17D3 is not for you. I owned one a number of years ago, and while it is brilliant for rock, I felt the bottom end did not have the authority, and I felt it to be thin and bright. 

If you can find an Audio Technica ART9 on the market, grab it. It has since been discontinued and replaced with the ART9XI, which you should consider if you can’t find the ART-9. While I now have a $9000 Air Tight PC-1s, I still say the ART9 is still hands down the best cartridge for the money and bests many cartridges costing 3-4x its price. Do a search on this forum and you will see the massive following on it. It is a very musical, organic, and revealing cartridge. It does almost everything right.

I’m not trying to pick a fight here but the comment above that the cartridge is bright or bass light is exactly what I would expect to hear if the VTA was off. I also thought it was bass light until I dialed it in. Now it is deep, thunderous, tuneful, controlled and superb. I can easily imagine someone comparing this cartridge to a less expensive one that is less sensitive to VTA and thinking that the cheaper cartridge has more bass. Yeah, if it’s set up wrong that would make a lot of sense.
Consider that the replacement cartridge in the line lists for somewhere in the neighborhood of $2000.
But, like I said,  there are a lot of good cartridges out there. People rave about the Denon DL103, and it's much less expensive. 

Dynavector 17D2 mkII is excellent cartridge, today I took a picture of my spare sample, still NOS in the box. 

This is my 4th Dynavector cartridge, and the 1st Dynavector with unique magnetic flux damping and softened magnetism (patent) along with powerful Neodymium magnet that combine to eliminate any hardness or irritating edginess that commonly occurs in many moving coil cartridges. This has also enabled to increase the output of 0.26mV. It has 1.7mm length Diamond cantilever which is much smaller than any conventional cantilever. Karat 17D2 mkII showed a ruler flat response from 100 Hz to 30KHz (under ± 0.5 dB) as you can see on printed individual test for this particular sample. The Micro Ridge of 0.06 square mm nude diamond stylus is carefully mounted in the cantilever. The armature of 0.9mm square and 0.4mm thick is much smaller than normal, upon which are wounded 70 turns per channel of 11 micron fine wire. Dynavector is highly regarded as a manufacturer of the finest high-performance moving coil phono cartridges since 1975. My first Dynavector was a high output DV-30A from the 70’s, released in Japan 1 year before the Karat series. Then I fell in love with Karat 23RS (Ruby) and Karat 17DS Super (Diamond), the sound quality was addictive. At the moment the Karat 17d2 mkII (Diamond) is the highest model in my vault.

I would NEVER let anyone to re-tip it, except for the Dynavector in Japan! 

The question in my mind is whether indeed anyone other than Dynavector can re-tip a 17D3 with its unique 17mm diamond cantilever and stylus.  Because I doubt that anyone but DV can do that, it really is a choice of whether you want to have a "new" cartridge that is a chimera of the 17D3 body with a very different cantilever and stylus or a whiff of the original SQ that you apparently grew to love.  I advise you to send it back to DV.
(Chak, Those B&K frequency response graphs that used to be routinely included in the box with any fine cartridge almost always showed a "ruler flat response".  I've got the one that came with my own 17D3.)

What is clearly stated in the manual:

Either cantilever or stylus of Karat is not replaceable. In the case of the worn stylus, your cartridge is replaced to the new cartridge with special rate charge of the retail price. When the cantilever is broken by any reason, your cartridge is also replaced to the new one with same price from above special rate. The other electrical and mechanical defects are guaranteed except the user’s mishandling or abuse.

P.S. You have to contact Dynavector (or Dynavector Dealer).

I didn’t have the VTA off in any way shape or form. I’m not alone in my interpretation of the 17D3. I’m not implying that the cartridge is “bass light”, I mentioned it lacks authority, which is subjective, but to me means worthy of me acknowledging it sounds real and deserves my attention. And when I say the cartridge is thin and bright, I don’t mean that it is only through the bass. While the 17D3 is likely amongst the neutral and most articulate and dynamic sounding cartridges available in its price range, it doesn’t add a lot of body or musicality across the spectrum that others crave in more expensive MC cartridges.

But is it bad for the money? Absolutely not. For example, I actually replaced the 17D3 with a popular Shelter 501 MK2 which is in a similar price range. The Shelter did add some of the midrange warmth, but at the expense of slowing down attacks and rounding off the frequency extensions.

It wasn’t until I got to the ART9 a few cartridges later that the bar was so significantly raised because it brought both the tonal and holographic realism and the resolution. I am not alone in this perspective either, if you review the threads on this cartridge in this forum. Dozens of folks swear by it, and many of those have not felt the need to move on to a different cartridge for years.
I have even tried the flagship Audio Technica ART1000 to succeed the ART9. While it was more resolving, I actually preferred the tonal balance of the ART9 and didn’t feel that the ART1000 was worth 4x the MSRP. I landed with the Air Tight for guidance received on forums and reviews that folks who wanted to push past the ART9 should consider it a next step. I’m glad I did, but it’s an endgame cartridge that is not easily attained.

These cartridges were installed on a VPI Classic signature with the 3D arm and Nordost reference wire. The table and cartridges were aligned using a stylus scale, an adjustable VTA base, and a Fosgometer and Soundsmith Counterintuitive for the azimuth. Loading settings were controlled by one of three stages at the time - Fozgate Signature Phono, Modwright SWP 9.0 SE, and now Modwright PH 9.0.

I have since upgraded to the Clearaudio Innovation Wood.

With all of those changes across the years, the most satisfying changes were finding the ART9 cartridge (I’ve owned three), and the Modwright phono stages, which are absolute giant killers once tubes are rolled right.

ART-9 topic is irrelevant today, this is discontinued cartridge and our friend Pani replaced it with EMT 75th Anniversary after all, the hype is over. 
My Dynavector 17d2mk2 (for example) designed for light mass tonearms. The compliance at 100hz is 15cu and it’s about 27cu at 10hz - this is a high compliance for MC cartridge and tonearm choice is important. 
There are many unique features in Dynavector cartridges. Great cartridge, the rest is just speculations. There are always 20 more cartridges to buy. 

Here is another post on retipping this Dynavector model

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/re-tipping-dynavector17d/post?postid=2089249#2089249

I can say from personal experience that Sound Smith will not re-tip the 17D3. Dynavector is the only place to send it/ swap it. 

@chakster The ART9 discussion may be old but not irrelevant. And just because one person replaced his with a cartridge over twice the price doesn’t mean it’s not a great cartridge. I replaced mine with one six times it’s price, yet I still recommend it. 

This is not about hype. That thread happened 3-5 years ago. People still go crazy over cartridges like the DV-XV1s and Koetsu, both which have been in the running for over a decade.

And if you read my initial recommendation, it was to also look for the ART9XI, which succeeded the original ART9 and is available today. And though I have moved on to other cartridges myself, I still recommend the ART9 or ART9XI. 

Regarding Dynavector, I also own the DV-XV1s and DV-XX2 MK2 in my collection. I think they are fantastic cartridges, and this isn’t a bash on Dynavector. 

Should the OP want to retip the cartridge, reach out to Steve Leung of VAS audio. He is a top notch guy, and his office is the next suite over from VPI. His retips are excellent, and I’ve had three carts done by him myself.

thiefoflight, It's not a matter of the quality of work done by whatever aftermarket re-tipper one might choose for the 17D3.  I am sure your guy is fine, and so too are many others in that business.  The point is that no aftermarket re-tipper can supply the very special 17mm diamond cantilever and stylus that was mounted on a 17D3 OEM.  So far as I know, no one can source this assembly except DV.  This is a rather unique situation, compared to conventional cartridges.  Now, if you just want a new tip without regard to the fact that you would also be getting a cantilever that was not designed for the cartridge, you of course could choose to do that (maybe).  But you wouldn't expect such a Frankenstein to perform similarly to an original 17D3.

I currently have a 17D2 and D3, I also have a Karat 23, which I was listening to (via?) one evening when half way through the album side the the sound took a sudden dive in quality. A quick look revealed a very dirty (fluff) stylus which was strange as I always brush the album side before playing, a clean stylus made no difference, taking the cartridge off and inspecting it under a microscope revealed that the diamond was displaced in the cantilever (in comparison to my 17d's) on this particular cantilever the diamond appeared to have been set into an open ended slot and that most of the diamond was sticking out of the back with hardly any of the tip showing. If my understanding of the Dynavector cantilevers is correct (it may not be) they secured the diamond either in a hole or a slot (I find it difficult to believe that the end of the cantilever broke off in front of the stylus). Perhaps you should re-examine your stylus to ensure that you haven't experienced the same problem. By the way I managed to push the diamond back into position, but couldn't secure it, so maybe a skilled re-tipper could successfully re-secure a displaced diamond. Having been using Dynavectors for quite a while the result of my inquiries (many years ago) about re-tipping are in accord with those above, Dynavector were the only manufacturer to use the ruby/diamond assembly as fitted to the 17 and 23 series, they did not supply re-tippers and they did not allow the cantilever/stylus manufacturers to supply re-tippers so the only option was/is a trade in.

More information about different versions of KARAT cartridges is HERE

 taking the cartridge off and inspecting it under a microscope revealed that the diamond was displaced in the cantilever (in comparison to my 17d's) on this particular cantilever the diamond appeared to have been set into an open ended slot and that most of the diamond was sticking out of the back with hardly any of the tip showing.

@pcutter1 

This is my 17DS mkII under a macro lens, I have no idea how anyone can re-tip it, very bad idea! 

@chakster , none of the links to your images are working

I post temporary links only, you are late. But what is the question? 

I just wanted to chime in, as a commenter in one of the relevant discussions linked to above. I had my Dynavector 17D (original) re-tipped by Joseph Long, and it sounds incredible.

If you're near KY and would like to see the craftsmanship in person and hear how it sounds on my setup, you are welcome to stop by. There's no amount of convincing I can do in a forum that would stand up to the impressive music it creates in my system. 

Joseph is on eBay as "cartridge_retipping-5". If he can retip an original 17D, he can retip a 17D3. Feel free to message me directly if you're looking for any more info on my experience or the result. 

@chakster , np. Just wanted to make sure you knew they had expired. It's why I post up links to Google Drive, so they can be accessed months/years later. 

Ok, look at this and tell me how can you re-tip it? This is KARAT 17RS with MicroRidge stylus. It’s Diamond cantilever, try to detect any glue aroung the tip. Now post a picture of your re-tipped sample and we will see.

I can’t find an image of re-tipped Diamond, but this is a picture of re-tipped RUBY and it’s AWFUL! Huge drop of epoxy glue around the cantilever (this is a typical re-tippers job).

Look at the original Ruby and Diamond cantilevers in this manual.

Dear heyitsmedusty, It would be interesting if your re-tipper was able to replace like with like.  That is, did he install a 17mm diamond cantilever with diamond tip?  Was the tip the same shape as per the OEM stylus?  If those two requirements were met, then you have some news for the rest of us.  Can you tell us what he installed on your 17D?
If he just did a generic re-tip, and if you like it a lot, that is fine but not a revelation.  I don't think anyone claimed that a re-tip on a 17D cannot be done.  What we are saying is that aftermarket re-tippers don't have access to the OEM 17mm diamond cantilever/stylus assembly and so cannot replace like with like.  So if the new cantilever and stylus are not identical to original, then the cartridge is fundamentally changed.  It could even be better than original, for all I know, but it is definitely different from original.

@chakster , I don’t performing any re-tipping services, so I’m sorry I can’t answer your question about how.

My only experience with re-tipping Karat cartridges was through Joseph on my 17D, so you’re right I can’t guarantee that he can also do a 17D3. The original poster would have to ask him directly, or @needlestein . I would imagine its possible as I believe the stylus is mounted in the cantilever the same on both cartridges; laser-drilled hole in solid diamond cantilever, stylus shank fixed in the hole, probably with a tiny amount of glue to keep it there.

As covered in the other discussion posted above, which you were involved in, the re-tipping does use more glue than the original mounting. In theory, the tiny additional mass from the glue would have a negligible to non-existent impact on the sound, which has been verified by my ears as the cartridge sounds terrific! Your ears may hear something different, and my invitation to you from the previous thread stands, to stop by for a listen if you ever find yourself nearby.

I’ve included a link to the re-tip job done on my 17D. It’s ok if you feel the need to say negative things about it as you did on the previous thread, because your opinion does not affect the sound of the cartridge. :)

https://imgur.com/gallery/i7m3i7V

@lewm the re-tipping I had done did not include a cantilever replacement, just the stylus. And you are correct that the stylus he attached is not the exact same as the micro-ridge originally used. I'm sure the character has changed somewhat from the original stylus. I think most re-tipping efforts will change the sound somewhat, for better or worse, depending on the quality of materials and craftsmanship. 

All I can really speak for is my own experience, which was exceedingly positive. 

From my correspondence with Joseph:

" I saw your question on Audiogon. Yes, it is possible to remove the Namiki Micro Ridge diamond from the square hole on the end of the 17D3 cantilever and fit a new one. I have done so, myself, so I know it is possible. Yours is an older model with an Ogura diamond cantilever that is just a slot. This would be or should be somewhat easier to do than the completely surrounded Micro Ridge. I have done a zillion Ogura slotted cantilevers.

Please see the photos I have included. In fact, I have retipped these using every method you inquire about successfully depending on the needs of the cantilever. Most of the time, people send me one that is already broken, so I don’t have a choice. They want to keep the diamond cantilever, and sometimes there is no hole or slot left anymore. It’s no problem. I install a surface mount type diamond which I have in stock. These are very short Gyger 2 or Micro Ridge. If the hole is broken and now more like a slot, I can install a full height Micro Ridge. Yours is not a Micro Ridge but an Ogura and it’s a slot, not a hole.

One of my latest feedbacks, if not the latest one, involves a 17D3, the one in the top photo. The customer is very pleased."

Same story again. I’m not sure why do you think everyone should praise some third party re-tipper even if you like your cartridge?


I prefer to pay for a NOS cartridge, not to retipper’s pocked.


Dynavector KARAT cartridges are not so expensive. I just don’t use or buy any retipped or refurbished cartridges (no more, never again).
I believe the Dynavector in Japan can work on those carts better than anyone in this world if someone wish to fix a broken sample. But they will replace the whole cantilever.


Some KARAT cartridges can be purchased for $700-1500 (NEW/NOS). I still have unused 17D2 mk2, shipped another sample to a fellow audiogon member. Also owned Karat 17DS and Ruby 23MR. 

@chakster , I’m sorry if you interpreted my experience as a request for others to praise my re-tipper. I think everyone should form their own opinion, as I have done.

Just to clear up any confusion readers may have from Chakster, I am not requesting that anyone praise anyone. I do hope I have conveyed my own positive experience accurately.

When considering the poster's original question regarding the cost/benefit of just getting a new cartridge vs re-tipping, as one of the few people who have had a Dynavector Karat cartridge re-tipped, I just wanted to share my own experience. I think that's what this forum is all about, right? It's all subjective, and people with relevant experiences throw in their 2 cents!

Right, but I already explained from the technical point of view why re-tipping is not good, so anyone can find and read it. I have not seen any re-tipped sample of KARAT that looks like original.

…..in your opinion.
Thanks for the detailed and informative response, Dusty. It seems your guy can get closer to the original spec than I would have thought.

Sorry to come on so late. I would have come on sooner but I only randomly discovered this thread today. I’ve said in the other thread about Dusty’s Dynavector all I need to say about the art of retipping. Anyone who will just flatly out of hand denounce a practice that thousands of others find useful, practical, worthwhile, satisfying and even and improvement over what they had before is probably dwelling on a bad experience or two. Nothing is perfect. Nothing works for everybody--not even brand new cartridges. But it seems there is almost limitless faith in OEM manufacturers even when flaws are discovered, but faith in retippers evaporates entirely with the slightest issue. I don’t see a lot of imagination in that attitude, but it is what it is. I don’t expect to ever find a cartridge of Chakster’s under my microscope. But as of today I have 1,050 customers on eBay alone in only three years who are happy to tell others how good their experience was. I assume that many of them are actually "delighted." I get a lot of repeat business. I repair cartridges that cost many thousands of dollars brand new for not a lot of money and they operate as well as new or better. Dusty just adds one more to that number as he found me off eBay. Some of my repeat customers have some insanely expensive systems, the value of which I can only guess, but I am sure in some cases that $250,000 would be a low estimate. Why would someone with obviously that kind of disposable income retip a cartridge when they can just buy a new one and anything they would want under the sun? Because some people really like what they have and they want to stick with it. I can’t imagine a scarier client, really. This isn’t someone who hasn’t heard a certain cartridge before on a so so system. This is someone whose ear is tuned to s certain cartridge they know intimately in an extremely revealing system in an intimate familiar space and they don’t want what they’ve got disturbed. And yet they come to me and they come back with repeat business.

I can talk all day long about how little cement I use, and why there may be a little bit extra in some cases and how the mass of the glue is so vanishingly low it doesn’t affect anything. I am extremely clean and use cement sparingly as it is. But I have assembled what I consider to be an impressive book of clients including people whose names you would recognize, who are musicians with trained ears as well as professional sound engineers--these people have ears and discriminating tastes and very little patience for flawed sound. If I can make them happy, that’s good enough for me.

 

 

 

Why would someone with obviously that kind of disposable income retip a cartridge when they can just buy a new one and anything they would want under the sun? Because some people really like what they have and they want to stick with it. I can’t imagine a scarier client, really. This isn’t someone who hasn’t heard a certain cartridge before on a so so system. This is someone whose ear is tuned to s certain cartridge they know intimately in an extremely revealing system in an intimate familiar space and they don’t want what they’ve got disturbed. And yet they come to me and they come back with repeat business.

It’s good for advertising, but in reality once their cartridge retipped or refurbished they can’t send it back to the manufacturer for exchange for a new one (if they really like the original sound), so they can only continue with their favorite retipper, if it’s just a new tip then it’s ok, but if it’s different cantilever then who knows. Some specific models are way different and many retippers refuse to work with them (because they know it won’t be as good as the original). So everything depends on a cartridge and its design/materials/parts.

I wonder why people have not discovered MM or MI yet ? Genuine user replaceable stylus is the answer to all the problems.

On the other hand I have a question for manufacturers of MC cartridges, seems like they are losing their customers after first sale. 

Seriously?  
 

There are people who prefer moving coil cartridges right along with their inconveniences because they prefer the sound to MM and MI.  There are also MM and MI cartridges that don’t utilize a replaceable  stylus system like Grado woodies. B&O MMC, and Clearaudio (although Clearaudio really is user replaceable, just go to YouTube and plenty of people will show you how).

There are also people who use MM and MI cartridges that at one time had a user replaceable option, but now they don’t.  Stanton, Pickering, old Grado, Shure.  For many people, the aftermarket replacements just aren’t good enough for some reason.  If you want to keep your extremely rare and irreplaceable beryllium foil cantilever on you Shure V15 various models and you’ve worn out your Micro Ridge, what do you do?  Many people try the Jico SAS and they just don’t think it sounds the same and so the Type IV, Type V and Type Vx stylus will come to me for a fresh Micro Ridge.

I upgrade diamonds and cantilevers on original Shure M97xE styli regularly because now that Shure is out of manufacturing cartridges, people want to keep their original stylus and have it retipped and upgraded to a nude diamond.  They don’t want the aftermarket stylus.
 

On the other end of the spectrum, people have very expensive cartridges and they just want a new diamond.  I replace the Gyger S on a LOT of Benz Micro cartridges because I’m faster, less expensive, and trusted.  I don’t replace the whole cantilever.  I replace just the diamond.  Benz charges thousands to do this depending on the model.  It’s not that they owner can’t go to the manufacturer.  They don’t want to.

I replace EMT, Jan Allaerts, Brinkmann, Koetsu, Kiseki, Air Tight, Dynavector, Benz Micro—anything.  I’m just as happy replacing the bonded conical on a Shure Whitelabel and, not surprisingly, I have plenty of business doing those because Whitelabel fans don’t seem to like the Jico replacement stylus.

I enjoy doing them all and I think each job is fun.  Getting paid for it is truly a bonus and also necessary so I can keep buying supplies.  I listen to awesome stereo, my favorite LPs all night in my headphones while listening to cartridges I just repaired and I have a blast doing it.  It’s my favorite thing in the world and I hope I can do it for a very long time into the future.

If you really think MM and MI solve all the problems, then why do MC cartridges even exist?  

 

Needlestein, It's good for us vinylistas to know you are out there.  Thank you for posting.  Some MI cartridges do not have user replaceable "styli", but they do have user replaceable modules that may include all or part of the transducing mechanism, like B&O MMC types or Acutex 300 series cartridges.  (I don't know about Grado.)  If I am not correct on that, please do let me know.  I don't know of any Stanton or Pickering models that do not have user replaceable styli.  The problem is that OEM replacements are very scarce, for the really good vintage models.

B&O are sealed MI.  There is no reusesble module unless you’re using “module” to mean cartridge.  They can be retipped, but the suspensions must be evaluated as they often fail.  When the suspension fails, it can be expensive to repair.  At that point I usually just advise clients to purchase a Sound Smith SMMC of their choice. Acutex 300 series is a standard type replaceable stylus and about once a year a good stash seems to show up on the auction site.  Better and best Stanton and Pickering model original styli are very hard to find, but I retip them pretty often.  There were some excellent replacement styli for those made decades ago.  The more recent ones, even the expensive ones, are just okay compared to originals.  But if someone’s never heard what an original can do, I can see them being delighted because they still sound a lot better than a lot of what’s out there new now, so long as sibilance is not a problem.  Sibilance has always been an issue with the better and best Stanton and Pickering aftermarket styli.

Needlestein, if my MMC1 looks perfect under my microscope and if it doesn’t collapse at its standard 1.0g VTF, may I assume it’s ok? I recently noticed some distortion and I’m trying to track down the source.

A Little of Topic but in keeping with how the Thread has been going in direction.

I am not adverse to having a MC Cartridge Rebuilt and have my own working rebuilt models in use and a few MC's in a Queue to be rebuilt as and when the desire and funds allows for such a Luxurious endeavor.

I am, when the opportunities arise listening to New Cartridges up to £3000+ retail value, and have a few of these experiences undertaken in the past months, as well as having revisited longer owned MC's from a similar price bracket and assessing how they have settled into the system they are used within.

As of yet, I am not  discovering any New Model Cartridges that have been able to encourage me to change direction and cough up the funds to purchase a New Cartridge, and put a rebuilt model on the Sub's Bench.

Cartridge owners, especially when it boils down to making a purchase at a certain price range are quite critical in their assessments and in my experience are very tuned into how to get the Cartridge to reveal the Strength's / Weakness's / Attractors / Detractors that are on offer from a particular model.

When an individual who has spent substantial monies on a Cartridge and after a long period of familiarity and use, are suspecting the model has offered it best, come to the decision to have the Cartridge Inspected by a professional Service, whether it be a return to a Manufacturer, Manufacturer Agent, or Third Party Service. Where is the fault in this approach to seek out a professional assessment and decide on a method to treat and issues discovered and continue with using the the Cartridge in a overhauled condition.

When the Cartridge is returned the recollection of the Cartridge when Brand New with limited use, is but a very distant memory.                                                            The recollection of the deteriorated Cartridge in its final hours of usage with the knowing that wear and tear were contributing to the SQ will be the most memorable.                                                                                                                A Cartridge put back into use following any treatments from a respectable overhaul service and without too much time delay between the last play and the play of the new supplied Cartridge will show an improvement that creates a very good impression as a comparison. 

As the owner of the Cartridge has already shown they have a knowledge on how to set up and extract the best from a Cartridge, these principles will most likely be carried out for the returned Cartridge.

If the Cartridge Owner is very impressed by the new experience being encountered and feels sure they have made a very good choice, it is not possible to see where there is room to confront the method chosen as not being a correct choice for the individual. If this impression has been created by a Third Party Service, it should not matter one iota. This is just one of many reasons why there is a Healthy Thriving Business and Clientele in Queues awaiting a Overhaul / Rebuild Service.  

        

“Needlestein, if my MMC1 looks perfect under my microscope and if it doesn’t collapse at its standard 1.0g VTF, may I assume it’s ok? I recently noticed some distortion and I’m trying to track down the source”

 

First, I have to ask what “perfect” means, as I don’t want to assume that you are using a powerful enough microscope to actually see the wear flats. No offense, but just as a troubleshooting exercise, I would have to ask.

Now, assuming the diamond does look perfect the next suspect is the suspension. After a few decades, they just fail. That’s about it. I can sometimes “mend” the suspensions without opening up the cartridge and replacing the parts because I have not figured out what cement to use. Nothing I have tried thus far has worked well. Lately, I really haven’t had time to really investigate possible adhesives. B&O cartridges may in fact use two different adhesives as the rubber grommet has to bind to very smooth hard plastic on one surface and metal on the other surface.

The suspensions of the MMC5 models seem to fail a lot less often than the others. I assume that due to the lower compliance spec, they are made of a more stable, durable elastomer. I will often upgrade these with higher level cantilevers and diamonds to get close to the performance of the higher MMC cartridges. Customer response has been more than favorable. Other people will rebuild them, but I have heard mixed responses about rebuilt units which is why I recommend new Sound Smith when someone wants a rebuilt unit.

My MMC1 was NOS before I started using it. Now has ~50 hours at most, in a DV505 or Triplanar tonearm (have had it mounted in both). You’re correct; I can’t evaluate the stylus but I can see everything else under my lab microscope. It’s not riding “low”. I think I found and fixed the problem which was due to the TP damper paddle riding too close to the bottom of its trough. Also I increased VTF to 1.15g, with some trepidation.

I think I'm kinda late chiming in on this thread, but I only recently really *got* what @needlestein has been doing. After looking at the hundreds of pictures of his work he's posted on Instagram and the 1,100 positive feedback scores he's gotten on ebay I am thinking he's got some pretty solid skills. 

I expect to be sending one or more cartridges to him to be rebuilt.