For more than 40 years Dynavector has been producing very high quality moving coil cartridges in Japan. Sadly we don't have a dedicated Dynavector thread here on audiogon. It would be nice to collect info about some nice rare models in one topic.
My first Dynavector was high output model, very attractive headshell integrated as one piece - Dynavector DV-30A was released in Japan 1 year before the Karat series and 4 years before the fabulous Karat Nova. The first high output Moving Coil Dynavector DV-30 series was the next generation of the Ultimo cartridges. The Ultimo’s were manufactured by Onlife Research Inc., which later became Dynavector. The 30-series was introduced in 1978 with 3 different models DV-30A & DV-30B (HOMC) and DV-30C (LOMC). Till the early 80s it was top of the line Dynavector models....
But then the KARAT was released with short Ruby and Diamond cantilevers (depends on the model). I've been looking for KARAT for a long time, i found the Dynavector KARAT 23RS special calibrated version with Micro Ridge stylus tip and prism Ruby cantilever. This particular model has been introduced in 1988 and claimed to be superior to the earlier generation of Karat carts. I'd like to seek more info about this rare cartridge, but very little info available online. Anyone can comment on Karat Ruby 23RS mkI (not mkII) ?
I know some mebers are enjoing the more expensive Karat Nova series, XV-1, XX-2, Te Kaitora Rua etc
Here is a nice interview with Dr Tominari of Dynavector Systems, who designed the first gemstone cantilever cartridge and later designed fabulous XV-1 and DRT XV-1. In this interview you will find more about Te-Kaitora cartridges, Karat Nova series and many more amazing products of that era.
here is a bit from the interview:
RG. The first Dynavector product I became aware of was the original Karat cartridge, with its solid ruby cantilever. Were you the first person to employ gemstone cantilevers?
Dr. Tominari: Absolutely. I get my gemstone cantilevers from Namiki, and the first time I asked them about constructing one they couldn’t understand what I wanted such a large stylus for! But I was convinced that you should use as short and stiff a cantilever as possible. This was quite widely recognised but no one believed that the technology existed to create such a short gemstone cantilever. They thought it was impossible but I dared to try it. It was a very unusual solution at that time. In order to achieve it we had to develop a parallel technique that enabled us to wind incredibly fine wire for the coil. Our wires are only 11 microns in diameter. Every other cartridge uses at least 20 microns.
RG. Why do the fine wires help you use in using a short cantilever?
Dr. Tominari: At the end of the cantilever is the armature. On the very short gemstone cantilevers there is no space, so the armature must be much smaller than normal. Unless we use the fine wire for the coils there will be insufficient windings for a working output level. We did this twenty years ago, and are still the only company who can use such fine wire. Eric Rohmann, who was president of Ortofon until some years ago, even tried to buy one of our machines. Incidentally, you are aware that Ortofon and Grado hold all the patents on moving-coil cartridge designs. Dynavector was the only Japanese company that ever paid the licence fees. (Laughs)
Let’s wain till @lewm will check them out, because i do not have the ART-7 or ART-9 to compare and why should i concern about those ATs? You sold yours as far as i know, so the flavour of the month faded away.
I like $500-700 cartridges (or let’s say under $1200 max), some of them are amazing and this is the right price tag for "normal" audiophiles. I am more happy to buy $700 cartridge every 3 month while i am searching for perfection, than spending $3k on the wrong LOMC once and then another 60% of that price for retip.
In fact Stanton CS-100 WOS and Pioneer PC-1000 mkII moving magnet cartridges are so good in my system than i can’t remove them. Still unbeatable by any expensive LOMC imo.
Lats night i have mounted DV 23RS MR (special calibrated with Micro Ridge stylus) and i was blown away, i was sceptical about it, but this cartridge is so fast, so dynamic, so real. It’s easily compete with FR-7f, but DV 23RS MR is mid-high compliance (at least 26cu @10Hz) and low mass cartridge for lighweigh tonearms (i would recommend for Technics tonearms).
I am happy to join Dynavector fan club.
P.S. My buddy @nandrik should try those Dyna, highly recommended
Thanks everybody. It looks like a nice Dynavector Fan Club here.
I have a question: Will you accept (for example) rare DV 23RS MR in mint condition if the Ruby Cantilever is slightly off-centered? I’m not sure what to do, got the cartridge today from the postman, delivered from USA and supposed to be excellent with box and all the docs, but the cantilever is not perfectly centered :( (bad luck)
Actually i have a few other cartridges with conventional long cantilevers, some of them are off-centered, but i can twist the cart in headshell and make it spot on with Feickert protractor. Unfortunately it’s not possible with every headshell, but it can be done with some headshells.
However, i’m not happy that seller offerend me Dyna with cantilever turned to one side (and never mentioned this problem), i am a bit mad about it, i think i can return it for full refund. But it's a rare cartridge with Micro Ridge stylus, the overall package looks mint.
I don't know about recent Dynavectors, but I owned the original Dyna Ruby and in a Syrinx PU-1 arm and Linn Sondek table, it made magic thru my Counterpoint SA-2 headamp and ARC amplification.
On the other hand, I also had their first "20" high output cartridge briefly in my second system and didn't like it at all. Completely different sound, and not a great tracker.
Chakster, Thanks for digging up the old quote from Raul. It seems my recollection of his opinion was in error. You guys have stimulated me to mount up the 17D3 and compare it to my Audio Technica ART7. The two are in the same price range. In fact, because I have two DV505s, I can audition them side by side in the same type tonearm.
I own several Dynavector cartridges and also the DV-501 bi-axis tonearm. I currently have the DV-10x5, DV-23R (purchased as NOS) and the DV-17D2 and the DV-30C (re-tipped with an aluminum cantilever/spherical stylus). The 10x5 has a solid lively sound and enough output for a MM only phono pre. The 23R and the 17D2 both have a smooth and natural sound, with the 17D2 having better bass response. I've also owned plenty of other mid-range cartridges, but all things considered, I keep coming back to the 23R; it has a spaciousness and an ease that I prefer over the 17D2. It also tracks superbly at 1.6 grams in the 501 arm. I'd like to find a NOS 23RS to try.
All my Dynavectors benefit in terms of dynamics and presentation from running through my Bob's Devices SUT, and are also a great match with the P75 phono preamp (I had the MkII version).
Here is what i found using time machine on this forum about rare Dynavector 23RS and 17DS
first quote from David's post in 2011:
My first listen (about 1 hour) to the Dynavector DV-23RS last night.... this cartridge sounds clearly different to all the others I have tried. Much too early to get analytic about it - and I will test it thoroughly in due course... but there is definitely something to the short cantilever thing.... Other than the Decca, I don't believe I know of other short cantilever cartridges.... - David @dlaloum
secong quote is from Raul's old post:
I own the 23R and owned the 17DS and Nova 17D2, both an improvement over the 23R. On those times the latest and top of the line was the Nova 13D that was very expensive but where any one that had the opportunity to own it or heard it always told was just great. -Raul
If we will look at Dynavector catalog of cartridges we will not find anything with Ruby cantilever anymore. But the Diamond cantilever is still there on 17D3.
"Its very short (1.7mm) solid diamond cantilever give a huge reduction in 'frequency dispersion', unmatched dynamics and a high frequency extension all the way up to 100kHz. The latest patented magnet circuit design increases the output to 0.3mV with crystal clear mid-range and treble even during the largest symphonic crescendos.
The main change to the new Dynavector 17D3 is an improvement in the design of the front yoke. This appears, on the surface, to be a small difference yet contributes to a greatly improved overall performance justifying a model number change. The Dynavector Karat is notable for its gemstone cantilever. This 1.7mm long by 0.25mm diameter solid diamond cantilever has its 0.07 square mm stylus mounting hole precision cut by laser. The Micro Ridge Stylus of 0.07 square mm nude diamond is securely and accurately bonded to the cantilever. The armature of 0.9mm square and 0.4mm thick is much smaller than normal, upon which are wound 60 turns per channel of 12 micron fine wire."
Specs for 17D3 in comparison of the specs for 17DS:
Output Voltage:
0.3 mV ///////
0.2 mV (5 cm / sec 1 kHz)
Channel Separation:
25 dB
/////// 20 dB (1 kHz)
Frequency response:
20 - 100,000Hz ///////
20 - 90,000Hz
Compliance:
15 x 10-6 /////// 15 x 10-6 cm/dyn
Tracking force:
1.8 - 2.2 grams ///////
1.7 - 2.0 grams
DC resistance:
32Ω ///////
32Ω Cantilever:
1.7mm length, 0.25dia solid diamond //// .... ??? Stylus:
Micro-Ridge .... ///////
0.08 × 3 mil Micro-Ridge
Weight
5.8 g
///////
5.3 g
Thanks, effischer. I own three DV tonearms, two 505s and one 501. Mike Pranko helped me out more than once to obtain parts for these tonearms. Among distributors, he is one of the good guys.
FWIW, there are two DV sites: Japan and the US distributor. US link here: http://www.dynavector-usa.com/dynavector_dynavector.html. The 17D3, TKR and others are all still available from the US operation although some may be NOS. I've found them very helpful and responsive over the years. Mike Pranko there might be a good source for background on some of the finer points of DV history.
As I recall, the Karat 23 was the first iteration and always had a ruby cantilever and silver body, followed by 23R, 23RS and finally MR 23RS (I think that's how the nomenclature on the label went). The MR was the micro ridge edition. The Karat 17 was presented in a gold tone body with the diamond cantilever. I believe it went 17, 17D, 17D2 to the present 17D3. I loved my 23s and was disappointed I couldn't readily achieve the results I expected with the 17. I was very enamored of the short gemstone cantilever design.
That said, things change and the XX2 I have now is definitely a superior product to the 23 or 17.
Thanks for the clarification. I noticed that the 17 D3 is not listed on the Dynavector website as a current product. In fact the only cartridges listed under the moving coil section are the 20 X2 and the DV 1S and T models. Yet I think you can still buy a new 17 D3. And I think you can buy the Te katura Rua as well, at least.
Andy Kim might know more; he retips cartridges, based in Seattle. I called him about a Koetsu Rosewood and Accuphase AC2. He was courteous and businesslike, but when I mentioned my 23R Karat, his entire tone changed — “Wow, you have a 23 Ruby? That’s a great cartridge.” Seems he’s a Dynavector fan, can’t hurt to drop him a line.
I’m scant on details about mine. Chakster knows far more than I, yet even he has some blank areas. It was NOS, I’ve put only ±30 hours on it. Cantilever is the ruby prism, with a line-contact stylus. But “line-contact” seems to be a broad generic term, without the specificity of a branded design, such as VdH. I have two Fidelity Research models, both called line-contact, but the Dyna is very different, much skinnier — the shank is as thin as the Shure Micro-Ridge. Could it be the Micro-Reach, without saying so?
The packaging is unclear; I think Dyna made many small changes but put them in older existing boxes with no change to the text. The 23R body clarifies little, it only has a tiny plaque on one side saying Dynavector, no “Karat” plaque as I’ve seen on some others. Could mean it’s an early model — or they ran out Karat plaques.
I hope someone can shed a little more light. All I know is that I share much of Andy’s enthusiasm...
- "D" is for diamond cantilever, "R" is for ruby cantilever. - "MR" is for "Micro Reach" aka Micro Ridge stylus profile. - "S" is for special calibrated models as far as i know
These applies to the classic models made up to the late 80s, the 17d2 is from 1988.
Earlier models from the 70’s does not have Micro Ridge profiles, they are not special calibrated, i believe they are not as good as the "S" and "MR" upgraded versions.
The "D3" and later models are modern Dynavector cartridges from the 90’s and later on.
bpoletti, I wasn't trying to be funny when I mentioned Raul. He has auditioned the 17 vs the 23; he wrote about it on the old big MM thread. On the other hand, I can imagine why you found it funny. I think Raul preferred the 23.
As to all the alphabetical suffixes mentioned by Chakster et al (DS, MR, etc), I am not sure what they mean. What is the difference between the 17D3 and the 17DS, let alone the 17DS MR? My 17D3 has a micro-ridge styus, I think, which should merit an "MR" suffix. Also what is the difference between the 17 series and the 23 series? The latter do not seem to be marketed any longer.
I have a Dynavector Karat 23R cartridge, and a Dynavector 6A silvered step-up transformer both of which I bought new, and neither of which has been used for 25 years. (The rest of the vinyl set up consisted of a SOTA ruby turntable and a Linn Ittok II tonearm). Perhaps I’ll try setting it up again some day. Or, perhaps not.
@chakster Thought I'd mention that cart in the context of your thread. I have heard some DVs that are quite good and some others that are... But that just proves that even in a single model of cart there can be variations in performance. Such is the nature of building such microscopic mechanical devices. :)
@bpoletti yep, i've seen many Karat Nova samples for sale in the past few years, but this time i'm not looking for headshell integrated versions. Our @dover made some nice posts about them, including those about Raul's re-cantilevered sample installed upside down in the original shell and listed for sale like that.
Also this Karat Nova is overpriced all the time, the 23RS Ruby MR and 17DS Diamond MR both have better value even NOS.
My first LOMC was a Karat 23 back in 1981 and it opened a whole new world for me. I wore it out and did the factory re-tip program (basically a 50% credit against a new cartridge). Wore that one out too and got the 23 RS, then later a RS MR. Life happened while I had that one, and it ended up lasting until I refurbished my entire system back in 2011. Another factory re-tip brought home a 17 D3. The process of installing that uncovered a bunch of issues in my Magnepan arm and attempting to repair those uncovered more issues in my table suspension.
After getting a new Graham Phantom and my table rebuilt, I discovered that the Graham didn't have enough adjustability to get the correct tracking force on such a light cart without modification. That was VERY irritating, especially since I verified the Graham manual stated it had the range needed before plunking down $5K for it.
I tried to work around with Blue Tack and other non-resonant materials to get a decent balance, but none of them seemed to be acoustically neutral and they were all fugly besides. I can say that the 17 D3 had an extended high frequency range compared to the 23 RS MR. That was pretty astounding considering the 23 test chart showed essentially flat response to over 100kHz. Bass was a bit tighter too, but didn't seem as natural. I chalked that up to the VTF work-arounds.
In the process of yet another mount-dismount cycle trying to get everything just so, I discovered that the 17 D3 cantilever had cracked at the stylus: A perfect semi-elipse. Dynavector was very good about it and gave me another 50% re-tip credit, and this time I put it toward an XX2 Mk II.
The extra mass made all the difference with the Graham and finally allowed everything to function as designed, which is magnificently indeed. The excellent customer service from DV, the natural and uncolored nature of the DV LOMC sound and the superior price-to-performance ratio have made a customer for life here. One day, I'd like to go to the XV-1S, but that needs other bits to create maximum synergy. Maybe if I win a lottery...
That's my story anyway. Hope it gives you some detail you find useful. Happy listening!
Amongst the classic Dynavector LOMC i see not only 23RS Rubby (Micro Ridge), but also 17DS Diamond (Micro Ridge). For some reason they call it "REACH" profile.
Obviously the "S" models are very rare and much more refined as i can read from the manual:
"The Karat 23RS MR phono cartridge from Dynavector Systems, Ltd., is a further developed version of the original low-output, moving coil designs first introduced by the Japanese audio company with its DV Karat and Ruby models in 1979. The more evolved 23RS MR improved on this approach with new features designed to produce minimum dispersion, widest frequency response, and more superior tracking ability at a reasonable price. It's solid, tapered ruby cantilever provides better tracking at lower moving mass than the conventional 23R model. Iits uniquely shaped Micro Reach stylus maintains the same contact radius with a record's grooves over long playing times, with no change. The resulting sound reproduction is characterized by extremely high definition and wide dynamic range coupled with low distortion."
Ruby and Diamond cantilevers are very attracvtive and Micro Ridge stylus is so complicated and it has the longest life up to 2000 hrs or even more.
I'm wondering what is the advantages of super short pure diamond cantilever of 17DS MR compared to slightly longer Ruby cantilever of 23RS MR ? Has anyone compared both models?
I‘Ve got a 17D3 in like new condition. I basically inherited it after the passing of my dear audiophile friend. There’s a lot to be said for it, but I wonder how it really stacks up against today’s crop. (I think MCs have gotten better and better over the last 20 years.)
My first mc cartridge was a Dynavector 20B bought in 1977 from Lyric HiFi in NYC. Cost $240. I used it on my Empire 698 TT. Used it for about 6 months and then sold both TT and cartridge to a friend of mine (his first TT!).
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