Interesting topic. I own Dynaudios (not C1s) and other make speakers and run them concurrently of the same source system in different rooms, so I have taken some notice of how my Dyns do voices compared to others.
What's feeding the Dyn's? SOurce, preamp, amp, ICs? These can all make a difference. What other speakers you have heard better voices on aare you comparing the Dyns to? |
Also, when you say voices are "less than terrific" what does that mean? Are you able to understand the vocals in most decent recordings? OR can you understand but something does not sound right in regards to tonality perhaps?
Thanks. |
Source is a pc running thru a W4Sound Dac 2.
Voices are clear and centered but a bit layer back composited to B&Ws I have owned and moral with the Nola speakers. |
I have C-1's with all tube gear and the vocals are to die for. I've only heard C-1's on tube gear so I don't know how they sound on SS gear. When I use the turntable it sounds like the performers are in the room. |
I've heard Dyn C1s. Being more "laid back" than B&W does not surprise me.
The best ICs I know of for the cleanest and most coherent midrange are DNM Reson. I use these in my system from source to pre-amp and pre to amp in my system. Overall coherency top to bottom but especially in midrange and the benefits in terms of overall clarity is why I like them. THey also tend to be a good bit more forward in the midrange than other ICs I have used with my Dynaudio COntour 1.3 mkII monitors in particular. THey are not expensive and might be worth a try. |
You might try a set of silver wires if you are using copper now. I find they can give the midrange a punch forward with some speakers. Your McIntosh stuff is not forward at all but neutral I feel. |
Sorry. Spell check is important. Laid back compared to B and W and Nola's. |
Agree vocals on C1s should be to die for. Probably just some minor tweaking needed.
I have heard certain Nolas but not enough to offer any useful comparison to Dynaudio. |
As a former owner of the original C1's and current owner of the C1 signatures there is a big difference between the 2. That being said the C1's are considered by a lot of folks who do think the C1's have a laid back sound (myself included). But I also believe the C1's have the best balance of lows - mids and highs. Now I had both the original C1 and the Sig's in my system. The difference is the originals sounded their best at high listening levels. The Sig's sound like the quality of the originals at high levels where the Sig's really shine at low to mid levels. In fact I personally thought the originals sounded 'nasally' at lower levels (but not nasally at high levels).
I'm not familiar with Nola's but I have auditioned the B&W 805 - 803d and 802d's. To me they were too much in the mids and especially in the highs. These are my opinions. |
Thanks to all. Also have read that toe in on these speakers makes a big change, good and bad. I have played for a fed weekends with positioning and have them toed in slightly. Doesn't seem to affect voices but has made a bit of difference as it should in instrument detail. Again any advise? |
Dmm53 Which C1's do you have? If the originals do they sound more to your liking when you turn them up?
As far as your seating position how much room is behind you. I sit right up against the back wall and find if lean forward about a foot or 2 the mids and highs are not as laid back sounding. |
I have the old C1s, not the new ones.
The room opens in back of me. It is a great room and effectively, this is almost near field listening.I cannot push my seating position back any more. |
Xti16....its not a good idea to have your back up against a wall. You are getting resonance and the reverse wave back. I know sometimes the furniture and the wife demands it.....try a rug mounted on the back wall |
Stringreen its not a good idea to have your back up against a wall I know that. I am stuck with my room. I was also thinking more of dispersion instead dampening behind me. My chair his a high back lazy-boy so I do have ear level dampening LOL. I was trying to point out the fact that being up against the back wall is not good and leaning forward sounds much better. Dmm63 - Do your originals sound more to your liking when they are turned up in volume? That was my complaint when I had the originals because I listen at low to mid levels (70 -85db) 95% of the time. |
They do sound better at higher levels. I knew that when I bought them. I do like to listen a bit louder than most. I do mostly weekend listening and have to make the time to relax and turn up. |
Well this may sound stupid but when I had the original C1's I found they did sound a lot better with the grills off (the sound stage really opened up). The MKII/Sig is not as dramatic. So with the originals the grills only went on when the grandkids came over. With the sig's the grills rarely come off because the difference is minimal and the tweeters don't get dusty. Have you tried grills off and more toe-in?
Other than that maybe try some silver IC's or SC's. I currently run Nordost Tyr2 IC's and original Frey SC's.
Last were you able to audition the C1's before buying them? If so what source/amp was used? |
Thought of 1 more thing. If you have fillable stands try filling them with some sand or shot. I have the stand4 and fill the rear leg only with sand. Gives a slightly more forward presentation. |
Xti16,
How is your v110 sound like now after everything has broken in? I have upgraded to v110 as well, will get the unit in few days. thanks. |
I spoke to Paul at Clear Day after reading dozens of terrific reviews and will add his double shotguns into the equation.
I am a big believer in room placement and will continue to play with toe in and placement today. |
Clear day cables are a great match for C-1's. Buy them and just enjoy the music. BTW-Paul is the nicest guy in the business. |
Yes, speaker placement is the most important aspect in getting the optimal sound in a room. Be patient and you'll be rewarded.
In addition to all the excellent advices posted above : do check the wires are correctly phased(+/-), speakers: L & R tweeter-woofer outputs are ok and the port holes are not plugged if there is any. Also, I'll 2nd Xti16's recommendation, fill up the metal stands if you're using one which will help tame the ringing (however small) in some instances affect the image and focus.
Further improvements can be done easily by using acoustic panels right on the 1st reflection points.
You got a great set of speakers, enjoy. |
D160 - The V110 sounds great. But honestly I'm not too fond of the KT120's. The KT120's seem very bright in the highs like the sparkle turned more to a sizzle. I put some vintage Mullard drivers and a Rca 5751 triple mica black plate in for the input and it seems to help. But that's my opinion. YMMV |
Xti16,
Have you tried different brand of KT120 other than the stock ones? Mike from Dynaudio owns a V80, he said that V110 sounds better than his V80 with C1(which he also owns). Thank you for your feedback. |
I have been participating in this legal addiction for over thirty years. I have never seen the level of customer service I have received from Paul. He not only emailed me to answer my questions, but called as well. |
Dmm53, did you try the different taps on the 352? Great seaker cable choice by the way! |
|
Did not try changing taps. Assumed 8 Ohm not a good match. Could try 2, but have done that on previous 4 ohm speakers and always found it dry. |
D160 there is only 1 brand of KT120's. They are Tung Sol. So far the highs need the most taming. I sort of did that with a RCA 5751 triple mica black plate input tube and a pair of Mullard CV4024 driver/inverter tubes. Both the Rca and Mullard are very warm sounding with the Mullards being quite laid back in the highs. What I haven't tried yet is running the KT120's in 6550/KT88 mode.
What's funny I loved the KT120's for about 30 hrs when new. Then for the next 170hrs the mids became very forward and the highs somewhat harsh. |
Yes Xti16, I just realized that only Tung Sol makes KT120. My v110 will arrive Wednesday, Will let you know how does it sound in my room after broken in. |
Dl60 - Sent you a message through the Agon system |
