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DSpeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 - Where in Signal Chain?

I just purchased a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 in the hopes that it will help address some of the bass issues I have in my room. I've heard very good things about this unit. The more I read about it, however, the more confused I get about where in my signal chain it would be best to put it.

I know the manufacturer and US distributor are fond of telling users to get rid of their DACs and preamps and just use the AM2.0, but that's not going to work for me. For one, I have tons of DSD and 24/192 music that the AM2.0 wouldn't be able to process. I also love what the tubes in my preamp add to my music. So I'll be running this thing in the analog domain, and a double DAC-ADC conversion is unavoidable, although I've heard the arguments about why that might be less than ideal.

Putting that issue aside for the moment, it seems I have the following options:

1. Put the AM2.0 in between my DAC and preamp using the balanced XLR inputs and outputs. BUT here is where I get confused - is it not a problem feeding my preamp a signal that has essentially already been amplified to line level? If I do this, what volume setting do I use on the AM2.0 to ensure that I can control the volume with my preamp and not have any gain mismatch or clipping issues?

2. Put the AM2.0 in between my preamp and power amp using the regular main RCA out on the preamp. I'm worried about clipping at the input of the AM2.0 doing this. Again, what volume do I set the AM2.0 to in order to control the volume using the preamp?

3. Put the AM2.0 in between my preamp and power amp using the RCA "record out" on the preamp. This is actually what Tim Ryan, the US distributor, told me to do. But if I use the record out on the preamp, wouldn't I be bypassing anything the preamp might add to my signal? And since I only use one source anyway, what would be the point of even using my preamp if I did this?

If there is anyone out there who has or had one of these units and experimented with the above arrangements, I would love to hear about your own results. I just want to make sure I put this into my system in a way that makes sense and doesn't risk damaging anything. Thanks.
zm
12 responses Add your response
mrderrick
292 posts
 
I worked through all of your options with the exception of the record out connection.

Your collection of Hi-Rez source material obviously prohibits you from inserting the AM anywhere in the digital path.
Which is the only place that it worked at an acceptable performance level for me.

Using the AM in the analog domain had its drawbacks sonically for me because of the extra A/D -D/A conversions. You will have to give it a listen and decide for yourself.
You can trim the output by turning the volume level down to a point, but beware of loss of sound quality if you go to far.
I used a pair of rothwell balanced attenuators for the purpose of adjusting signal gain.
So long as you have everything turned down and bring the levels up slowly, I cannot see how you may damage anything. Where your pre volume setting ends up may disappoint you if it sounds best at a setting that you can no longer obtain. Where you get your gain will have the biggest effect on how it ultimately sounds.

I must ad the following comments;
The AM will perform much better with an after market regulated power supply.
Ultimately, I was never happy with the auto correction and had to enter my own correction curves.
In my mind, the AM is a piece of equipment that can perform exceptionally well when you build your system around it, not by inserting it into an existing system.

I did not keep my AM.
The best solution for me was the Rives Audio PARC.
It is a shame that they closed their doors this year.
mrderrick
292 posts
 
I cannot exactly recall, but I think that buried in the tools menu there are also settings for the analog and digital output levels.
zm OP
121 posts
 
Thanks very much for your responses, Mrderrick.

I have a pair of Rothwell attenuators myself and I'm curious where you used them. Did you put them at the analog inputs of the AM with the signal coming from the preamp? Or did you use them at the analog input of the preamp with the signal coming from the AM?

I must admit that I am completely confused at how everything works when you have two devices in a signal chain providing gain, complete with two volume controls, etc. This sounds to me like a recipe for ongoing sonic confusion, but I suppose it's a matter of experimentation.

I also am under no illusions that the AM will provide miraculous benefits with no trade-offs, but the bass problems in my room are pretty severe so I may well be willing to live with whatever price the AM exacts.
mrderrick
292 posts
 
The best place for the attenuators in my system was before the power amp.
You can place the attenuators wherever you want to try them.
The best place for the AM for me was in the digital path between my BDP-1 and PS Audio DS via USB cable.
I ran everything wide open and controlled the gain with my pre. But I am certain that I had made some adjustments in the tools menu, I just can't recall what they were called.
swampwalker's avatar
swampwalker
5,138 posts
 
I think that the record out suggestion involves using the tape loop or tape monitor function. Source to pre to record out to AM to tape in and set the tape monitor to tape, not source. Think of the AM as a signal processor, and you're putting it into a processor or tape loop. Not sure about any of the other issues, but this should let you control the output w your pre volume control. If there is a unity gain setting for the AM, that might be best, or you could adjust to match the volume of your other sources.
zm OP
121 posts
 
Thanks, Swampwalker. My pre (ARC LS-15) doesn't have a tape in, but it does have a monitor in. So if I understand correctly, I would have my source come into the pre as usual, run an RCA from the pre's "record out" to the AM, then RCA out from the AM into the pre's "monitor in", then set the pre to "monitor" instead of "source".

I'm actually not entirely sure what the advantage is to putting the AM into a tape loop rather than simply putting it between the pre and power amps. In both cases, I assume I could use the pre to control the volume and will need to deal with the AM's gain somehow. I think the record out suggestion is intended for those using integrated amps.
swampwalker's avatar
swampwalker
5,138 posts
 
Yes, monitor in = tape in in this case. The advantage is that there is no chance of overloading the AM and you would control the volume just as you would w any other component. No idea if this is better or worse in terms of how it would sound.
ozzy's avatar
ozzy
7,461 posts
 
I own the unit and I also did not want to limit my output to 24/96.
So, I have mine just augmenting the bass.
That is, I have 2 separate line outs from my Preamp.
One goes to my Amp the other goes to the DSPeaker.
I have 2 JL Audio F113's. I eq the JL's individually first and then I use the DSPeaker to eq them into the rest of the system.
gnobber
43 posts
 
I had the dual core between my dac output and amp. At that time I had decided I preferred no preamp and was letting the dac control volume. My dac is an exasound e20. The dual core did very well in controlling some severe bass modes I had.
thyname's avatar
thyname
3,107 posts
 
For using AM DC 2.0 with a preamp, do you guys control the volume with the preamp or AM?
enginedr1960
173 posts
 
The AM is a great product that lacks some things . More inputs and outputs ,better PS and a good remote . To solve this I built a custom passive line controller with 4 inputs going out to one output to the input on the AM . The AM goes back in to a input that goes to a Bent audio TAP X Dave Slagel Autoformer volume control with 2 outputs . The boxes are of the same footprint and sit on top of each other . Makes for one killer Preamp combo . I set the volume to max on the AM and attenuate with the TAP X
clmelis's avatar
clmelis
21 posts
 
I just got a year old used DSPeaker  dual core from the music room. I am just putting the finishing tou he's to a dedicated basement (early morning) music room for a second system.
Ultimately I will move two of my REL Q150e subs into the front corners, but want to get the sound and acoustics close to ideal first.
 ( BTW: Question for the ocd on this forum:- Which baseboards sound best??).
Looking at the bewildering array of acoustic treatments and bass traps sent me into shopping paralysis . How do I know what frequencies  I want to tame? What size bass traps? How will they react to the RELs in the same corners as REL suggest? Why load the room just to randomly attenuate some bass frequencies? ?
Then I stumbled upon the DSPeaker  dual core 2.0 on BK subwoofer's website. Stereophile recommended? 
So, a device that actually measures the room response,  then corrects it? So logical. That's what I need!
Found it $700 used. Clicked BuyItNow. Here in 4 days.

I hooked up a simple system to inaugurate the new room from my stash: Musical fidelity x-ray, DSPeaker, x-150, Rega naos ( transmission lines with output to 20hz!).
Nice enough sound. Bass is definitely there, if a bit muddy due to room modes.
I plugged in the DSP to the cd player spdif  input using it as the dac. Connected the microphone at the listening seat and ran the calibration. 
Half an our later, tea in one hand, remote in the other, I could a/b test the results.
WHAT A REVELATION!
The unit removed me from my 13×21×7-6" room with its muddy 30,60, 80,120hz bass modes, to a much larger concert hall!
At first the reduced bass was a shock, but you soon realize you can hear texture to the entire bass spectrum.
It sounds more NATURAL. 
I have lots more experimenting to do once I add the subs. 
(Now, what baseboards shall I install??)
I'll let you know....
:-)

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