I just think you have have to hear more gear to have better reference points. I’ve heard those super high end systems and I think they provide a good foundation for what’s possible. It wasn’t just the cost of the gear it was also set up properly. But to each his own. If I’m going to take advice from anyone I would rather them have heard really good high end gear that was set up properly.
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I totally understand all the opinions. I allowed myself to hear a number of different systems in different enviorment. Personal preferences are really important. I also think system matching is really important. I’ve heard all out assault systems blow me away but that was because the guy who had it set it up properly and matched equipment well plus his system is of the kind I prefer. I also have heard all out assault systems sound bad because of matching and the persons personal preference I think it’s important to hear as much gear as you can to determine what you like and don’t like. I also think it can teach you that it’s not about how much you spend that will get you sound happiness. |
Also I would like to clarify something. When I say the best I mean what I actually mean those pieces that are supposed to be really great based on the reviewers and the industry guys that supposedly say they are. Now I know a lot of payola is going on in the high end but I like to hear the so called cream of the crop to see how much better it is than what I have assembled or if it’s even better at all. I try to hear as much as I can to try to compare things to other things. Not doing a/b comparisons but the overall listening experience. I have settled in with my system and I’m extremely happy with it even when I compare to the super high end stuff. However, equipment, cabling and enviorment matching has been pivotal in my set up. |
I think matching is really important as well. If you put the wrong high priced gear together it can sound like crap. If you match the rogh5 equipment with the right cabling in the right enviorment wammo you can have a system that sounds better than gear that a lot higher priced. |
Jafant that’s what I was actually more referring to. I had four sessions with the Raidho soultions combination. I had 2 or three sessions with the Raidho accuphase set up. I had sessions with voxative with high fidelity electronics. YG with gryphon. I had a 2 month session with veloce and Vienna acoustics. I had a 2 month session with esoteric and revel studio 2’s. I had a 2 week session with the nu vista 800 with revel studio 2. I had 2 month sessions it’s Kr Audio and Sonus faber. I recently had a session of gryphon and vivid speakers. These are longer term listening sessions that gave me really good reference points. When I’m on some of the threads I see a lot of guys that are just anti high end. Sometimes they have never heard the stuff or they don’t have the ability to have longer term listening session with the variety of high end gear. I remember when I first heard the transparency and the air created by the veloce ls1 preamplifier. I was like wow. It was different in a good way and gave me a whole new reference point. When I hear guys totally diss the high end I’m a lot less willing to listen to them. It’s not the cost of the gear. It’s just the fact that they diss it because it cost so much when sound of the gear should be evaluated first then cost second. Just my opinion. |
True. It depends on what you like. I actually like acoustic music. I enjoy a lot of it myself. I listen to a lot of jazz without voices. It depends on what you listen to as well. I like extended cymbals and open midrange. A lot of us want different types of sounds. I also believe that there is more than one great sound. There are many different really good sounds. I’m glad that my system keeps me happy after hearing the really good expensive stuff. Tells me I’m doing smthg right. Now I did spend a good amount but I think I did pretty good. |
Melbguyone. I agree with you on that. Som folks haven’t truly heard reference level gear |
I haven’t but if you go to Facebook on the lone star Audio fest page you can see and hear a demo of my system
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Go take a listen and tell me what you think.
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Well the challenge is getting a great sound at the best price you can find it at and that you are happy with. I’m going to be keeping my current set up a while and you have to be happy with it no matter who else likes it or doesn’t like it. I spent the last 11 years hearing all I can and the best I can so that I can put together my system and have good reference points. I think that it gets to a point for many of us where you can’t justify the costs of some gear. I thought I would never spend over 10k for a speaker but I have and I’m enjoying them daily but I have the right integrated and source to match and I enjoy the system as a whole. We all have different experiences and opinions but the key is to listen and enjoy.
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I am using the Resonessence Mirus Pro Dac in the video as my source playing a dsd album of an sd card. The brother of the owner of Resonessence created the ess sabre chip. This allows them to implement the use of this chip better than the others. I chose the Gato speakers because of the scan speak drivers as well as the ring radiator tweeter. The company Gato did a great job of getting a lot of air and space in the tweeter. The driver set up allows for a very big and open midrange. A company like Gato was really trying to prove itself with the technology used in the speaker. I chose the speaker because of that and I didn’t want to get what others already had. I love my music to be dynamic and resolving based on the type of jazz I listen to. I like to her instrument players really go for it in THIER playing. The rel sub adds great bass foundation. |
My Dac is great. It has 6 filters. I compared it to ps audio direct stream and Manhattan and brooklyn dacs and it kicks butts. Resonessence really gets digital right. The speakers are a gem. I compared them till the studio 2 from revel and liked them better. I also compared them to the smaller Wilson’s. The listz from Vienna acoustics and the bowers and Wilkins D3 and I like the Gato out of Denmark better. I also have saw numerous speakers at shows and when I come home the Gato still keeps me smiling. I put together a nice one of a kind set up. Ths gets it done for me. |
True if you are listening to the equipment. It isn’t high end. The music coming out of it should have all of your attention. As far as the high end shops being snooty and not showing gear I go through the same thing here in Dallas. Audio concepts ones this thing where they take your name down. Come in more than twice without buying and the music is cut off. They don’t show you anything or pay attention to you. I went in there for a 4th time before I bought my Gato speakers and they way they acted turned me off and I politely took my big speaker purchase to Audio Emotion in Scotland. The guy there Gary gave me advice for years and I hadn’t bought anything. He deserved my business so I bought from him. He told us about Gato and how it competed with speakers 2 or 3 times the price. We trusted him and we are glad we did. I think it’s also important to a great sales guy to work with who first enjoys the hobby then the sales some naturally. As far as reference points I,think it’s very important to hear the high end gear if only for a reference point. I think you learn more that way. The more you hear the better. The better you hear the better.
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Elizabeth I agree. When properly matched there won’t be a 10 times improvement. To get great drivers, design, build quality and R&D it’s going to take spending a decent amount to get the really good stuff. Some people just have not heard the cream of the crop in equipment. The reference point they have is sometimes nowhere near what some have heard. For example I heard the Raidho 5.1 with all soulution electronics and ansuz cabling. It was in a home listening cottage measured perfectly and the Raidho people came over to the states to do the set up in person. Best I ever heard in my life. Sounded so good I don’t want to hear it again. They had to put me out I wanted to stay so long. Intoxicating, airy, great detail, no harshness, perfect soundstage big, great image placement, airy highs, open wide midrange, deep tight low bass. Granted this was an all out assault system worth about 600k retail. But it is the best I heard and I heard it in extended sesssions on 3 occasions. That kind of reference point is priceless in the hobby. Showed me what reproduction was possible of. The sound is in my head so when I listen it’s locked in. Now can you get that out of a 60k system I doubt It. I have a system 35k retail and I have heard systems all over. Mines is put together pretty good and I have heard systems that cost 60 to 70k that mines will run with but after that if you get the right equipment and set up my system can’t run past that amount. The proper high end stuff is just that good and some folks have no idea
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There are large variances. One speaker company changed its signature and it’s high end speakers just dont get it done anymore |
The person who did this was a former dealer who knew he was dying of Lou Gehrig’s disease. He made it his mission to put the best system and enviorment he could together. Price be damned. He had spent 20 years in the business and the hobby. He knew what he was doing and he took me to the mythical Audio nirvana. RIP DAVE BASKIN! |
Well I think you missed the point of my whole post. He had great equipment. He matched it perfectly with cables and component matching. He had an almost perfectly measured listening enviorment. He had the makers come in and set it up. The recording quality of the music he was playing was excellent. He had the whole cottage built for the purpose of listening to the best equipment he could get his hands on and because of his all out assault Audio nirvana happened. Lol. Until you’ve heard it don’t comment. Honestly, I don’t think I will ever hear something that good again. He went to great lengths to set the whole thing up!
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That’s what’s possible. Get the best high end equipment. Match it properly. Put it in the right enviorment with the right recording and bam!
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Geoffkait I kind of notice that you always bash the systems of the guys with well means. Quit hating. I wouldn’t spend the money that guy spent on his system but the music bought him peace and joy knowing that death was coming fast. He was an experienced high end dealer who had the means and experience to put a great system together and he did it. He put the right things together in the right enviorment with equipment based on his experience that worked well together. Look if you can put a cheap system together that makes you happy then enjoy it. But don’t always crap on people that can afford more or spend more or want to spend more by always calling them fools. If they can put a system together at costs they can afford that allows them to enjoy the music more then great for them. I’ve tried a lot of stuff and heard a lot of stuff. The more stuff the better the opinion to me. There are just some systems in the high end that if put together right can reset your ears! If you haven’t listened then watch how you comment. Cost doesnt always equal better performance. But if you put a cheap system properly matched and an expensive system properly matched the more expensive one will sound better but how much you are willing to spend will determine if it’s worth it to you! |
Will you share what your system consists of with us please?
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Well the only reason I asked about what you have is to get an idea of your own reference point. What have you settled on etc. you offer your opinions up so much I’m just trying to figure out what you are running. It has nothing to do with costs etc. I don’t have a lot of huge names in my system but it’s a little pricey and niche. Geokaffit is your system tube, solid state or vintage. It’s not a push-up contest by any means. In terms of best in Audio. Yes it’s very subjective. I used it in terms of what a lot of people consider reference quality gear. I mean I want to hear the best gear I can despite price point. Anyway if something is priced too high I hear a lot of bashing about it’s not worth it etc. To each his own. I’m happy where I’m at and getting what I like out of my system
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I started at the lower end I moved up gradually. I’m pretty comfortable with my ear, my experience with multiple pieces of gear at multiple price points. Like i said to each his own. I think there are a lot of opinions here. I personally trust people that are willing to share what they have and have listened to a lot of gear at multiple price points. If you don’t want to share you just babbling to me. So why even post on the thread if you not! Useless CARRY ON!
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Well there are a few people on this thread they know who they are. All they do is attack the high end. They don’t share what they have. They don’t talk about what they have actually heard. They are just negative trolls. Useless!
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They do this on multiple threads take a look for yourself. Honestly it’s America and it’s a right to respond but if you not going to share then just talk to yourself. People come to the threads to share experiences etc. why don’t y’all get a troll thread and just meet there. It’s the same 4 or 5 people.
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Not a big deal to share what you have but will run the mouth about how anyone who buys high end is a fool. Just get off the thread. Go that away! |
@dentdog I agree. I have been around a lot of the old school guys. I’ve learned from the guys that have been in the hobby 35 plus years. I’ve learned a lot about tubes and horns. I demoed some older equipment earlier. I then moved up and then tried some other things. I eventually moved up by trying classe, bryston, esoteric, Audio research LSA statement, musical,fidelity then I heard veloce and wammo the transparency of this battery powered pre amp was amazing. It was like Audio butter but crazy expensive. There were a bunch of different great sounds in the things I tried but the technology in the veloce got me thinking. I eventually settled on my kr Audio va 900 integrated because of the tubes and musicality. I learned because I heard these and many others it allowed me to grow in the hobby. Then I met Dave Baskin. I heard devaliet, accuphase, Lumin and soulution. That allowed me to expand my knowledge of sound in terms of pre amps and power Amps. I heard about 7 to 10 more brands in between those. I heard rogue, Mark Levinson, McIntosh, Cary, and marantz. This has allowed me to,have a better informed opinion and more exposure to all ranges of gear. Speaker wise I have heard Sonus faber, revel, b&w, Vienna acoustics, definitive technology, Gato, magico, dynaudio, raidho, magnepan, voxativ, focal, yg, vivid, Joseph Audio,and Dali. There was also a speaker with a big blue horn that I can’t remember the name of but all this gave me a better idea of the great different sounds of Audio. Because of these experiences I feel like I have a better ear. The more you hear the better to me! |
Inorganic. That is true. When you are listening for long periods with having the treble hit your ear wrong and the music has the right amount of detail with organic musicality it’s a nice long music session |
As far as Raidho sounding cold. Once again it was not put together properly. High priced equipment is not the only yardstick. Room, amplification, cabling, source etc make a huge difference. That’s why if you paid attention to what I was saying in the post tha DAVE BASKIN WAS EXPERIENCED AT HIS CRAFT. He knew how to properly match things. He knew how to position his equipment and soundproof his listening enviorment. Any high end speaker can sound like crap if you don’t properly match it with the proper source, cabling, amplification and listening enviorment. As far as lack,of knowledge is concerned you don’t know me and I wouldn’t tell you you have a lack of knowledge. Whatever, anyway I didn’t just go to a show and listen to the equipment I mentioned. I either owned, had long term monthly demos in my listening enviorment or went to listen them on multiple occasions in other people’s systems. I’m just saying if you have not done what I have done at least I’m probably less apt to listen to you. I want people that have tried the whole spectrum and heard the whole spectrum of stuff. I’m not saying that makes them right or wrong but I’m personally more likely to,trust them more. In addition to that when I hear the higher priced equipment that is PROPERLY SET UP AND MATCHED IT WILL BLOW THE OTHER STUFF AWAY USUALLY. Not all the times but more times than not. Is the higher price stuff worth what people pay. NO IM NOT PAYING FOR AUDIO EQUIPMENT THAT COSTS A MANSION OR LUXURY CAR. Some will but I won’t. I feel I’m playing at a nice level that allows me to get the resolution and musicality that I seek in my audio. To each his own. No one is 100% right just my opinion. BASED ON MY LACK OF EXPERIENCE. LOL.
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Look everybody. I have spent the last 14 years going at Audio like an obsession. I have had the pleasure of having Rick Schultz at high fidelity cables allow me to demo stuff. Scott warren at advance home theater system. Bob Spence and affirm Audio and the late Great DAVID BASKIN who had a speaker bucket list because he knew he was dying. Last but not least my friend Charles Threat who along with my friend Bill Smith went on an audio journey for the last 10years. In addition to that my guy Gary at Audio emotion in Scotland always came through with great suggestions. I learned all I could from these guys. I was blessed to have the opportunity to get 30 plus years of experience that each guy had in our hobby. Each of them spent 30 years minimum chasing the Audio ghosts. I’ve heard equipment and cabling at all levels through these relationships. I don’t only speak of what I learned but also what I was taught by them. Equipment, placement, room acoustics, resolution, cabling, recording qualities, equipment isolation etc etc. These guys have allowed me to have access of equipment as cheap as $100 up 100k. I have been blessed to learn and enjoy this hobby like I have. The reason I have settled in my system is that for what I paid and what I seek I’m in a great space. Can I do better yes but at a cost and gamble I’m not willing to take. Every little thing affects your system from the cheapest cable to the room enviorment. I have my opinion but to some you may disagree and that’s fine but I will very seldom lay run into anyone that has been on the trip I have in this hobby for the last 14 years. I have enjoyed every bit of it. I started out thinking that folks were crazy to ever pay more than 2k For anything in this hobby and then I heard what was possible through technology, resolution and great amplification and I changed my mind. It’s great that we have opinions but remember we all have different experiences and I’m not going to down you for disagreeing with me but lack of experience is not a street that you should go down with me. I have been schooled by a great group of guys that love this hobby and do it not just to sell me stuff but for the music. Enjoy it while you are hear two of those guys are no longer with us!
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Yeah I’m glad we did. Like I said I pretty much like advice from people who have better or multiple reference points. I’m just being honest. It doesn’t mean the you are not right or wrong. It just means I prefer folks that have multiple experiences with multiple pieces of gear, enviorments and technologies
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@mapman I do agree with going to listen at live venues as well. That is also a very important reference point. I think you get a bigger sound in live listening. I think the soulutions gear even though it’s overpriced provides a big sound with big images.
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A lot of the dealers are demoing raidho with chord or other stuff. But with the soulutions electronics and source it was more on the organic side. Big images nice detail. Etc. |
One more thing the raidho people measured his room and placed the speakers. |
In terms of Raidho I know you heard it at a top dealer but my guys was set up by three Raidho people themselves. The came overseas to his cottage to set it all up. Speaker placement and electronics. The other thing is that when you hear Raidho with soulutions it is a very organic and analogue type sound. Try to hear that combination and it will give you a very musical, organic and analogue type sound. The guy who owned it hated any sound that was cold and analytical. This Raidho with soulutions electronics was the most organic and natural sound I ever heard. |
Once again matching is really important. |
It could be a number of things. The first thing I do in the high end is to try to listen the that piece of equipment. Expensive doesn’t make it the best. I look at multiple magazine reviews and blog reviews. I also look at the audio forums to see what owners are saying about it along with looking at it myself and listening to it. I grade it using my ear. I look for soundstage width and depth, high, lows, Mids and transparency. I listen for the size of the images. I listen to decay and layering to determine if it stands up to being listed among the best. Overall is it natural and musical. For example the best solid state gear I’ve heard is soulutions. It does all this!
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Best in my eyes. Best is in the ears of the listener. Hope you get it^^^ |
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That would be true. Can’t get it when you already got it!
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@orpheus10. I put a lot of time in the last 14 years. Listening to gear. I have went to several Audio shows. I have traveled to WHITEHOUSE TEXAS on 5 or 6 occasions to hear raidho, magico, Dali, dynaudio, Sonus faber, soulutions, music fidelity, accuphase, soulutions and revel. I have had in home demos of high fidelity cables, Kubala sosna and amplifiers, allnic, esoteric, veloce, Manley, Cary. I have owned Vienna acoustic, rel, Resonessence, classe, lsa, Sony, EAR, bryston, marantz, Sonus faber, revel, Gato, definitive technology, Kr Audio, Ayon and Audio Research. I have tried cables by high fidelity, Mit, clarity Cable, atlas mavros, kimber, clarus, shunyata. My close friends have owned focal, Ayre, mark levinson, rogue, oppo and Luxman. I feel that I have been blessed to hear all of this gear and truly see what’s possible in Audio and high end Audio. My journey is basically done. I’m going to stay with the system I have for a while and just listen to the music and enjoy it. I have my opinions about all the stuff I have heard and I have enjoyed this hobby to the fullest. I think hearing it all has made me a better audiophile. A lot of it sounds good in many different ways and flavors. Whatever you think enjoy your journey. I have really enjoyed mines
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Don’t want your credibility with someone like yourself. As far as namedropping is cocncerned. Not name dropping just telling you what I have heard. But not surprised you saw it that way. Most of your type does. But anyway. Everybody enjoy your journey and hear as much as you can as often as you can. I wanted to hear a lot of different stuff and I have been blessed to be able to. Whether you spend 10$ or 10k enjoy your system and your music
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My two audio buddies Bill smith and the late Charles threat set out to hear and try as much gear as we can and for about 7 or 8 years we went on a journey together that was amazing. We met dealers, We developed relationships, shared music, bought and sold gear and tried to better the other persons system for the best sound in our group. We had the best time. We started cheap and bought more expensive as time went on. Usually the sound got better as we went up but not all the time. We almost heard and tried it all. I’m glad that it happened. I’m glad I learned from it all. My audio journey has been unique and I have enjoyed every bit of it. |
IN CONCLUSION
GET EXPERIENCED ADVICE FROM THISE WHO HAVE HEARD A LOT GEAR. HOPEFULLY THEY HAVE HEARD CHEAP GEAR ALL THE WAY UP TO 5 or 6 figures. MAKE SURE THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE IN MATCHING SYSTEMS UP. TRY TO FIND YOUR SWEET SPOT AND GET THE BEST SYSTEM YOU CAN IN THAT RANGE. MAKE SURE THEY KNOW WHATS POSSIBLE IN AUDIO BY HEARING THE HIGHEST LEVEL PROPERLY MATCHED SYSTEMS. HOWEVER, THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HEARING THE BEST YOU CAN AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AND THEN DECIDE WHERE YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO WITH YOUR SYSTEM! ENJOY EVERYONE AND THANKS FOR ALL OF YOUR RESPONSES
OUT!
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@harrylavo great post! Informative |
Thanks harrylavo. In my posts I’ve tried to share my unique journey. Some take it as showboating or showing off. I meant as an offer of experiences. My audio experience has been a great one. Hearing music in all kinds of way. Different sounds but a lot of pleasing music. I’m not bragging but my journey I’m blessed for it.
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True that why I pose the questions I do. When they see a 14k speaker or a 10k amp or a 6k Dac it’s open season. Nothing wrong with having better stuff |
