Do Dealers think it is sinful..........

clarification: stock = display. thanks.

thank you all for your contributions to this thread. i just want to clarify my position on my post. i understand that a dealer should be able to earn every penny for the productr he sells. however, i have a hard time paying full price for a high ticket item (8k+) when there is no service rendered. by the way, mac stuff is reasonably priced and the support is generally great in my area. i have no problem there. here is an example of my frustration: my dad and i go to classe dealer. i tell him that i am interested in the omega line of products. the sales manager can tell me nothing about the omega line. he has never heard the pre or the amp. he doesnt even stock any of classe's newer amps. yet he expects me to write the check as if he does. where's the service? there is a better classe dealer about 60 miles away. i told him i had been there to just look at that beast of an amp. i never discussed price or discounts there. i just stopped in once or twice during the course of my business. the dealer in my town told me to go to the dealer 60 miles away since they had allowed me to view the amp on display. he let a $27k sale walk right out the door. i'm befuddled and cofused and a little upset. oh well.

Avnut, the McIntosh line that you were interested in (based on your previous post) is normally not discounted. While my dealer has quoted a small discount (~5%) for a McIntosh amp it isn't even close to the discount they quoted for a Mark Levinson amp. For dealers to survive I think its necessary for them to add value to a sale. One of these services is allowing clients to audition equipment at home, or at least have the products available to audition in their demo rooms. However, I would agree with Perfectimage, the dealers are alot more warey about loaning out equipment to just anyone, many people will simply buy it used on the net afterward. I can't entirely knock those who do this. When used prices drop to nearly 50% of retail or less within one year of use, paying retail seems silly. I have a good relationship with a dealer who allows me to audition stuff at home, will normally give me a fair discount, provides the ability to trade up for full credit within a year on specific types of components, and has given me excellent assistance when I've required warranty work.

Oh yeah,and lets not forget the MFGS. making sure you can't go across the street to buy the same thing.(across town is sometimes not possible) The Net may change this/ or is. Much of the used is offered by dealers. That tells me they have "poor" relations with their own customer base and thus must use the outreach method.Most every dealer expects me to buy only what they sell. Most dealers "HATE" to discount. Why do you think unions were started?:To achieve some leveling of the playing field. I think it sure has been needed.Just the fact that they have to order the product for you/ or that you took it for a "drive" are reasons to charge full pop. Thankfully that IS changing,because we are not all traine "Negotiators".

Gmkowal@ix.netcom.com: it is NOT illegal to cut off a retailer for selling below a manufacturer-set price. it IS illegal to threaten a cut off and not follow through; i.e., if a manufacturer has a "no-discount" policy that it enforces uniformly and consisently, the antitrust laws are not thereby violated. fact is, there are very few highend lines left that practice such pricing policies.

in my experience, you can get discounts from virtually every dealer, depending on what you are buying. indeed, i won't buy without at least a 10% discount and usually can obtain at least 25% off. you just need to work at it.

Gentlemen, with all due respect, I used to sell high end audio equipment part time during college. While there is truth in what you are saying, sometimes is beyond the control of the dealer. Some of the manufacturers, and there are quite a few, threaten the dealer with pulling the line, if they discount. While this is highly illegal, it is a common practice in high end audio, and the dealers are pressured to go along with it, for fear of losing their product lines. Some manufacturers that we all hold near and dear, participate in these practices. The dealer I used to work for used to make up for the non discounts by giving the customers accessory credits, based on the ammount spent, that could be used for cables or accessories. The credits usually were about 10% to 15% of the purchase price. Gents, I can tell you with complete confidence that it is not always the dealers fault that a discount is not offered.

I have always been able to negotiate 15 to 25 percent off of retail and as much as 70 percent of for demo models of cables. I make it clear to them that if they dont discount I will take my business elsewhere but I also make sure they get most of my business. I could have bougth almost all of my products cheaper from here but I wouldnt have known hat to buy. They let me borrow equipment for long periods of time and always considered my wants with recommendations. I think the service was worth the extra money. I think dealers will do what you mentioned above but you have to build a reputation with them. If you are always using there equipment for demonstrations and the expertise for buying used equipment from other people why should the dealer put the time into you.

It varies from dealer-to-dealer; Some do and some don't. Some dealers allow 100% trades, usually within a year, on something more expensive. Something has to make this do-able. You paying 100% for the item is one way. Also, if you want the item, chances are A LOT of other people do too. The saying is: "In retail electronics you either can't get it or you can't sell it.". This gives the dealer the advantage. The cool thing about a free market economy is that you, the consumer, always have the right shop somewhere else.

Avnut, I agree. As a matter of fact, with so many great websites where ordinary people like you and me can buy and sell equipment at an enormous discount to retail, there is less need for the brick and mortar retail store. I'm in California, I was loyal to one dealer imparticular, but since I became aware of Audiogon and others, I spend more time doing research, I will listen to equipment at the retail stores, then I'll look for a private party selling it on the web.