Distinctly Digital Forever?


Something always made me believe that a decent tube preamp could "mellow" or "naturalize" the sound of digital sources. But this doesn't seem to be so. OTOH, maybe there are DACS out there that not only convert to analog, but actually make digital source components sound like analog sources? So, just to further my understanding: assuming price no object, does there exist any DAC, or DAC/Pre combo, capable of making my streamer (or the best streamer in existence, for that matter) sound indistinguishable from an FM radio signal, given each "playing" the same recording at the same volume with the same EQ?

hickamore

Showing 13 responses by hickamore

@pokey77 Recently upgraded my Ethernet to streamer, but nothing upstream of that. Will check the websites you recommend to see what might be done at that level. As you can see, I am only now learning how to navigate this digital audio universe that popped into existence while I was busy doing other things.

 

Yes, I see. And will definitely explore what might be done to improve the front end of the network setup. Appreciate the advice.

Prima Luna is one that I have considered, but not yet auditioned. However, my problem is not with FM or TT, it's with streaming. Tuner needs no digital inputs -- in fact, needs no inputs period. Tuner is a pure output device that runs straight to tube preamp, 100% analog. Now, digital DACS -- those are very much in play, and since streaming is 80-90% of my listening, the Prima Luna + tube DAC might well be of help there too. So PL 400 is definitely on the short list, thanks.

@erik_squires  Please let me never smell kenjity. If it weren't a question of interest TO ME, I wouldn't have mentioned it. What I asked was CAN it be done -- NOT "how can I improve" -- and @ghdprentice answered this to my full satisfaction. As to whether I personally can make digital sound more analog (please!) there are several useful answers which I am very plainly NOT ignoring! @lalitk the streamer I have, which is as far into streamers as I am likely ever to go, is the Aurender N200. All preamps are tubed with multiple connectivity. ARC 28 is next up, and that's likely where the preamp train will stop.

@ghdprentice, given your absolute top-end system, I can readily accept that your digital stream sounds as natural as your analog side. This assures me that yes, it CAN be done. But can it be done at, say, half the expense? I note that the ARC DAC 9 is upsampling (as is my DAC), while @jgoldrick and ​​​​@soix recommend R2R DACs which I have never auditioned but are nearer my intended budget. Also recommended for my lesser Aurender model has been the T+A DAC 200 whose technology I don't pretend to understand.
Thank you for the sobering insight that DAC upgrade may be moot if I ALSO need a streamer at the W20SE level. If that's the case then I must simply continue treating digital & analog reproduction as the two different sonic experiences they have always been (for me).  

 

 

@tomic601 @lalitk you guys are great. Enough info to play with for quite a while! Thank you to all contributors for so much stuff I didn't know and wouldn't otherwise have known where to look for.

 

@tomcy6 For purposes of this question I am defining "better" as "making acoustic music performed in real space and recorded via microphones to tape or direct disc sound more like acoustic music performed and heard in real space." The FM radio signals are from a high-end tuner delivering programs playing vinyl recordings, so if the source is compressed/limited low-bitrate digital, it doesn't sound that way. Granting the many audible virtues of digital reproduction, I just don't find realistic representation of acoustic music recorded via mic in actual space to be among them.

I mean, all else being equal. If another DAC using same cables and connected components sounds no more natural -- i.e., all variables being fully controlled -- then isn't THAT the time to start looking elsewhere for fixes?

@kota1 apparently I typed "upsampling" when I meant "oversampling." Most or all here seem agreed that "R2R/NOS" is the way to go for a more analog-like presentation.

tomcy6, that's the problem -- these days my listening is 90% streaming, for all the obvious reasons. It's just that on CERTAIN material -- acoustic folk rock, chamber ensembles -- the difference between analog and streaming is pretty glaring. (CDs, it happens, fall in between. Albinoni, Mondonville, Dave Carter & their ilk sound convincing enough in that format). Also my current DAC, the Musical Fidelity M6S, a decade old and discontinued, is not a good match for my new Aurender N200 (sounded fine with more primitive streamers).

@lalitk Thanks, I have been postponing that approach but now is a good time to start acquiring my absolute favorite recordings from Analog Productions!

@mahler123 Talk about coming full-circle in 30 years. If only Harry Pearson were around to read that comment. True, HP never got to hear the latest in streamers and DACs introduced since 2014. But he certainly knew the broadcast stations with the highest engineering standards, and the high-end tuners that were once common (Magnum Dynalab is still made today). Prior comments agree that the very best digital components, carefully matched in the right playback environment, can now MATCH the naturalness of analog. Others say "not quite, but you can get close" using certain DACs. You seem to be all by your lonesome in the extreme comparison of digital reproduction (generically) to Michelin 3-star cuisine, or FM broadcast reproduction (generically) to junk food. 

Oh, well. In statistics we discard the outliers. In elections, votes for Gus Hall or George Lincoln Rockwell do count -- they just don't count for MUCH.

@mahler123 

"If that is your ideal, why are you bothering to listen to digital at all?"

Same reason others do: (1 )convenience (2) sound effects are exciting. Just doesn't work for me late on quiet evenings when I want authenticity in the sound of folk rock or baroque ensemble.