All the best,
Nonoise
Did Amir Change Your Mind About Anything?
It’s easy to make snide remarks like “yes- I do the opposite of what he says.” And in some respects I agree, but if you do that, this is just going to be taken down. So I’m asking a serious question. Has ASR actually changed your opinion on anything? For me, I would say 2 things. I am a conservatory-trained musician and I do trust my ears. But ASR has reminded me to double check my opinions on a piece of gear to make sure I’m not imagining improvements. Not to get into double blind testing, but just to keep in mind that the brain can be fooled and make doubly sure that I’m hearing what I think I’m hearing. The second is power conditioning. I went from an expensive box back to my wiremold and I really don’t think I can hear a difference. I think that now that I understand the engineering behind AC use in an audio component, I am not convinced that power conditioning affects the component output. I think.
So please resist the urge to pile on. I think this could be a worthwhile discussion if that’s possible anymore. I hope it is.
Showing 23 responses by nonoise
Practice what you preach. Are you incapable of feeling shame for what amounts to a contrived (and poorly constructed) analogy in your rebuttal? Practically everything you came up with reeks with desperation in an attempt to draw parallels of what passes for the rigors of testing in audio reproduction (if there really is such a thing) to what can be accomplished in ensuring accuracy in watches and the way they are measured, not to mention what even the highest standards of watch accuracy are and how they're determined. Have fun with your scopes. All the best, |
Imagine if this were a watch forum and someone went to extreme lengths showing you how your brand of watch is way overpriced for what it does and that a cheaper one is much more accurate and he had the graphs to prove it! Toss in some sycophants posting links to reviews of watches, ridiculing what they had to say about them and a few straddling the fence playing both sides against the middle. This thread has sucked the joy out of listening for listenings sake which, I think, was the purpose of it, or it was highjacked for that purpose. This is beyond silly. No wonder many online reviewers and the zines that use them no longer take comments. Some reviewers have even taken hiatus for the constant abuse they get, like the base of a political party that harasses and threatens the livelihoods of those who oppose them. It’s not that far a thing to say we’re now burning audio witches. All the best, |
All the best, |
Translation:
All the best, |
Perfectly measuring gear is just spin for sales. Everything made goes through measurements and is made to spec and gets that CE approval so you know it won't burn your house down. Now if a designer wants a certain sound and it means adding some distortion in order to achieve that goal, there's nothing wrong about doing that. It's already been pointed out by musicians, technicians and recording engineers. Again, nothing remotely wrong about that. So what if something has 40-50db of headroom? You're not going to appreciate it in your room unless you want to blow your ears out. That's very misleading. All those graphs that make some go "oooh" and "ahhh" make me laugh, a little. It's great that something can be so fiendishly designed so as to look picture perfect but the proof is in the listening and how it jives with your long established tastes and not meant for one to surrender their wallet. Some think they've caught the audio brass ring on the cheap without giving it a serious listen, relying on someone who says "it's perfect because, measurements." As for cats, I like the dark grey ones with the bright green eyes. All the best, |
Amir has to stop with the medical analogies for their obvious flaws. Having cancer and not heeding your doctors advice will result in your dying of cancer. Enjoying the sound of a component and not following his advice that it measures poorly and therefore, should sound bad, will result in your still enjoying the component, unless you're very insecure. I think 10 out of 10 doctors would agree with that assessment and are thankful that Amir didn't choose a career in medicine. All the best, |
I made nothing up nor did I attribute the last sentence to what he said. That was my takeaway re:"confines of their own listening room." A very logical take on the whole process. Love how you use quotation marks to make it look like I said it was Paul speaking when I never used them. You're getting kinda paranoid...no? As for "hearing through a room", how is that really any different than what I summed up as "people listening to the room and not the speakers." You're down to splitting hairs or as they say, "a distinction without a difference." And Paul did say that the subjects had to wait about half an hour before going in and thereafter, it took a few minutes to adjust, now that they understood the room, their hearing processes having adjusted. A point of that podcast that seems to elude you is that the speakers were tested as they were being made so the final product is fine as is. To go to the bother of testing the speaker for your sake and pick it apart is just overkill. That goes for all other gear as well unless the maker is unscrupulous and cuts corners , which you give the impression of thinking practically everyone does so you have this ready made audience of insecure hobbyists eagerly awaiting your next pronouncement. Nice gig if you can get it. All the best, |
Paul Barton, of PSB, worked with Toole, Harmon and others back in the day of speaker testing. Check out Darko's interview with him. Worth a listen. Lots of people like to name drop the audio greats and then go on to reengineer their methods of testing while hoping no one catches on or knows better on just how to do it, fancying themselves as being oh, so, scientific. Paul pointed out that when doing the first round of speaker testing (1/2 hours worth), the tests were thrown out the window due to the fact that the people were listening to the room and not the speakers. Evaluations were all over the place. It's why one has a better chance on getting their ears around a speaker in the confines of their own listening room. It tool at least half an hour for their hearing to settle down before they could go back in and when they did, the very same speakers in the very same room sounded completely different and there was more consensus on what sounded good to them. Their hearing had adjusted to the room and not the speakers. Our ears adapt to a changing environment enough so that with enough time, we can better understand what we hear. We do it automatically when the change isn't that great but we still do adjust. Some call it second nature. What bugs me the most is that those who do the name dropping know damn well the facts I just stated if they have, indeed, looked into these speaker tests and conveniently left out those salient facts, relying on ignorance to carry the day. All the best, |
Name dropping leaders in their audio fields with Amir does a disservice to them. They used measurements to create and ensure great audio products whereas Amir uses measurements to tear them down. Not even close to the same thing. It's like citing the science and work behind the internet and saying Elmo is a genius. All the best, |
Without the internet, we wouldn't be talking about him. He and his audience are a product of our times and I'm old school enough to recognize a Johnny Come Lately with an agenda. He's really no different than an audio reviewer who sized up the playing field and saw an unoccupied space to settle down in. Heck, everyone's got to make a living. What upsets some is that he has his own belief system that contradicts most of ours. That's not a knock but just calling it like I see it. He's just one of many opinions and like elbows, we all have them. How much credence you give him and let it affect you, is on you. All the best, |
