"I think he’s doing a disservice to the finer art of audio by teaching that measurements are gospel. Basic measurements are a convenience and are a good starting point, but are not the entire answer."
The above represents my point of view.
Did he change my mind about anything? He certainly did. I used to think he was serious and had a reasonable point of view. His posts on ASR and on here convinced me of the opposite.
He has an agenda, and that is to promote his site. I also think he is somewhat unethical. He promotes products that are poorly built just because they measure well.. Look at the number of people on his site who complain of Topping products failing or not working as they should, yet Amir claims it is not his responsibility to look at the quality, just the measurement. I regard this as unethical; if you
praise or recommend a piece of equipment as a reviewer you should look at all aspects, not just measurements that may or may not have value.
His site is funny though, especially when some of the minions get wound up.
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"
If you are caught up in controversy about Amir, you are an idiot.
Have I made myself clear? Idiots?"
You certainly have. As you are commenting on this thread by your own definition YOU are an idiot.
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audphile - an excellent and accurate post.
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"And the same measurements are just as good as Mola Mola Tambaqui on other, way cheaper, DACs, like various Topping. Have you seen the point ranking system he has? So why in the world would you be happy spending $16,000+ in a DAC, when you can get the same measurements and points, and even more points, with a DAC costing a few hundred bucks, a small fraction of your Mola Mola"
Yes, the measurements are the same, BUT the Mola Mola 1) sounds a lot better 2) has far better build quality and is not likely to fail in a short period of time like on particular piece of Chinese crap touted by the minion master. (Does he get a cut?)
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"His does all this pro bono" Are you sure? He does not do it pre bono, he asks for donations. Also what does he do with the equipment that certain companies send to him?
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@tosch "
Did ASR change my opinions?
It changed my opinion on DACs. There is very little difference. I did some prikitive blind-testing at home and can't hear differences."
Wow, really? I have read a number of times on ASR that "Dacs are settled". "If they measure well they all sound the same."
Now I read a similar comment from you. For me they sound very different. When was searching for a DAC I listened to about 5 different ones at a dealer through the same equipment, There were big differences in noise levels and sound quality, and no, the most expensive was not necessarily the best.
At a friend's house I listened to a few more, again on the same recordings - mainly opera. Those based on ESS chips sound grating to me and I found it hard to listen to them for any length of time. One Chinese brand in particular does very poorly with female voices. I ended up buying a mid range one, but the one that sounded second best to me. (I could not the one that sounded best.)
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You are rude. You throw off people from your site simply because they express an opinion different to yours or the couple of knucklehead moderators you employ. Your minions are rude and do not brook other opinions either.
You have never explained why you recommend a product whose quality control is crap. Have you ever looked at the number of ASR posters who purchase equipment recommended by you that fails after a short period of time? There are a lot.
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"None of you bother to eliminate sources of bias and errors in your listening tests before claiming you hear this and that. "
Absolute rubbish Amir. You have no idea how many here actually do listen to a variety of equipment without knowing what the equipment is or what the cost is. Again you push the line that you are the omnipotent guru. There are others who have far more knowledge and experience than you, yet you push your video on "listener training" Please!.
"If there were flaws in my work by now there would be riots in streets with manufacturers countering them." There are and for what its worth Goldenone knows far more than you, but when he challenged your measurements you threw him out.
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@Mahgister
"For example in dac... Dac is a mature technology, and we can now afford a very good one at relatively low price..."
See, this is where the comment breaks down. You can get a very good measuring one, but it may not sound that good. However ASR minions will argue that all Dacs that measure the same sound the same. Rubbish! ESS based Dacs sound shrill in the mid range. Also what is this "mature technology"? Over the years technology tends to improve. Despite your name, (though the Latin is magister), you are not much of a teacher.
I have already said Amir is rude and intolerant. A number of posters have already been banned from ASR for posting contrary opinions, yet Amir is here posting his.
As far as Amir’s measurements being incorrect or off beam, there is plenty of information around on the web, you just need to look for it. Just one example is the silly testing methodology of the Chord M Scaler. Read the following if you want more examples.https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/65677-why-you-cant-trust-measurements/#comments
If you want more, look at some of Amir’s headphone reviews and then read the following:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/moapci/audio_the_rise_and_fall_of_rheadphones_favorite/
Then you get people like Matt Hooper, who is actually one of the members of ASR who has less of an attack dog mentality, and who posts under the name "Prof" here, though heaven knows what sort of Prof he is, who post nonsense like "The thing is his critics will never cut him slack." Well "Prof" if you come to erroneous conclusions or use poor methodology why should you get cut slack?
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Thanks for sharing that. I hope that your health is on the up and up.
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@rtorchia
"Personally I would never buy anything that wasn’t on his recommended list"
Well there are Dacs on his recommended list that measure very well that sound likr crap and have really poor quality control. Yet he recommends them. Wow!
@amir_asr
You said do we have further questions.
1) Why are you so rude?
2) Why do you throw people off your site for presenting contrary opinions?
3) I bought my Dac at a hifi shop by listening to 7 different ones through the same equipment, with the same music and I had no idea what brand I was listening to or what it cost. The dealer was happy to go back and forth. I purchased the one that sounded second best, (I could not afford the best when I found out what it cost. ) I can tell you that the Topping I listened to sounded like crap with female voices. So do not tell me like some of your minions post, that all well measuring Dacs sound the same.
4) When you recommend something and it later proves to have poor build quality, why do you not take some responsibility and post this? Do you not think it is unethical to leave the product with a recommended rating and not address the quality issue?
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"Indeed, his measurements are patterned after mine and using exactly the same measurement gear."
WRONG. He no longer uses what you use.
"violate every rule in proper listening test you wind up with some random choice."
What a load of rubbish. Can you not comprehend English? I had NO IDEA of the cost, the brand or whatever. The music and all other equipment was the same.
The only one who generates hot air is you.
You also still do not answer the question of morally recommending equipment of poor build quality. Maybe you can not?
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@amir_asr
Still you do not address the fact that you you continue to recommend products after they have been shown to have poor build quality. Ashamed or embarrassed perhaps?
To answer your question, Why do you not do your own research and look at Erin's site?l.
To answer a slanderous comment: I have no bias against Chinese products, in fact the exact opposite is the truth. Consonance is a great brand for example. I am biased against poor sounding and built equipment.
Anyway, I am done with this back and forth - you have shown your true colours yet again.
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I can just see Amir going along to the Met with his Klippel, testing the voices of the sopranos and suggesting which one to give a contract to for the next season of Madame Butterly or La Boheme. I am amazed the Met has not hired him yet. Oh wait a minute, Yannick Nezet Sequin listens to voices and does not measure them.
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"No one has said this. "
You seriously say this? I am calling you out on this. You clearly have no idea what is said on your own site. Do not come here and post crap.
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Curt, I am certainly not against measurements. What I find absurd is to say that equipment that measures the same sounds the same. So many on Amir’s site have said this. Not once has Amir commented on these posts.
I and others, have been thrown off Amir’s site because we questioned this. There have been many posts along the line of "You are a fool for buying this or that" because you can spend $100 and get as good/better, (insert what you will), with xyz.
The fact is that there are some very rude people on ASR - it is an unpleasant site - and when Amir comes here to recruit, he does not answer half of what is asked of him and acts in a condescending manner and claims he is doing audiophiles a service. This of course is absurd. At least he is not thrown off the site and that is a good thing.
I agree this thread has become ridiculous, however a lot of the bile vented at Amir is of his own making because of his high handed attitude and that of his camp followers.
Look at his comment on Erin's post, "Hate clickbait titles like that." As soon as he posted that in waded the minions and his attack dogs and there really are a couple of nasty people in that group.
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He did not "demand you reopen it". Anyone who wants to see Amir’s real self can read the last post in that thread. As no doubt he will delete the thread, I have saved his final post. What a piece of work.
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@amir_asr
Earlier today Amir basically claimed I was lying because I said his members claimed that Dacs that measured the same sound the same. He said"No one has said this. You all keep making stuff up and then complain about it."
It took me 2 minutes to find the following quotes:
However, the vast majority of DACs will sound the same.
Oh dear lord, DACs do not sound different. Please describe how you have tested these different sounding DACs. And please do not say I tested with my ears and I could hear the difference. That is I am sorry to say, just ridiculous and should never be typed on the Internet.
Firstly most all better DACs sound the same and people use their imaginations too much and believe all sorts of stuff is happening so be careful with other peoples’ DAC sound quality opinions. If there is a difference in sound quality and imaging and we are using the same DAC ICs then the only thing remaining that could affect the sound quality is the balanced/single ended input circuitry or the audio out circuitry which is basically the reversal of the input circuitry.
1) there’s no reason to believe they’d sound different in theory
2) there’s no evidence they sound different in practice
and therefore
3) no reason to speculate as to why they might sound different.
I think you are in the wrong forum. All DACs sound the same unless they are doing something really wrong.
Scientifically speaking DACs should sound the same.
Talk is cheap. Show us a double blind result where you can reliably make the difference between 2 recent dacs. We never saw a successful one. People are not able to differentiate between good amps, so for DACs no way. The differences are order of magnitude lower than what the human ears can differentiate. If you want to believe, that’s fine but you may not be on the correct forum.
Don’t beat yourself up over it. 99% of the people believe DACs all sound different because they heard it, read it in advertisements, watched/read reviews, were told by sellers or friends. A lot of ASR members belong to the small 1% of people that think/know otherwise.
So what is it Amir? There are 2 possibilities
1) You are not telling the truth or
2) You have no idea what your supporters post on your forum.
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"Nothing you quoted says those DACs measure the same. "
Amir, you clearly either do not read what is posted by your members or you are seriously deluded.
I am done with you. You do not answer many questions and when you do you twist your answers to suit yourself. I do not wish anyone ill, but I can say it is a good thing that so many realise your site is a joke and that the number is increasing. Please do not spread the furphy that you are doing people a service by running it.
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" ASR has had an incredible growth now being neck and neck for top audio site on the Internet."
Did you measure that scientifically in a blind testing comparison or is this your opinion only? Show us the evidence. Can this evidence be verified independently? This site is based on science and not opinion.
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"You go @amir_asr ! Taking em down like John Wick!"
Do you really think so Yowser? I think he has made a complete fool of himself. Perhaps you did not read the thread and notice his evasions and gaslighting.
Actually on reflection, you are correct. John Wick is a fictional character and most of Amir's replies resemble fiction.
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Can the moderator please close this thread or ban Amir or preferably both. Amir is using this thread to direct traffic to and advertise his site, things for which he has thrown off others from his own site. I am tired of his arrogance, insults and rudeness.
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