Did Amir Change Your Mind About Anything?
It’s easy to make snide remarks like “yes- I do the opposite of what he says.” And in some respects I agree, but if you do that, this is just going to be taken down. So I’m asking a serious question. Has ASR actually changed your opinion on anything? For me, I would say 2 things. I am a conservatory-trained musician and I do trust my ears. But ASR has reminded me to double check my opinions on a piece of gear to make sure I’m not imagining improvements. Not to get into double blind testing, but just to keep in mind that the brain can be fooled and make doubly sure that I’m hearing what I think I’m hearing. The second is power conditioning. I went from an expensive box back to my wiremold and I really don’t think I can hear a difference. I think that now that I understand the engineering behind AC use in an audio component, I am not convinced that power conditioning affects the component output. I think.
So please resist the urge to pile on. I think this could be a worthwhile discussion if that’s possible anymore. I hope it is.
It’s impossible to like everyone and Amir sure seems like a clown to me. I think I’m not alone in forming that impression of him.
He doesn’t seem serious to me and I don’t have to deal with him or any of his self-serving, self-promoting YouTube brethren. |
Who is "we"? How has ASR changed audio? Do you think he was the first to take measurements?
If you’re not listening to every piece you measure, you have no way of correlating measurements with sonic results. That he can’t be bothered to listen to everything he measures speaks volumes about him, and his opinion of himself. |
The site doesn't seem objective to me at all. Amir seems to have some very strong biases, to the extent that he doesn't even bother to listen to everything he measures. |
No, the issue here is very much you. The tens of thousands of audiophiles that you imagine have joined you in this crusade are, of course, free to comment here as well. But the issue here is you, your self-promotion, your "reviews," and your insistence that you are somehow free from bias, that you have no self-interest, that you are saving us from ourselves.
|
The only "point" Amir made that I need to reject is:
I know what I see. I don't allow others to tell me what I see. That he put this little bit of propaganda in bold face is especially telling. You're right that I ignore Amir's other points. Generally, I ignore him and ASR. I don't object to what he's doing at all - it's the way he portrays it that I find more than a bit misleading. |
Setting price aside, you actually seem much less critical to me than the typical audiophile. You do seem very sensitive and critical to price, though.
Audio marketing "broken to the core"? I guess you need to exert that kind dramatic flair to support your narrative. |
YouTubers need to differentiate themselves from the crowd of competing YouTubers. (The cost of entry is so low, that anyone can become a YouTube influencer!) The smart ones, such as Amir, find a "hook" and then cultivate the audience that follows it. Amir argues:
That premise allows him to be the savior. It’s the, "Only I can fix it" canard. |
Yes, I think Amir is thoughtful (as in deliberate) and whether he’s interesting or not is a personal choice. But objective? What makes you think he’s objective? He’s one of the most biased people who posts here. Assigning numbers to something is itself no proof of objectivity. I think Amir is a self-promoting measurementalist, and his outbursts here are at odds with his claim to logic and reason. |
Most rigorous double-blind listening tests include training. They don't so much train you to listen as they do train to know what to listen for. In a way, they "teach to the test." Typically, trained listeners are better able to distinguish differences in blind testing. Setting up a true, valid, double-blind listening test is much more work than many audiophiles acknowledge. So when manufacturers go to the trouble of doing this testing, they want to have meaningful data at the end of the day. |
Answering questions isn't the goal. Creating drama, fabricating "excitement," polarizing one group against another as a way to perpetuate influence, those are the goals. The show must go on! Most of these YouTubers are just clowns. |
That’s part of what’s so odd about this thread. It’s using A’gon to debate ASR in a way that wouldn’t be tolerated on ASR’s own site. That alone tells me all I need to know about ASR. |
This is just such nonsense, and made all the more so by the use of bold face for emphasis. Certainly, @mahgister isn’t trying to confuse the reader and isn’t obligated to provide anything to meet your definition of "proper proof." This is a hobbyist’s website, not a scientific forum or, in the case of ASR, a quasi-pseudo-faux-scientific forum. At the very least, @mahgister has pretty good grip on logic, which is probably why his posts confound you so. |
Your interaction reveals confusion. You might want to read your own words!
Again, you seem very confused and it’s not my role to assist you in promoting your site. |
Well, there you go again, another ad hominem logical fallacy, also known as a "personal attack." Of course, you reserve such attacks only for special persons that you alone designate. The irony is getting pretty deep here. |
It's true. By being consistent in his thinking and by always being polite, @mahgister has allowed Amir to display his true self. Credit is also due to @soundfield, for his compendium of Amir's manic posting activity. |
Ad hominem logical fallacy. Personal attack. |
You're right, of course. But the problem is that one of the persons in the debate has an ulterior motive: The promotion of his own website and forum. So he needs drama and conflict to maintain the excitement. |
You really have a problem if your manhood is threatened by @mahgister.
You've probably not tested for that. As you've explained previously, you don't even listen to everything you test. |
If you think you're being treated unfairly, take your complaint to the moderators. They'll delete posts that don't meet the guidelines. You well know that because you've had so many of your own posts deleted in this thread. |
This shows a complete misunderstanding as to the nature of double-blind testing in audio, such as ABX testing. Such tests are not designed to test the listener - that’s the role of an audiologist. The listener isn’t under test at all. What’s being tested is whether two signals can be distinguished under the conditions of the test. That’s why the best blind test programs include multiple listeners and multiple trials. Some might argue that, if a specific listener claims to expect a difference between, say, a hi-res and lo-res signal, that an ABX test with him is "testing the listener." But that’s mistaken. Such a test could only reveal whether that listener could distinguish a difference under the conditions of the test. Again, this why is why multiple tests yield more useful information. It’s rather odd that Amir is so preoccupied with conducting measurements that he sometimes doesn’t bother to listen to the devices he tests, and yet on the other hand issues such proclamations about the tests he’s claimed to have "passed." As an aside, conducting a proper audio double-blind test is tricky business. I've seen it done and it's not as easy as it looks. When they’re well conducted, I’ve found that many differences become harder to distinguish than might be expected. When they are improperly conducted, such a test has no advantage over a sighted test and can yield misleading results. |
I have never, ever said anything of the sort. Ever. Not once. Not here or anywhere. So, Amir, please stop with the insults and fabricated arguments. As to your claim that you listen to more in a month than audiophiles do in a lifetime: good luck trying to prove that. |
That is just a prejudicial statement. As with any group, all audiophiles are not alike, although I understand why it’s convenient for you to portray them that way.
Most objectivists do just fine in the audio world, as is demonstrated on this site every day.
But you’re not an objectivist, you’re a measurementalist. That’s how you can sweep aside any empirical evidence that doesn’t fit your agenda, which is to drive traffic to your forum and website. And it’s how you can just positively know how something will sound, without ever having gone to the trouble of actually listening to it.
Expectation bias; even measurementalists are not immune. In fact, they may be especially vulnerable. Your use of bold face fonts does nothing to further your argument, btw. |
It’s been shown how your listening "tests" and your claims about them are more than a bit suspect. In any event, the results of any tests I’ve been part of wouldn’t refute your tests, even if they were valid. That’s not how it works. Of course, your interest is to continue argument ad infinitum, so as to drive traffic to your forum and website. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that as long as you're honest about your intent. |
