DeVore O/93 or PureAudioProject Duet15 for a First Watt SIT-3?

@audition__audio 

Peace brother. I have been something of an ass and you have reacted like a gentleman. I apologize and will not say a negative word to you or about you if I can possibly help it. 

I have 2 friends which owned both the O/93 and O/96 DeVores. They replaced them both with speakers which conform more to the current standards of design. First order crossovers, narrow baffles, more inert cabinet construction, etc. It didnt take them long after getting the new speakers to discern exactly how much these DeVores actually missed or got completely wrong. 

Before I get to the heart of your post, let's get something straight; it is "DeVORE Fidelity" if referring to the company and John Devore if referring to the person, but there is no "DeVore". But that is a minor thing. 

As to the gist of your post, I happen to own both Devore O/93's and narrow baffle speakers with inert cabinets. "Current standards of design"? Who's standard are you referring to? My O/93's in my room and in my system far-outshine my other set of loudspeakers. No contest. They run circles around them. The other set are Spendor D7.2's which admittedly don't have, to my knowledge, first order crossovers. 

What sets the O/93's apart is more than truth to tone and timbre-those large baffles project a certain sense of physicality and body that are completely missing in the narrow baffled speakers. 

It all boils down to the non-debatable truth that all loudspeaker designs, regardless of price, present compromises. No one loudspeaker can do everything. There is a certain "blemished midrange" with the O/93's that can be heard at times and they are not imaging/soundstage champions. But they are imminently satisfying to those of us who listen for certain things. 

When so many widely respected reviewers have Devore O/93's or 96's and when so few appear on the used market, that has to tell you something. 

And last, for now, there are advantages to high sensitivity easy-load loudspeakers and wide baffled loudspeakers are much more suited to those design characteristics. 

Nope, one more thing. Any post that starts with "I have a friend" or "I have two friends" should immediately alert the rest of us that some disinformation/confusion/distortion is about to follow. 

I thought you were dead!  Sorry but not going to bite. 

First you post something that is indefensible, and then when I respond you accuse ME of trolling? I think it is safe to say that you can not respond with anything substantive and that it was me who should not have risen to the bait. 

Since I own the O/93 and I has something to say about them, my post was anything but a troll. 

And yes, Fred is dead, but KICK OUT THE JAMS MOTHER ________!

This is going downhill. I am sorry if my reference to your two friends upset you-that was not necessary on my part. But my point was that you have not owned or apparently listened to the speakers at issue. As to proof of my ownership, just go to my profile. You do know how to do that don't you? 

They are much less offensive than other speakers on poor recordings. This too is not a positive attribute. I think that this is the main reason we all preferred the more linear sound of OTLs on these speakers.

One of the S'Phile reviewers recently said something worthy of quoting-"If you have to play only great recordings for your system to sound great, it's time to change your system" (or something very close). While I am glad to see you now say that these are your opinions and not fact, your initial post and even the bold-faced sentence come across as statements of fact. 

In this case "musical" translates to colored. All you need do is compare this series of speaker with other types of designs to hear exactly what they portray that is not in the original signal. Not to say that this type of sound doesnt have its place and certainly its fans, but if you judge a speaker by how well it recreates the original signal these are a failure on numerous fronts.

You touched, purposefully or unwittingly, on a subject of much legitimate debate. Classical music fans love to argue that an optimum loudspeaker should be capable of recreating the sound they hear in their favorite row and seat in their favorite music hall but in the real world no transducer or speaker system known to mankind can do that and the very "model/conceit" goes flying out the window when the music was created and preserved for future playback in a studio. 

And then comes the unfortunate truth that speakers with perfectly flat and extended frequency response and dispersion characteristics can (and often do) sound boring. You are giving up your spare time to relax and enjoy, not examine and study as if in a laboratory hunched down over a microscope. Look at it this way-why do headphones which are capable of perfectly flat frequency response, no room interaction, and no cross-overs still implement some variation of the Harmon Curve? The answer, in case you don't know, is that they better enable the BRAIN to perceive a recreation of the real event and they sound better. 

And finally comes the reality (my version of reality?) that every audio system is an amalgamation of compromises from source to transducers. My point is simple; lighten up, relax, and have fun. Does your system make you wish you were young again and wailing on the guitar in front of a crowd? Does it make you want to get up and dance? The O/96's do that, better than my O/93's. I am currently strongly considering a pair of Volti Rival SE's. Talk about having fun, it is Greg Roberts' motto!

I own a pair of DeVore O/93’s and can strongly recommend them. I’ve yet to hear the “what they got wrong” part of them… However, you rarely see them on the used market and there are plenty of reasons for that. As for the, “narrow baffles, more inert cabinet construction” speaker, there’s nothing wrong with that design either. With that said, you can always take your pick of the litter, because there are plenty of them out there on the used market to grab. Good luck and have fun. 

  I have a virtually unused pair of Spendor D7.2's with IsoAcoustic footers for anyone interested. Original owner, boxes. They do nothing wrong. They are boring. 

I do hear the little midrange discontinuity/woody-notch in the O/93's but it does not phase me. But I often find myself attracted to women with slightly beaked noses. Character. 

I am guessing your main tribe is this https://auditionaudio.net/

If I am correct, why have you not identified yourself in your profile as being in the industry Mr. Jim Sautter?

@fsonicsmith   Wow!  Dealer has just been outed.  Scandalous indeed.  This must be the tribe of big secrets.

I can't tell if you are being sincere or sarcastic but no worries either way. No scandal. IIRC, there is not set policy here on this Board about disclosing industry affiliation but most times, those in the industry make it very clear on a volunteer basis. It's a matter of inherent truthfulness or lack of same. I did not see a single post by Mr. Sautter making his business interest clear. Granted, his user names does not make it difficult to discover. I am aware I am back and forth about this guy. Same with his posts-I agree with much of what he has to say and disagree with much of the rest. So it goes. Maybe he belongs to the Tribe of Contradictions. Contra-Tribe for short. 

Different tribes I guess

What is your preoccupation with "tribes"? Just how do you define "tribe". I see from reviewing your past posts that you use the term often such as here;

Somehow I doubt that. If this were true you should mention your experiment, give some details and say you heard no difference. All this other stuff is tribal. You go way past giving your opinion, ridicule others that dont share your opinion so that you are on record so you can find other like minded individuals which gives you comfort.

I am happy to give you a list of all the cables that I have used in the past 5 years. I can give you a list of power conditioners but I dont use these as any gains were offset by diminishments. Please share your experiences. Instead of smug remarks add something to this thread of substance.

Or you can just admit you dont buy into any of this at the theorectical level and be done with it. If you havent tried a bunch of cables no problem but dont get upset if some on this forum think this puts you in no position to comment.

So again why do you care?

And I notice too that you can not spell "judgment" (you add an "e" like an eighth grader) or "stance" ("stanch", really, are you using Siri when you post?) and you demonstrate a repeated dislike at every opportunity for Devore and Harbeth. And you refer to "friends" and "friend's systems" rather incessantly. You also have a pissy and contentious demeanor. 

For such an opinionated bloke (tribe member of unknown origin), why not post your virtual system for our much needed edification? 

Hi Jim. It is apparent from your Agon marketplace feedback that you started out selling only tubes through Feb of 2012 and then disappeared for four years before selling audio gear other than tubes (mostly Analysis Plus cables) in March of 2016 and since 2020 you have been selling the limited lines you carry. But you don't need me to tell you this. 

You do carry Atohm loudspeakers and they are narrow baffle and I bet they have first order crossover networks. I just (I swear!) looked them up and yep, Atohm touts their use of first order crossovers. So you did recommend a rather small segment of loudspeaker design philosophy that you happen to carry. Why cite to friends of yours and audio group get-togethers when you could have just said, "I am an audio dealer and here is my opinion...."?

I also find it contradictory that you criticize Harbeth and Devore for being "colored" when Rega turntables, which you carry and sell, have a rather unique sound of their own and can not be called "neutral" as conventionally understood. Those of us into vinyl know that Rega's generally run 1% fast by design and have a lively, speedy, quick sound to them that is a bit lean and midrange and bass shy. 

And last, your recent comment that Harbeth and Devore feature cheap components and construction is laughable. In the case of Devore, SEAS drivers are hardly cheap. Devores are also bespoke and built in Brooklyn, rather than being mass produced as so many modern loudspeakers are. The same applies to Harbeth. I don't own Harbeth and don't own O/96's so to say that the crux of the problem is my ownership is inherently false, at least in part. The crux of my problem with your comments is that I have heard wide front baffle loudspeakers from the likes of Audio Note, Volti, and Devore provide incredibly pleasing (the most pleasing) sound in difficult show conditions. 

@avanti1960 

I appreciate your comment. Mine likely have 50-75 hours. I thought they sounded best with the OEM cheap standard-issue spikes rather than with the Gaia footers I later tried and kept installed but I have beautiful/expensive walnut hardwood floors. The Gaia's allow me to move the Spendors into position so much easier and without worry for the flooring.

I don't think another two hundred hours is going to be transformative. I feel I have a pretty good grasp of their overall sound signature. They resemble a freshly ironed crisp white dress shirt to use a wardrobe metaphor. They lack corporal presence. I like to use the old chestnut The Arc Choir on Mapleshade to test for this quality. A loudspeaker that can recreate the church choir in real space with a sense of real, life sized diorama spread across the room is no easy feat. The D7.2's fail miserably. At least in my room with my gear (listed and shown in my profile) they don't hold a candle to the Devores. 

Brian Walsh (TTsetup.com) has been over five times and has heard both sets of speakers in my  listening room. He once made the unsolicited comment that the Spendors' sound is inferior (far inferior) to the Devores. So for whatever that is worth, I am not alone on this issue. How can one define for others what is boring and what is not? Rhetorical question. 

They resolutely track lightening fast transient rhythms literally better and with more refinement than horn speakers.  

OK. Now I have to take issue. "Literally"? I think you must mean "absolutely". Regardless of how you mean to use the word "literally" combined with "resolutely track", there is no way on God's Green Earth that I will accept that the Spendor D7.2's reproduce transients the way a Volti Rival will. You have added "refinement" into the mix. Some reviewers use "refinement" to mean inner detail and others use that word to mean "sophistication" and others use it to mean overall cohesiveness so I will not respond as to that. 

The dilemma now is between the O/93 and the O/96 (apart from cost). Which ones are more suitable for nighttime low listening?

The O/96's. But only by a slight margin. The names are derived from their respective claimed sensitivities though JA measured slightly lower figures. The O/96 has a higher performance woofer (more powerful magnet assembly). Over and above, the O/96 has a looser, more lively sound and the 0/93 is slightly buttoned-up by comparison. The O/96's are a bit more picky with room placement. 

For the money, I would get the O/93s. I think they are more cohesive and balanced. I noticed little to no difference in efficiency.

This is exactly what Don Better told me the one and only time I came to visit him up in Cleveland to audition the O/93's. He did not have the O/96's available to compare and he knew that I was primarily interested in the 93's. I paid for them that day and received them directly from Brooklyn a week later. It appears he lost his Devore dealership rights. 

At Axpona one year I went back and forth between a room with the O/96's and a room with the O/93's, no less than four times each. I liked the 96's a lot more than the 93's even though they sounded less cohesive-they were far more engaging. They were set up quite differently-the 96's along the long wall with nearfield seating and the 93's along the short wall with seating further back. 

I continue to believe, btw, that if you can afford the 96's, get them. I believe that as I said before, they will sound better at low volumes than the 93's. The price differential is surprisingly high given that they share the identical tweeter and nearly identical woofer and the guy behind Box Furniture Co. in the same Brooklyn pier warehouse as Devore that builds his cabinets can not be charging that much more for the bigger box. The x-over is said to be more "sophisticated", whatever that means, in the '96. I would love to ask John Devore what accounts for the price difference. I am sure he would say what I already said though-the woofer, cross-over, and cabinet. 

@markimiller 

How long did it take you to get the Komuro and which 300B tubes is John supplying the amp with? Did you ask about his upcoming amps and how he describe the differences in each amp? And one last question-did you have it shipped or did you go visit the Monkeyhaus?