Musikdok, I have not tried the Zerostat on CD's, but I am certain that it would not hurt anything. At the very least, the CD should become less likely to collect dust particles that can interfere with the laser pickup. Regarding other tweaks, there are countless cleaners and treatments for CD. I saw Audio Research using a CD spray treatment, and upon discussing it with them, they are convinced it is worthwhile. ARC is a pretty conservative company, I doubt that they would say that unless they heard a significant improvement. I used to use the CD stoplight, sold by Audioprism, this green fluid could be applied to the edge (both center and outer) and supposedly stopped laser scatter from introducing errors in the circuit. I do know that it was easily audible after applying, but each of you must decide how much of this is for you. As far as the other comments posted here, concerning static, magnetics, etc. I would not be surprised if any and all of these played some role in reproduction. The CD format is totally electrical in its retrieval, but at the same time, powered by a mechanism (motor) not far removed from a LP turntable. I believe that all the things that are done to isolate, insure speed accuracy, and prevent excessive vibration in a LP turntable, probably would apply to CD. I also suspect that there are many electrical things happening inside a CD player, that we do not fully understand. Certainly there is no harm in experimenting with some of these tweaks, the costs involved are ridiculously low. As in all things in life, garbage in and garbage out. Even a small change at the front end of a system can result in a really nice improvement in the music. |
Not to derail the magnetic train thread, but what about destaticizing CDs? I've never done it (nor ANY CD tweak for that matter), but I was told that that MAY make a difference with CDs (something about static charge causing "scattering" of the laser or some such explanation). I'm getting ready to purchase a Zerostat for my LPs, and may just squirt some ions onto my few CDs to see, er, hear if there's a difference. Anyone? |
brauser, what are the improvements you are hearing, which as you say makes Bedini II a "no brainer" tweak? Are you using duplicate CDs to carefully compare treated vs untreated CDs? And if you aren't what do you base your observations on? |
Hey Guys, are we dealing with system deficiencies or hearing
deficiencies??? The difference in using the dual-beam Bedini
vs. no treatment is a no-brainer. The difference is not a
subtle thing at all. It doesn't have to be any particular
unit, but effectively getting the flux field off the CD has
got to be a priority for and type of serious listening. |
Albert I think there are two types of Mag Lev trains in existence today (as far as I know) – one uses attractive magnetic forces and the other uses repulsive magnetic forces. Keep in mind that electricity and magnetism are forever linked together through Ampere's Law and Maxwell’s equations. Where there is current there is a magnetic field. Trains that use opposite magnetic fields are called electrodynamic trains. Trains that use attractive magnetic fields are called electromagnetic trains. So in the case of aluminum a current is passed through the aluminum and creates a magnetic field. A similar opposite current is passed through the rail and an opposing magnetic field is created. The two fields repel one another and the train is lifted. No back to the topic… If there is any charge on the CD (say like static) and you rotate that through a magnetic (say from internal power supply) field you have created current and a weak (I think opposing – not sure) magnetic field. If the laser pickup (wiring) is at all susceptible to induced EMI then I could see more "hash" in the system. Remember just rotating some wire through a strong magnetic field creates a generator I wonder if a CD behaves as a capacitor seeing how it is a conductor wrapped by a dielectric. It would be nice if the plastic were conductive so the platter could ground the CD as is plays - no charge - no voltage - no voltage no current – no current no magnetic field. Sorry for my EE rambling …. Cheers, Dan |
Cornfedboy: As far as I'm concerned your first post says it all. At one time I owned the Ultra Bedeni Clarifier "product of the year". Yeah right...it made absolutley no sonic improvement what so ever, plus the build quality was cheesy to say the least. |
albert: experimenting with tweaks is a fine form of entertainment among audiophiles. why should anyone waste his money, tho, on tweaks that don't work? i find it quite interesting to hear from those who have actually tried the demag devices their reports of results, or the lack thereof. if those reports are spurred by a clearly jocular post, what's the problem? i think most of us are adults here and can stand to have our "enthusiasm" questioned. what good would this forum be if it weren't for differences of opinion? i truly appreciate the increased level of civility in these threads of late and your efforts to establish and maintain that characteristic. i hope, however, that we can keep our collective sense of humor, lest these chats become akin to highschool historty texts screened through a sieve of political correctness into a tasteless pabulum. |
Here's another theory: the static charge in the plastic layer of the CD "bends" the LASER beam, causing jitter. Whatever the reason, my bulk tape eraser will continue to be used on every CD I play. All of which, incidently, have green edges. |
In April 2000 Stereophile reviewed a Japanese "demagnetiser"
he Furutech. These folks maintain, that their gadget is better then the Bedini, because the motor in the B. would "remagnetise" the CD. I've got a Furutech, it looks very nice and sexy and listening to good CD's through a really very high resolution system I try very hard to hear some sort of difference to untreated CD's. Sofar I am not sure of the effect. If there are differences, they must be very subtle. Kudos again to Albert. What would AudioGon be without him ! |
Albert, Thank You for reinforcing the "let's keep an open mind" cause here on Audiogon. While aluminum may not be a magnetic property in itself, have you ever built up a static charge by lazily walking across PLASTIC ( nylon, polyester, polyolefin, etc..) carpet and then touched a non ferrous piece of metal ? Now can you imagine "supercharging" your static build-up by rubbing your feet on the carpet at extremely high speed and then touching the metal ? That's kind of what is happening as the "plastic" CD is spun at great speed with a captive piece of metal inside of it. Keep in mind that this is ONLY a theory so PLEASE don't crucify me for it. My observation with the Bedini Ultra Clarifier is that it DOES work. The sound is smoother, offers more detail and has a quieter background in my experience. Then again, this is all subjective and this is only my opinion. Sean
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The Japanese have a ultra high speed train that is suspended by magnetic repulsion. The material that spins is aluminum. Although the material is non magnetic, the explanation is that the material sees its reflection in the high speed wave and creates a magnetic field that is near zero friction and strong enough to suspend the train. I am probably not explaining it well, and if there is any real interest on this subject, there are probably sites on the internet that cover it. The CD spins at well over 600 RPM, and I admit that I do not know if this could create any magnetic reflections or even if this particular explanation has anything at all to do with the subject we are on. I do know is that there are a number of people who I respect that say that using a demagnetizer improved the sound of their CD's. There was a time when I was told that the power cables running to your equipment could effect the sound, and I had a hard time believing them. Luckily I experimented and no longer own any factory supplied power cords. The point here is to discover what works, if this tweak does improve sound it may be worth it to him. Anyway, Hornby (the poster), probably does not care why it works or if any of us are correct in our theories. All that matters is that it is an inexpensive experiment, not much worse than some bad choices at the local music store in software purchases, and it might improve his entire library. One last thing......several years ago when I owned a Krell MD 10 CD transport, our group was testing digital sources, comparing Krell to Wadia and Theta. We had tried several types of interconnect and different feet, and we came to the stage where we adding weights to the top of the players. During one experiment I went back to play an LP and put the record jacket on top of the Krell after I removed the weight. There was an amazing improvement in the Krell when we returned to play it again, and we were totally puzzled by this before finding the solution. My room lighting is primarily halogen spots and I had installed photographic gels to correct the color temperature so LP's would look a more natural color. The top of the Krell is Plexiglas and the combined colors were causing errors in the laser. I reported this to Krell, and after they tested, they provided a modification where this unit was shielded from extraneous light to avoid this error. I know this is not related to magnetics, a laser is light and the error was caused by light, but there are many things that seem implausible at a given time that later have an explanation. As I said before, I am an experimenter and music lover, not an engineer. If this works for this guy, for whatever the reason, I hope he reports his findings here so someone else may benefit. I don't think making light of this posters enthusiasm to experiment is a very good source of entertainment. |
Maybe I am missing something but I thought CD's were optical devices and the core was aluminum and therefore non magnetic? |
ok, let's assume the aluminum core of a cd has microscopic ferrites in the material. how do such impurities affect the manner by which the disc is read? more importantly, what effect does "demagnitizing" have on these impurities? i don't have the answers to these questions, so i'd love to hear from someone who does. |
I own both radio shack demag unit and bedini II, and the bedini II is better IMO. However I rarely use either unit
now as I have become less convinced over time that they make
a noticable improvement. Just follow instructions with RS
unit as Albert above describes, substituting CD for tape.
Good luck. |
I have heard that demagnetizing CD's can help. I do not have any experience with this, but do not find it impossible to believe that the material (aluminum?) that the CD metal layer is formed from could not contain microscopic particles of magnetic material. For the CD to be 100% pure, probably would not be cost effective. As far as procedures, I guess experiment with it. On tape, you turn the demagnetizer on, come in close contact, circle the tape for 3 or 4 seconds, and slowly withdraw (two or three feet away), before turning off. The idea being that the stray demagnetizing field will collapse back onto the tape and add noise if you turn it off too close. I do know that using this procedure works with reel to reel and cassette tapes, as far as CD's, what can it hurt to try? Let us know if it worked. |
first thing ya gotta do is buy some cd's with ferrites or other magnetic material to demagnitize. once you've found some of those, post me an email and i'll send you, FREE, the secret code ring you'll need to continue with the process ($49.99, shipping and handling). |
