Dedicated phono-pre for MM only?


Hi All,
the subject of phono-pres, specifically 'adapted' to MM came up in some related postings.

IF, and only if, MMs are much to ones liking --- why spend your buck on some 'halve backed' 60dB plus, MC gain requirement, stage? Why not consider put the $$$ into a TOP 40dB gain stage of either SS or tube?

Raul had more thoughs on the subject as he mentioned before, and might share, why he knows that a TOP MM compared to MC stage circuit requirement might NOT be -one suit fits all-.

There could even be a nice argument to fit a tube gain stage only into an otherwise SS only system!?

Again, the $buck saved on the 20dB plus circuitry could be translated into the BEST circuit for an MM.
I realise, that most such stages were simply fitted inside some older TOP pre-amps, (e.g. Jadis...).
I have not come across a **dedicated** , current 40dB stage neither in nor outside a pre-amp.

Thank you,
Axel
axelwahl

Showing 6 responses by rauliruegas

Daer Axel: I can speak about that switch subject. During our researh and tests on the deign of the Esential 3160 and due that this PHonolinepreamp was/is designed for our ( José and I. ) specifics need in one of the prototypes ( the one battery powered. ) we have six phono inputs through a switch that I use it for several months till I decided to hear the same cartridges with out that switch where every change on tonearm/cartridge means disconnect/connect in manual way each time, well there is a quality improvement with out that switch and we decided to go in this " fashion ".

But the Essential 3160 is not a product thinking on commercial subjects ( facilities for the customer: using switchs instead that manual changes, switchs for impedance changes instead solder resistors, etc, et. ) but with targets of absolut quality performace where less means more and with no trade-offs or trade-offs at minimum. Many times this approach ( no trade-offs on quality performace. ) means that the Essential user has less facilities: switchs.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Dear Lewm: That's right, if I need a different load impedance then I soldered a new resistor value, no switch. Normaly almost all the LOMC cartridges comes with a very low internal resistance where 100 Ohms can cope all them. The other subject is that due to the Ponolinepreamplifier characteristics you don't need to change the load impedance, only in extreme very extreme cases.

Lewm, one way or the other normaly a switch makes a degradation to the cartridge signal so you have to make a decision on trade-offs between quality or convenience, we choose for quality performance.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Dear Axel: Why in a MC commercial world any phono stage or any Phonolinepreamp manufacturer have to take care about the MM alternative? when the MM alternative almost does not " exist " by commercial business.

So in the last years almost everyone commercial manufacturer build phono stages for the MC market even the ones that are for MM because it does not have enough gain for MCs but that they recommended using with external SUTs.

Only a few of us ( like Kirkus. ) that understand and like the MM virtues start to care on the subject and that through a research find that the MM needs are way different that the needs for the MCs.

That's why our units has separate and dedicated MC and MM phono stages that cope totally the MC specific needs and the MM specific needs. These different topologies make a quality differences on the sound reproduction?, ABSOLUTELY YES.

Lew sum up correctly: " One topology does not ideally fit all. "

IMHO the MM alternative is so good an friendly that even if the phono stages are not designed on its specific needs the sound reproduction quality on these cartridges is just glorius.

Now, on the convenience to switch from one stage to other or to choose load impedance through switch/jmpers or the like Lew say " I'm purist " an even that my Atmasphere has those jumpers I solder the resistors directly. A switch/jumper or the like is always a compromise even if that compromise is at minimum even if you can't hear it. When we are talking of MC/MM we are talking of very delicate signal at very low output/gain where these low signal are easy to contaminate even if you " bread ". That's why I prefer ( between other things. ) integrated units ( Phonolinepreamplifiers. ) instead phono stage that has to be connected to a line stage through additional cable/connectors.

Btw Lew our uit is differential/balnaced too in the MM stage.

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Dear Axel: +++++ " some renown reviewers / testers having found, that even in a balanced design (not pseudo) the single-ended still sounded more 'natural'. " +++++

the main subject here IMHO is the kind of topology in the design, there are very good balanced designs and there are too not so good balanced designs. This not so good balanced designs performs a " step " down the unbalanced good design performance but IMHO not because the unbalanced is better.

As in other audio areas here there are good, regular and bad designs.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Dear Axel: ++++ " Balanced = Hyper-clean and dynamic vs. unbalanced = naturalness, less clean, and better harmonic completeness " +++++

IMHO I think there is no trade off but different quality level designs, that's all.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
Dear Tom: Yes we use 60 db too in the MC phono stage circuit and we can get, on the whole/overall Phonolinepreamplifier, ( changing the line stage gain ) easy 90 db, I never have the necessity to go to a higher total gain.

Normally 60 db is enough for almost any LOMC cartridge. I own the Ortofon MC- 2000 that is very low output ( 0.05 mv. ) and I can handle very good with very low noise/distortions, yes the Esential attenuators has to be around 3.0 o'clock for around 83-84db on SPL in my system.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.