Decware - any substance here?

Would anybody be able to relate experiences comparing Decware amps to Almarro?

I understand why a low profile designer/manufacturer, especially one a bit iconoclastic and with a dedicated fan base, might generate some of these impressions, but in my dealings with the Decware community, I believe these are inaccurate impressions. Many in the Decware user base have in fact been all over the map with product, and some might be relatively untested, but once seduced, stay seduced. ;-). I came to Decware late in life, having been a builder or owner of everything from Dynakits as a youngster to Carver to Quad (electronics and speakers), Linn, Infinity, Conrad-Johnson, Maggies, Acoustats, Transcendence, etc. So, please try not to form impressions about a product based on misinformation about its customers.

I understand the interest in comparing Decware to other stuff, but I, like many Decware users are either long-time audiophiles, DIYers or/and musicians….a crowd that is accustomed to critical listening. I personally prefer to compare Decware to life. This is not the same as comparing gear, but it is the most valid comparator I can think of. I just want it to feel as real as I can get it without breaking the bank. I also want a certain level of flexibility within this "realness." This requires that special balance of detail, liquidity, tonal balance, weight, definition, openness and all those other things we try to describe sound we love with. But those things are never enough…..it needs that special indescribable quality that makes me happy and amazed when I listen. The final determinant: does it suck me in to the music.... am I fully engaged and captivated by the music? And this can't happen unless it sounds and feels extremely lucid and complete.

As to whether the Torii is too detailed. The amp is very detailed in every respect due to its quality, simple and synergistic design….it even uses regulator tubes in parallel for power filters. But is also liquid, slightly warm, and has deep and detailed bass….not cold. All delivered with speed and open, harmonically textured definition. If you look at the Decware forum, you will not find many Torii posts wanting more bass. For more, this amp taught us that more room treatment may be needed to utilize the amazing bass it offers. Anyway, I would call the detail real, not hard or clinical.

You also have five sets of tubes you can roll, so not to worry if the voicing from Decware (which is very good) needs adjustment to your tastes. It is a tribute to how revealing the amp is that all of them make big differences in my system. Even a 50s-60s tungsol OB3 reg compared to Sylvania OB3s of the same period are similar, but real choices…not to mention more apparent tubes like many available 6-type input tubes. And with the bass pots, treble cut knobs, bias and impedance switches, Decware starts us off well, but gives a lot of flexibility to tailor the amp to tastes.

Not that I want the amp to gather too much attention as it takes a while to get stuff as it is, but this might answer the question about Decware going to shows....it appears that they have more than enough to do as it is!

And yes I am biased, and glad I found them. Their design work suits my ears and budget.

Happy Listening!

Will
As to whether the Torii is too detailed. Not for me, but I am into detail. The amp is very detailed in every respect due to its simple and synergistic design, even using regulator tubes in parallel for power filters. But is also liquid, slightly warm, and finally, has kick assed bass. All delivered with speed, depth, texture, and open but not cold definition. If you look at the Decware forum, you will not find many Torii posts wanting more bass. For more, this amp taught us that more room treatment may be needed to utilize the amazing bass it offers. Anyway, I would call the detail real, not hard or clinical.

You also have five sets of tubes you can roll, so not to worry if the voicing from Decware (which is very good) needs adjustment to tastes. It is a tribute to how revealing the amp is that all of them make big differences in my system. Even a 50s-60s tungsol OB3 compared to Sylvania OB3s of the same period...not to mention more apparent tubes like the input tubes. And with the bass pots, treble cut knobs, bias and impedance switches, Decware starts you off well, but gives you a lot of flexibility to tailor the amp to tastes.

Not that I want the amp to gather too much attention as it takes a while to get stuff as it is, but this might answer the question about Decware going to shows....it appears that they have more than enough to do as it is!

And yea I am biased, my system is mostly Decware at this point, and I am glad I found them. Their design work suits my ears and budget.

Happy Listening!

Will

Sorry about the double post... I must have messed up.

I own a Decware system.I am currently using the select monoblocks[purchased in 2003]with the cce upgrade.Also the CSP preamp and HDT speakers.I own an Orgin Live Calypso turntable and use the Decware phono section with remote power supply and adjustable on the fly gain control.I use the Decware Z-box[a tube output stage]with my Cambridge Audio 540 Azur CDP and get an improvement that far exceeds the cost.Finally,all my interconnects,speaker cable,and main power cords[amps,preamp,and phono section]are Decware as well.This system is an emotional experience every time I spin a record,offering reference sound without the corresponding price tag.I had onwed a Naim system before, the main piece being the NAP 250 amp.The Naim system doesn't hold a candle to this decware system and I really don't care what you think.The lack of smugness and elitism with this company is the first clue.Hearing is confirmation of this.In closing,Decware products more than anything point out the lie of overpriced inferior "mainstream'audio equipment.

Decware? Lots of substance there.

About 10 years ago I purchased a SE84 'B' from Steve and spent a good deal of time searching for the proper loudspeakers. With very low powered single-ended amps there IS NO substitute for the very highest efficiency loudspeaker you can find. I had tried 90dB single-drivers, 95dB PA drivers (with a crossover) but found no joy. I moved on to other, more powerful amps to drive my avg. efficiency speakers (90dB).

Only recently did I find a set of rear-loaded horns with Decware's modified Fostex FE206E and now I finally hear what all the fuss is about -- a 96dB crossover-less speaker properly integrated with a powered sub is a match made in heaven. Now I've got dynamics, detail, disappearing speakers and a sound-stage like I've never heard before.

I'm using the Torii 3 to drive a pair of Zu Soul Superfly speakers and it is an outstanding amplifier. Top to bottom control over my drivers I have not experienced previously. DEEP POWERFUL BASS, exceptional dynamics, really great texture and tone and some of the most harmonically developed sound I've heard.

This is a reference level amp and I consider myself difficult to please. Immediately before the Torii I was using a Shindo preamplifier with 845 SET monoblocks and the Torii (naked) does most things as well, some things better!

OP, only thing left to do is try it.

I just replaced the stock fuse with a HiFi tuning Supreme and the results are good.

If you like to tube roll , don't forget to roll the fuse also.

If you are a Re-fusenik,you'll miss the next level of performance the DecWare amps are capable of.

Question: How much heat does the Zen Tori throw off. I went from a large class A tube rig to Class D to cut down on the heat, but I miss the tube presence.

Alan

A lot hotter than a Class D amp, yet cooler than a large Class A tube amp. It is only a 25 watt amp, how many watts was your large Class A tube amp? That should give you some sense of proportion, but all Class A amps will give more heat per watt than a Class A/B or D amp.

Just want to add my experience for the record.
I have owned Quicksilver Silver 90 monoblocks,
Cary SLI-50, Unison Research Unico and Sr-1, AES Superamp, with VAC classic, Joule Electra LA-100 MkIII, Audible Illusions, Classe, and Bottlehead preamps, solid state amps like Odyssey Stratos, Jeff Rowland, Classe, YBA, Bryston, PS Audio, and some I've forgotten. Speakers? Harbeth, Spendor, Audio Physic, Magnepan, Avalon, Silverline, Shamrock, Gershman Acoustic, Reference 3A, Totem, Coincident Speaker technology, etc. I've been searching for my own personal audio holy Grail for 14 years. I finally found it with the lowly combination of the Decware SE34i.2+ and Klipsch Forte II speakers. Source is a Well Tempered Labs TT, Music Maker cart and EAR 834p phono pre with Amperex Bugle Boys.
The Decware has Svetlana Winged C EL34s and Mullard GZ32 rectifiers. Cables are Cardas NR and speaker cables are Anticables. By an audiophiles definition this is a budget system. And yet it's the most musically satisfying system I have ever owned. It's so good that 2 of my audiophile friends have exactly replicated my system in their own homes (different sources but same amp, speaker cables and speakers. Steve Deckert makes incredible gear at very affordable prices.

You use the built in attenuator? No CSPS?

I do not use the built in attenuator, there are two RCA inputs one for fixed and one for variable attenuation.
I use the fixed input.

I would feel better if there was no attenuator in the circuit, but the fixed option is fine.
I have run the amp without a pre and it's quite good, in most cases you won't need anythingelse.

I have a volume control on my Audio Aero Capitole cd player that is run fuul up at unity gain, the fixed volume pot on the DEcWare and the volume control on the Manley sSteelhead.

My audiophile inner self tells me this wrong, too many attenuators stuck between me and the music, but I like what I hear.

Maybe someday I'll get adventurous and rid a few of thos pots from the mix.

This is all very exciting to me, as I am waiting for my Tori III due end of April or early May. I am happy with my PrimaLuna Prologue 5 and my Bottlehead 300B Paramounts, but after reading about the Tori I knew I would have to take the test... My Tannoy Canterbury SE's are pumped... I'll let you know.

Hope you enjoy :)

First, I am sorry that Pubul57 is no longer with us since 4-16. He was a very fine gentleman. My Torii MKIII was completed in Mid-May, but I arranged to pick it up on June 4.
Steve, DeVon and Sarah were very gracious as always, and my amp was actually running when I arrived, and had 20-25 hours on it. Cool, that much closer to break-in! When I got it home I played the Irrational But Efficacious CD and that day it lost all harshness and has been utterly magical since! It is a very synergistic match with my Tannoys... I am blessed and grateful!

I bought a Zen SE84CS kit some years ago to run with the Klipsch floorstanders I had at the time. Excellent experience building the kit, learning from my mistakes and fixing them. Amp works great, very quiet, soundstaging galore and king tone. No one area is exagerated. I have lusted after the ToriIII and am planning to sell my ARC SP-11 and get the Decware pre-amp and phono set up. I have never talked to Steve but every dealing with the company for tube sets and ordering the kit has been excellent. I personally am tired of the audio merry-go-round with gear and am moving to a Decware system to get back to listening to the music (not the gear!!) Highly recommended!

I have a Decware CSP2+ headphone amp paired with a set of Beyer DT880 (600 Ohms) headphones.

I am currently in Audio Nirvana everytime I listen to music from my Decware amp.
For Audio Nirvana, all you require is a Lorenz (Stuttgart Germany) PCC88 NOS tube which

costs only 10Euros in the input tube position.

The only complaint I have is the 4 month wait one has to endure after placing your order.

Regards,

Lord Soth

Those tubes are almost impossible to find.

The OP back in 2010 mentions no genuine reviews. There is one on the Zen Torii in Tone Audio, Issue 41 November 2011.

I have only owned Solid State amps that cost a bit more than the Torii MK III and the Bob Latino ST-120 KT-88 tube amp. I really liked ST-120 but my Torii blows everything away that I have tried. It is the most musical amp I have ever owned. I never believed in “break in” until the Torii. After about 300 hours the amp was probably 25% better. It actually became more dynamic. I will probably never want another amp.

Now that I have had my Torii MKIII for nearly two months, I am ready to make an educated comparison with my other amps.
My Bottlehead 300B Paramounts are a great bargain, and a great way to experience 300B goodness on a budget. They give
world-class clarity using EH Gold tubes, and with my Clarity
speaker cables they have serious 8 watts each indeed...

Then I have my PrimaLuna Prologue 5 stereo amp, Gold Lion KT88s, no NFB, 36wpc. This amp is very clean and powerful into my 96dB Tannoy Canterbury SEs, very smooth and involving, also very cost-effective and reliable. It gives a very good account of the music, and not bad space...

My Torii MK III exhibits very high power with excellent clarity and it increases the level of detail, with no hifi artifacts at all, just the music.

I hope my economic world doesn't collapse so I don't have to sell any of them, but the Torii is really special!

I'm strongly considering the Torii MK III, but I'm in a delicate situation.

I'm pursuing a system that maximizes involvement and vocals (a romantic sound, basically), and though I don't have anything against accuracy/detail/dynamics/bass, I'll sacrifice them without a second thought if it gets me more of those two traits.

So, would the Torii be for me? It seems most people are espousing the traits like detail/bass/dynamics that I do not care about, whereas I've heard worrying things about involvement and vocals. In regards to involvement, I've heard from one person this errs more towards an intellectual presentation than an emotional one. Not that the Torii isn't emotional, but if I'm searching for the most emotional/involving amp possible, would I be directed towards the Torii? I also haven't heard much about the vocals, which to me I guess means they're good but not a standout, I'd suppose?

It's a sticky issue for me whether or not to audition, mostly because I can't. I'm sitting on Cary 805C monoblocks that I just purchased, and I'm trying to figure out whether I made the wrong decision and I should just get the Torii. I don't have a pre-amp, so I'll have to buy one, and after that I just don't have the money to float to get a Torii.

The Torii by itself is not a romantic sounding amp and probably errs a bit towards the analytical. I found to flesh out emotion and involvement an excellent preamplifier was in order. I used an Audion pre when I had my Torii--a nice pairing.

Note: The Torii is hard to made to a preamp.

Hygienist, I am a vocal junkie. The Torri is incredible with vocals, both male and female. The kind that gives you goosebumps. I do not use a preamp but rather my Anedio D2 dac direct. It makes for incredible transparancy and yet at the same time the most intimate presentation I have heard. I ended up going back to the stock JJ's 6AC7 but rolled with different rectifiers (Svetlana 1957 5c3s/5u4g  Rectifiers - texture kings) and 61NP-EV input tubes (a bit of warmth and seduction). These input tubes and rectifiers contribute to the vocal quality you are after. When tube rolling for male vocals I use the Johnny Cash American albums and anything by Mark Lanegan/Isabel Campbell, Morphine, Tom Waits ballards, and Houndog, for female vocals, Lhasa and Isabel Campbell. I am in heaven. With this combo and my Zu Superfly's the vocals are startling in there immediacy, texture and emotion. Source is critical for the Torii to really shine.

Orangecrush: I had almost the exact same tube compliment and the same fantastic results with Zu Omen Defs w/ HO Drivers paired with the Torii. Do you have the old HO drivers or the new Nano Drivers?

Vocals were amazing, life like and very convincing. In addition the Torii was very fast, quite detailed, and the best amp that I owned in combination with the OmenDefs (and I bought and auditioned many fine and expensive amps). For vocals, it was not quite as good as the Coincident Frankenstein 300's, but in the end I sold the Franks and kept the Torii as it had 99% of the performance in the vocals and was much better with more dynamic and bass heavy music.

However, as we all should know, it's all about synergy! When I sold the Zu's and changed to Pendragons, I could not tame the bass from the Torii And I spent long hours trying to figure it out to no avail. The Torii is very transparent, quite detailed, and definitely will reveal system weaknesses. So if you are in need of more warmth in your system then I would go with a different amp, and if you want to stick with Decware the Mini Torii is on the warmer side of neutral than the Torii.

I can unequivocally say that Zu plus Decware is a fantastic pairing! Now that I have Zu Def Iii's I wish I had the Torii back, though the new Zu drivers are less warm and more detailed than the older drivers, so that may affect the synergy again.

Has anyone heard the new Torii Monos?? Impressions?

They were just announced this week and since Decware has a two month wait, I would guess that no one has heard them outside of Decware. There is a DecWare Festival in a few weeks if you live in th Midwest.

Hi Morganc, the website say the soul superfy's use the Zu260FRD/G4/HO driver. That is the old one, right?

Forgot to add, I had my Torri built with 16 ohm and 8 ohm transformer taps. While the 8 ohm sounds good with the Zu Superfly's the 16 ohm adds more weight and dynamics.

Yes the HO Drivers are the ones that I had with my Omen Defs. Those paired very well with the Torii.

I have never heard the Decware amps but I do have one of their very basic Pre-amps, it used to be available as a D.I.Y. Kit and was personally built by the main guy there at Decware and used in the ads and manuals.

It is one of the best Pre-amps I have ever owned, have had it for years and have never had an issue. I bought it so when I build one of the kits my self I know how it should sound. I have not built the Pre-amp yet, it's on my todo list.

I love the look of Decware gear, with all those tubes etc. very classic styling. I would like to buy one of their headphone amps.

Gopher,
did you buy a Tori Mk 3 with VCAPs, just wondering. I recently sent my Tori back because something was wrong with it after a ton of run around but it turned out some solder joints had actually broke how is anyones guess. The other reason I sent the Tori back is that whilie using it with the GR Research Super V's I built it produced a annoyingly loud hum thru the upper driver of the Super Vl After about a year of trouble shooting and avoidance I was finaly able to send the unit back for it's supposed lifetime warranty. the unit was only partially fixed, as the attenuator was monkeyed with and still doesn't work right and there is still a hum thru the speaker, although it's not quite as bad as before. So if I had a complaint it would be when a audio builder is asked if his amp will play nicely with another person's speakers then I wish it were true of what I was told in the first place. The amp doesn not play well with the Super V and a very annoying hum omits from the speakers to this day if I'm even listening. I've had the unit completely overhauled, it has VCAP's, Shugang Treasure matching quad output tubes, the attenuator and what looks like new transformers even but non the less it does not play with my super V speakers so I am forced to sell, but not a sole is interested in buying this so called classic. Man I hate it when things like this happen. Now I can understand why he does not have but a small handful of reviews done on his equipment out of fear they'll uncover the pitfalls.Unless of course speakers and preamps are bought from decware as well then you may bery well have something there.

I can't speak for your experience but I have asked Decware a LOT of questions and everything I was told was found to be true. I just got my Torrii back from a an upgrade and my dealings were as good as when I bought the amp. The upgrade sounds as good if not better than what I was told. My first set of speakers with my Torii MKIII were Klipsch RF-7's and the combination simply rocked. No hum at all. My next pair of speakers were Decware HDT's. They don't have as much bass as my Klipsch's but they image better.

I have several hundred hours on my Torii, and it works flawlessly, dead-quiet with my Lowthers. Before selling the amp, I would try it with another pair of speakers.

Yes, lots of substance at Decware. The only product of theirs that I have purchased is a pair of DM945 stand mount speakers. They sounded great for a stand mount. From top to bottom they were great sounding. I stupidly sold them to raise some cash for another project. Man am I stupid. That is the biggest audio mistake I ever made. When I get some more money together I will purchase another pair.....

I ordered a Decware SE84CKC 2 watt Zen in early Oct--it was delivered 11 days ago. My Cary 2a3 mono blocks, along with my direct coupled Cary SLP 50B preamp, were pulled from my system, and the little $900 Decware amp was put in place. With a little over 200 hours of continuous music playing, I feel comfortable making a few comments about the performance of the new Decware amp.

My very simple system is composed of a BAT VK-D5 SE CD player, Zu Definition MK III speakers, and now a $900 2 watt Decware amp. The Decware amp has completely crushed the Cary in every important performance category. It is embarrassing to admit that I didn't have a clue how good my CD player or speakers were. I wish I could take back some of the negative remarks I have made about my BAT CD player and my Zu Def 3 speakers the past couple of years. The Cary trio, which for 12 years anchored my main system, was an extremely weak link in my system and I was ignorant to that fact. The Cary's are very capable performers in their own right, but the little Zen amp far surpasses the Cary's ability to resolve detail, create a realistic sound stage, reproduce lifelike instrument and voice timbre, handle dynamics--they simply make music sound way more real. The $900 Decware completely destroys the Cary trio. The differences are so pronounced, that comparisons are really not appropriate.

The Decware Zen performs at a shockingly high level. It difficult to face the fact that the Cary's, which I happily lived with for 12 years, are being replaced by a much superior amp whose cost is approximately 6 times less than the Cary gear. I am blown away by how the Zen has transformed my system. The little Decware SE84CKC is a fabulous amplifier!

I am having my CSP2+ Decware pre-amp upgraded to the newly available cryo treated beeswax capacitors for use in my analog system

Does anyone own LORE 2.0 speakers [~98dB efficient/8 ohm] and the DECWARE Zen Triode Amplifier (SE84UFO) Single Ended Triode--how do these sound together?   The SE84UFO uses a single EL84/6P15P output tube per channel driven by a 6922/6N1P dual triode [2.3 watts/ch].  Lore 2.0:   https://positive-feedback.com/Issue60/tekton.htm

I’m looking at the SE84UFO also to pair with Zu Soul Superfly. I’m assuming from @gopher that this won’t be an issue. Source will be an Innuos Zenith going USB into a Chord Hugo TT2 DAC.

Thoughts?