Thom,
You've made some astute comments regarding the Daedalus. I've have listened to the Athenas only once but have heard the Ulysses on 3 occasions (twice with tube amps and once with the SS Mod wright). This speaker clearly was better sounding with the tubes driving it. Superior naturalness, emotional involvement, musical ebb and flow . In summary the presentation was noticeably more musically convincing/realistic. Thus my earlier post recommending high "quality " tube amplifiers of low to moderate power.
Thom this just means that we probably share similar taste. Without question there are listeners who will definitely prefer a transistor amplifier (I get the impression that the builder himself likely prefers SS power). So once again it always boils down to a matter of taste. I agree also with the preference towards higher efficiency easier load speakers, they just make more sense to me. I appreciate the input and perspective of all of the participants here.
Charles |
david121,321 posts11-12-2016 12:58am I am not a fan of Magico either, too dry and analytical for my tastes, though I can see the attraction. Daedalus work with SS and Tubes. The company has always, as far as I know, Demo’d the speakers with Modwright SS Power Amps, at Shows. I personally prefer the sound with Tubes, in particular my ARC REf 75SE, but each to their own. I’ve heard Daedalus Athena V2 speakers with Zesto valve amps & thought they sounded natural and smooth, though I personally prefer my S5 Mk2’s which are just more involving and engaging, and give me more insight into the music. The S series is a bit more laid back in presentation, warmer & fuller sounding than the old Q series, though the S1 & S5 Mk2 are a bit more neutral than the Mk1 models. Paired with Vitus, Pass Labs, Absolare or Pass IQ amps & smooth, liquid sounding cables like Jorma, you can definitely get a more natural, liquid & relaxed sound which is easy to listen to. |
I’m a horn guy, but needed a box speaker for demoing my Galibier products. Most folks get disoriented when presented with a horn system and I needed to address this. After hearing my customer’s (jazzdoc) Ulysses, I began to explore them further.
The Daedalus speakers in general will pass the amplifier’s sonic signature through. My auditions with solid state and hybrid amps were uninspiring and I was about to strike them off my list, but suspected it was the amplification. I finally plugged in some competent vaccum tube amps and was sold.
The Athenas are a bit less sensitive than the Ulysses and you could get by with the right 300B amp if this were your leaning. I’d say 20 watts (or my NiWatt amp) would be playing it safely.
The flip side is that the Athenas will handle 150 watts of solid state as well - as witnessed by an after hours session we held in Newport a few years ago. Someone asked how realistically they’d reproduce The Who. I put in my musicians earplugs and we let ’er rip. He was impressed.
While I’d also say that the Ulysses have a BBC/Harbeth thing going, the Athenas are a bit more US sounding - a tighter, punchier bass. Family resemblance, but with differences.
When presented with an option, I’ll always opt for the higher efficiency speaker. It’s more than about amplifier power. Lower sensitivity loudspeakers by definition, lose more energy (heating the voice coil). This in turn results in compression - irrespective of amplifier power.
Lastly, you'll find Daedalus owners are not gear swappers. They've been through the process and once they arrive at Daedalus, they consider themselves done. The only reason I'd ever sell my Daedalus' would be to return to my first love (horns) - certainly not for any other box loudspeakers.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design
|
I am not a fan of Magico either, too dry and analytical for my tastes, though I can see the attraction. Daedalus work with SS and Tubes. The company has always, as far as I know, Demo'd the speakers with Modwright SS Power Amps, at Shows. I personally prefer the sound with Tubes, in particular my ARC REf 75SE, but each to their own. |
If I were to go Magico the S5 MK II would be my choice and tailor a system around it as melbguy1 describes. Of the speakers discussed success can be achieved with each.
I’d take the Daedalus and match it with a top tier moderate power SET or class A push pull tube amplifier, all out quality of watts over quantity. That’s me, other pathways could be equally sucessful for sure.
Charles |
charles1dad5,137 posts11-07-2016 11:53pmHello Melbguy1,
I’ve heard the Magico in a audio dealer showroom and CES x4, RMAF x1 and Axpona. I’ve listened to the Q 3, Q 5 and the Q7 as well as the S1, S3 and S5. The S5 driven by the Absolare Passion Signature amplifier was the best sounding Magico demonstration I’ve heard. I didn’t care for the Q models driven by the Soulution amplifiers. In fact the Q range was better when paired with the Constellation amplifiers.
I don’t doubt what you say and I’ll concede that you have more intimate experience with Magico than I. I can only report on what I’ve actually heard. I feel the Q series is more analytical in character than their S series. No question that electronics, cabling and acoustic room treatment can certainly impact the end result to some extent.
Charles I wasn’t particularly engaged by the Q3 either which was too clean and lacking soul, though I liked the Q1.And atleast Soulution’s old series were absolutely emblematic of the same kind of sound (ie: a poor match with the Q series imho), though the latest 5 & 7 series are supposed to be more musical. The Magico S5 Mk2 is definitely a big improvement over the Mk1, and a much more complete speaker. Like all Magico speakers, they need some warmth and tube-like liquidity in the chain, and excellent attention to detail from grounding/conditioning to amps, isolation, cables & front end. Everything matters. But the reward should be worth it! |
Thank you all for sharing your experience. That helps a lot!! I was guessing Magico would be classified as the more analytical speaker when I posted my question. And I think I am confirming my assumption now. Has anybody paired Daedalus speakers with solid state amps? I'm thinking about getting a pair of Daedalus but would like to keep my electronics (Hegel H200 integrated, Hegel HD25 DAC). Thoughts?
|
As a Daedalus DA-RMA user I second, third, whatever the comments made. My speakers have similar range and cone compliment to the Athena. In fact they are a large Standmount version of the Athena. I auditioned a number of efficient speakers before going with Daedalus and the two other makes I could have happily lived with were Devore and Silveline, specifically the Bolero, but over twice the price of mine.
Devore and Daedalus are on the Musical side of an imaginary Musical, Detailed spectrum and both do well with Tubes. Lou at Daedalus, claims you can run his speakers with 8 SET Watts, but ideally more is better. A 20 Watt Ayon amp I was using at the time worked well, as did a 50 watt Pathos Inpol, but my ARC Ref 75SE is a great match. Both would be a great choice, but Daedalus pips Devore to the post, for me, Plus Lou is a great guy to deal with
|
How would you compare the sound of Daedalus Athena with the other non high-efficiency speakers (used) in the same price range? I can’t speak to that in terms of experience with recent models, and I’d be hesitant to do so anyway because it would inevitably come down to the specific models being compared and to personal preference. But as a Daedalus Ulysses owner (since 2010, and with no interest in changing to anything else in the foreseeable future) I will add the following points to what I consider to be the characteristically perceptive and accurate comments Charles stated above: 1) I would expect the Daedalus models and many of the Devore models to be considerably more versatile with respect to amplifier selection than the medium efficiency models you mentioned, and with respect to most others in the medium (or low) efficiency category. While the Daedalus and Devore speakers will certainly be revealing of the amplifier’s intrinsic sonic character, their benign impedance characteristics and relatively high efficiency will eliminate sonic issues that can result with many amp/speaker combinations due to impedance interactions, and will make it easy for most amplifiers to perform at their best. 2)The higher efficiency of the Daedalus models and most of the Devore models, relative to the kinds of alternatives you mentioned, means that a higher percentage of your amplifier dollars can go towards quality rather than watts. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
Hello Melbguy1,
I've heard the Magico in a audio dealer showroom and CES x4, RMAF x1 and Axpona. I've listened to the Q 3, Q 5 and the Q7 as well as the S1, S3 and S5. The S5 driven by the Absolare Passion Signature amplifier was the best sounding Magico demonstration I've heard. I didn't care for the Q models driven by the Soulution amplifiers. In fact the Q range was better when paired with the Constellation amplifiers.
I don't doubt what you say and I'll concede that you have more intimate experience with Magico than I. I can only report on what I've actually heard. I feel the Q series is more analytical in character than their S series. No question that electronics, cabling and acoustic room treatment can certainly impact the end result to some extent.
Charles |
@charles1dad , Magico speakers can be tamed by choosing smooth, organic sounding amps & cables such as Vitus Signature series & Jorma Design. Some tube amps like Absolare and Vac IQ series also sound glorious. That’s the thing, those speakers demand the best accompanying gear.
|
Jazzdoc,
You summed up very well the essential difference between the Devore and Daedalus. Both are very good and of course a matter of taste. I find Daedalus generally a bit more authoritative and dynamic in character. System synergy is always a factor. Daedalus compared to a Wilson or Magico? Purely a preference call as one would expect. Daedalus Ulysses (I'm more familiar with this model) has a natural sound/organic character. Magico based on the several models I've heard are IMO analytical. Many would say they're simply accurate, neutral and very resolved. We all have some degree of bias. I consistently prefer natural to an ultra resolved type of presentation. Undoubtedly YMMV.
Charles |
Thank you, jazdoc and pdreher!
How would you describe the sonic differences betwen Daedalus/Devore and the traditional box speakers?
|
I owned the Daedalus Ulysses a few years back. It was a nice speaker with exceptional hardwood cabinets. Initially I found them to be very flat and dull sounding, but after running them through a rigorous break-in at high volume they finally opened up. The Ulysses were my 2nd favorite speaker next to my Harbeth M-40.1's.
|
jjue -
My speaker decision came down to DeVore and Daedalus. Unfortunately, I was unable to procure Silverback's to audition in my system and chose the Daedalus. I have been very happy with my decision. Both speakers are excellent; there is no bad decision here. IME, the DeVore's are ever so slightly more polite. I would be satisfied owning either. Both proprietors are first class. |
Thank you tpreaves! I did check out the Daedalus circle. Like you said, a lot of information there. But the discussions always seemed to be around Daedalus and Devore or SET amp matching. I didn't see any posts that compare Devore or Daedalus with the 'traditional' design speakers like Wilson, Focal, Sonus Faber..., etc. Very interested in knowing if anybody has experience on both sides can share their experience.
|
Jump on over to AudioCircle.com. Daedalus has a circle there, lots of stuff being discussed. |
