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DAC That Punches Above Its Price Point

I’ll make it short. I’ve spent some hours reading the DAC threads on this forum. I am aware quality of digital matters as superior DACs usually the costlier ones will sound better than cheap DACs, making music sound more analog, lifelike, real, believable with all the soundstage and detail etc. All the good things. There are some who thought it’s the music that matters, and although different DACs may sound different it’s the music that makes the most difference. In other words, the differences that exist between DACs are not that important as it's all about the music. I can see the point that people are trying to make.

Back to the topic. I’ve read great things on the Denafrips Ares II and Pontus II, and other costlier high-end DACs. I’ve read about the Chord DAVE. I personally own a Chord QBD76 and have no urge to replace it with anything else since it sounds splendid in my system, for the money. I may be setting up another system and was wondering if there is a DAC in the lower price bracket that punches way above its price point, sounding close to if not better than the costlier designs.

I presume the Audioquest Black, Red or Cobalt are not worthy of consideration and sound noticeably inferior to the costlier options? FWIW I tried the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC and this one really sounded poor to my ears. Very digital sound and I stopped listening to it after a while. The Chord sounds a lot more analog, lifelike and real to my ears.

I would appreciate any advice. Thanks.


ryder

Showing 8 responses by westcoastaudiophile

westcoastaudiophile
467 posts
 
"measurements …. mean zero”

...being analog circuitry design engineer, I disagree with such attitude. if performance of audio devices cannot be measured, it cannot be designed to perform, or to be improved/manufactured as well. Good “Ole” days, “fair” sound check was done a “blind way”, where "sensitive ears and minds" didn’t know what exact device was used to produce the sound.  

I would love to hear “blind listening” comments on this topic.
westcoastaudiophile
467 posts
 
@lemonhase: 
"if you are measuring the right things” agreed 100%, tests should be aligned with real sound performance metrics. 

"I can swap out a cap of same value in a speaker crossover”
-capacitor has many electrical characteristics beyond capacitance and max voltage values, to name a few - ESR (equivalent series resistance), inductance, resonance frequency etc. In general, two identical capacitors, matched by all characteristics, will perform the same in speaker with crossover. Some type of capacitors, oil capacitors (I am using those in my speakers) for example, have less resonances, thus produce less distortions, or “coloration” in other words.

"Also explain how two different amps that measure exactly the same can sound quite different”
-power amplifiers mostly measured using ideal, Re-Z, loads (e.g. 4/6/8 Ohms). Real speakers with cables, crossovers, drivers, and finally resonating cabinets, never match any of ideal loads, and have complex frequency/power-level dependent impedance. 

westcoastaudiophile
467 posts
 
@herman I was responding to “measurements mean zero” attitude, not specific posts. Please point me to any of sound components “certified” by audition at the end of “measurements based” production line.
westcoastaudiophile
467 posts
 
herman, I agree with you on as not all measurements, performed on not always perfect testers are telling us whole story. Measurement equipment has many issues by itself, such as temperature drifts, noise floor, sampling accuracy issues, internal reference clock drifts, calibration, user’s training, and more.
I worked in recording studio on mixing some tracks in the past, and initially I was really surprised how coffee break can change the sound perfection! At some point in the studio we used simple radio to hear the sound, to make sure it sounds right to everyone. Therefore I am very pessimistic on relying on listeners type of sound quality tests.
I would love again to hear “blind test” stories, with more than two people participating in component brand A/B/C/D grading sound “quality” without knowledge of unit under test.
My point is very simple: excellent sound component manufacturers know how to test all components, including parts used in product’s assembly, and final product test, in production flow to ensure every unit “meets the spec”, and therefore they have in place all needed test procedures, equipped with accurate test equipment and provide training for staff.
westcoastaudiophile
467 posts
 
herman, for many ppl here understanding “simple” critical for sound quality path capacitor and it’s electrical model behavior, including nonlinearities, frequency dependencies, aging, dielectric loss, etc., is beyond range.
pl ping me privately if you want to discuss sound engineering problem' specifics 
westcoastaudiophile
467 posts
 
"Take 3 very different caps, paper-in-oil cap, teflon film and a bipolar electrolytic of same value and the plots will be exactly the same, meaning... they measure the same”
not really, better capacitors always show better measurement results, if measured with usage conditions assumptions.

westcoastaudiophile
467 posts
 
herman, I agree on final sound check of any audio component in sound system, to make sure if no hum noise, microphonic effect (rubber hammer tap test), etc. 
the problem is in using “listener" as sound quality assessment, because all humans are not reliable in terms of repeatable sound grading, if they can’t see which unit is put under test. using human ears and brain is the biggest variable in ranking sound, because “listening” is biased by reviews, optical appearance, friend’s opinion, etc. just ask someone to connect different units, presumably with matched signal level etc., and listen the sound without knowing what is playing. repeat the same after cup of coffee, taking break etc. 
westcoastaudiophile
467 posts
 

Best for the money headphones I think / have are Sony MDR-Z7, 1st generation. Lates MDR-Z7M2 are not so good, probably because marketing team recognized as MDR-Z7 almost indistinguishable from pricey MDR-Z1R, and asked Sony design team to “improve” cheaper ones :-). 

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