DAC shopping - Trying to sift through the Hype. Can I trust the reviews these days ??


Hi All,

Well I've been reading a ton of threads about DACs. This is a very complicated endeavor, trying to find a new DAC. My 1st question is: Can I trust all the Youtube reviews these days ?

Seems like everyone is promoting the same DACs. I'm looking into a R2R Dac. Tons of hype for Holo May,Cyan,Laiv Harmony,Denafrips. Are these truly great Dacs or are they just the flavour of the month ?. There is almost zero negativity towards these Dacs. It's kind of like when the Eversolo streamers came out. Seemed like every reviewer was pushing the Eversolo. So searching for a new DAC online almost seems like sponsored ADs everywhere, am I wrong in feeling this way ?

That all being said here is my criteria for a new DAC (Probably searching the used market to get best value)

I believe I want to go with a R2R Dac, but it's not a dealbreaker.

My budget: $1000-$3000

My system: Bryston 3B Cubed, VTL(tube pre),Bel Canto 3.7 Dac(with upgrades), Antipodes Ds-3(player/server).

I really enjoy my Bel Canto 3.7, but it doesn't have USB input and I'm curious how much better a DAC sounds in 2024, compared to an older Bel Canto,. My BC has an upgraded linear supply. Once again this DAC sounds beautiful, but when its not compared to anything......Maybe I'm depriving myself of a better DAC. This is the only DAC I've had with existing equipment.

I know plenty of you will say go audition as many DACs as you can, but that is difficult unless it's hooked up to my gear. Won't help going to a store with a DAC being hooked up to different gear.Plus I want to buy used. I can buy higher end with a bit of a discount.

 

From my research these are the DACs I'm thinking of pursuing:

Laiv Harmony

Denafrips Pontas ii

Holo Cyan

 

You can tell from my choices that I've been buying into the hype.

Please add to my list of DACs and please dispel any extra hype over the most talked about models.

Cheers.

128x128bunkertoy

@bunkertoy

I'm with some of the others on this topic. I've been down the "Dac of the month" club and have heard a lot of them in my setup. Depending on your system house sound you gotta match what is needed or not needed for that matter. I'll give my 3 opinions below of the different styles or flavors of Dac's I went through and then you can get an idea of what may work with your sound and what you are looking to-get out of it.

1. I'll start with R2R Dacs- I've tried many, from the Holo Spring 3 KTE, Terminator Plus, Aries II, Pontus etc etc - All sounded very similar and some slight differences as well, but you could tell they had the same signature to them. I found them all to be very organic, in depth, warmish sound or maybe just a tad rolled at the top or maybe they are slow at the top I would say. Now onto setup, first off, I have a huge room 36x18 and lots of warm feel with tube equipment with Andra II speakers & Nautilus 801. If you prefer and much warmer feel, smaller cozy venue and not the big grand concert hall with lots of air around the room then R2R is your thing. Now if your system is already big and bright with lots of echo and hard surfaces that needs a little taming, again R2R might be what you’re looking for.

2. This is the category that I tested the most, chip based dacs delta sigma mainly ESS Sabre but had a couple of others. These matter the most with implementation and the analog output section. These dacs all had a similar house sound as well but also with some small differences as well. The proper ESS Sabre dac with a proper analog section will absolutely blow your mind but not many manufactures get it right I feel like. I've heard a few choice higher end ESS dacs get it right for sure. When they don't get it right, it can run you out of the room with a headache for sure. Now, there are what we call bright, open, big sounding chips such as ESS Sabre, warm fuzzy cool to touch chips such as Wolfson, AKM, Burr Brown. I had best luck with ESS Sabre such as LKS-DA004/005, Gustard bits, T&A Dac 8 with T&A Dac 8 and D005 being the best in this range of delta sigma. A quick note about AKM chips, to my ears this chip sounds as if ESS and R2R dacs had a baby together and out came the AKM sound. Again, just what I heard in my setup/room/ears.

3. Now this is where I think the future is, Streaming Dacs. I know I'll probably get chastised for this one...LOL I feel like the best all-around sound that could be slightly tailboard was this category and the most flexible. Once I left the USB dac scene I never looked back. You can get a wonderful sounding streaming dac with a chip or FPGA and with software upgrades or firmware changes you can slightly change the sound and get some fun cool software to play with such as Lumin, Cary, Aurender or Roon etc. I would without a doubt tell you to start here and leave the USB behind or even i2S behind. You can get some badass Ethernet cables for wayyyy cheaper than USB/i2s stuff and yeah if your system is good enough you can hear difference in these cables as well, but that's another topic. I would suggest these dacs to try or add to your short list not in any order. You should consider these based on good sound, options, and build quality with support. Lumin, Cary DMS line, Aurender, PS Audio DS MK1. I feel that this is the future of Dacs and USB/i2s will get left behind for some of us but not all.

At your price range, do yourself a favor and consider a streaming dac, maybe the PS Audio DS MK1 with bridge II is the start since it has like 10-12 different firmware's and each sound is a little different. with lots of input options and can be modded a little bit. Maybe even a Lumin D2, D3, T2 all sound fantastic but limited inputs. I currently have the Cary DMS-600 which sounds like some of these others mentioned all had a baby together...LOL I do plan however to go back to a Lumin but that is only because of the synergy with my setup and what I prefer in sound to my ears. Sorry for the long-winded post but this is only my .2 cents.

YMWV

From my experience the biggest difference that separates less expensive dacs and oreamps (<$2k) from more expensive dacs is the quality of the power supplies. A inexpensive way to hear that is to buy a VeraFi Audio Snubway and perhaps a Mainstream, and if you don’t have a quality power conditioner then get the Ace Power Package before agonizing over other dacs

HTH

@sqitis Thanks for extensive description. I still think a separate streamer/Server is best for noise. I'm hoping to go up the food chain with Antipodes. Once again I really enjoy the Squeezelite eco-system. I'm currently searching out a Antipodes CX to be my server.

@rikkipuu On USB being noisey... I wonder then why all the high-end Streamers/Servers have only USB outputs. I've spoken to Antipodes and they indicate I will get better sound using the USB output or the Spdif output. I purchased a Bel Canto Ref Link to take the USB signal and convert it to Spdif. I like that it matches my current Bel Canto 3.7.

@tweak1 I agree about separate power supplies. my upgrade on my Bel Canto was a l linear Power supply.

Picking a new DAC will not be a spur of the moment decision. So many opinions & choices.

The more money I save, the better results I'll get from my DAC. DACs seem to take a jump moving into the strong brands, such as: T+A, Weiss, DCS, Lampizator etc...

In a similar spot to you...wanting to make a significant jump.  Aqua and T+A are my current front runners.  I'll be curious to hear what you end up getting an how you end up liking it.