DAC diminishing returns

+1 for Alvin Chee at Vinshine Audio, excellent customer service and communication, absolutely no concerns with purchasing from him.

IMHO there are likely 10 other things in your system that need far more attention. I have heard DACs with intentional sound differences using tubes, and I have heard DACs that allow you to change the filter settings that causes an apparently audible difference which you may or may not like. 

Changing filter settings can definitely be noticeable. I believe it is done through phase shifting but I could be wrong. But yes, it is technically a "HiFi effect" or coloration. 

I also agree that it can be very difficult to tell differences between very well measured Delta Sigma DACs. Good luck finding audible differences between a Benchmark DAC3 and Topping D90SE. 

Some people say that DACs are a solved problem. This is true only if you believe the goal is faithful reproduction of the original signal. Personally, that is not my goal and that is why I am a member of Club R2R ;-) 

I have only listened to a variety of DACs below $1k. I couldn’t tell the difference.  That is why I asked the question, are there diminishing returns.  I want to buy a better DAC, but as you go up in cost is improvement worth it, or are they only marginally better, or not better at all.  After this very thoughtful discussion, I thank everyone.

I am coming down on the side of R-2-R.  

OP,

Most of us have started out a bit wary of “big buck” audiophile stuff. Most of us then had a world changing purchase. For me, my first audiophile component was a tape deck. I had purchased this highly reviewed “amazing” Onkyo (midfi) deck. ok, yawn, it was fine. Then I had some trouble with it. I went to a high end store and saw a 7 year old first generation 35 pound Nakamichi tape deck. I took it home to try. OMG… I Remember having chills go up and down my back.. goose bumps on my arms. I had absolutely no idea that something like that was remotely possible. It put the performance of the Onkyoin the category of transistor radio. But playing around in the shallow end addind a couple hundred bucks will not do it. This where dealers can help… take an audiophile unit home.

That was the beginning of one of the most rewarding pursuits of my life. You spend some ungodly amount of money on a 30 - 45 pound incredibly well constructed piece of audiophile equipment and the performance is phenomenal and you don’t look to upgrade it for a decade or two. BTW, I don’t think one of my components weighs less than 35 pounds… isolation from vibration, noise… quality components and lots of engineering.

Dsfreeh,

I wondered the same when looking for a DAC for my system, and in my research, I had decided to go with an FPGA or R2R Dac instead of a DAC chip based model.....would a $1,000ish DAC like the Denafrips Aries II R2R at $820 be sufficient, or should I move up the ladder to the likes of the Chord Qutest FPGA $2,000ish, Denafrips Pontus II R2R at $1,750, or HoloAudio Spring 3 Level 2 at $2,400 be worth it.

In MY system, the Denafrips Pontus II R2R DAC sounded best....though I can also say that the Chord Qutest and HoloAudio Spring 3 are both phenominal DACs......just not in my system.