dac and streamer or seperates

May I ask how you listen to music and what type of music you listen to? What are the important criterion?  Since your room is well treated, i expect you pay attention to those details. 

An audition of the variations you’re considering will inform better than any of us can. That said, since you asked, I will offer that my experience brought me to the conclusion that  the streamer is more important than the DAC. I’ve listened to a fair number of DACs well above the price point you’re considering. They’re different of course. But the better streamers opened up the music with a given DAC more than a better DAC did with a modest streamer. My experience only - YMMV so an audition is a must. 

Complicating things is that most DACs have certain inputs that are better than others and may be revealing of the cables used to connect them. So, you’ll want to pay attention to those details too.  In any case - let us know of your progress. 

Best,

@asmithkash 

If you’re looking for a wide/deep soundstage, then I do think you’ll be rewarded by investing in a streamer at least comparable to your DAC - and perhaps a better one. Again - my experience only but more spatial information is what a better source brought my DACs. All DACs are at least partially limited/constrained by their source - even the most expensive ones. 

Lots of good suggestions here as to what equipment to try so I won’t add to the list. But, I will reiterate that an audition is a must and be sure you audition with cables (analog interconnects from your DAC to preamp and digital cables from your source to DAC) in your budget as they can make a significant difference too. I wouldn’t have believed digital cables were that important if I hadn’t heard it directly. Some digital connections (i.e. spdif vs USB) are more sensitive to this than others.

The general consensus is that Qobuz sounds better than Tidal. That certainly is my experience and a free trial will give you direct experience. With respect to catalogs, there is a huge amount of overlap in the titles they offer though my impression is that Tidal might be a bit deeper in pop and R&B. I personally listen more to classical, jazz, folk and indie so I may be incorrect as to catalog depth today. 

Lastly, I would suggest that Roon is excellent (unequaled) for exploring new music and artists. But, for many of us, it doesn’t sound as good as the music library software native to many of the streamers you’ll be looking at. Some disagree with this, but I’m not sure if those skeptics have actually done the comparisons that many of us have. And I’m sure it’s at least somewhat equipment dependent. On my gear, Roon operated beautifully, but sounded flat in comparison. Since the native library management was still quite good, I was comfortable dropping my subscription to Roon. 

We look forward to updates as you go.

Best,

@russbutton 

Cool system.  Are your speakers DIY? If so, nice woodworking!

You hold a viewpoint that “bits are bits”. I’m curious if you’ve actually auditioned any dedicated streamer. Is your opinion based on belief or direct experience?

If the latter, I can respect that though I would then suggest there are other facets at play. For instance, some streamers are clearly built to be convenient. They are a simple PC packaged without the attention to detail toward sound quality, but are inexpensive. If you auditioned one of these and concluded no difference, I wouldn’t be surprised. 

Of course, you do raise some good points. A PC makes a very functional source and music library. And, many of us (me included) spend large sums of money improving (chasing our tails?) our system. It’s a hobby and I hope that all who do follow this path are able to easily afford it. 

But I will stand by prior comments in this thread. While a good DAC is important, so is a good source. The improvements made by a good streamer vs. a PC were as striking (or more so) to my system than my DAC upgrades. And, very easy to hear. 

Clearly to many of us, bits are not just bits. And it’s not related to our wallets. I don’t toss money away for fun. I’ve personally evaluated and passed on a lot of $$$ gear (including DACs >$25k) that I could afford but which didn’t bring the improvement expected. 

So, if your viewpoint is based on experience - that’s great. However, if it’s based on the understanding that you just need to get the data there uncorrupted, that is a viewpoint not supported by the direct experience of others. Or, even the science of data transmission. Digital data travels in analog wave form. EMF and other noise is carried along for the ride.

Best,

@russbutton 

not what I’m saying at all. Yes, digital data is represented as 1s and 0s. But, it is transmitted as a voltage across a wire just like any other signal with a rise and fall to that signal that is interpreted as a 1 and a 0 when it reaches a certain value. You probably know that you can transmit digital data across an A/C circuit. The data is in there. With a whole lot of other signal.

I completely agree that the digital data received from a PC vs a streamer (a type of PC optimized for audio quality) will be identical.  What I don’t agree with is that those two data streams must sound identical after being processed by a quality DAC. Direct experience tells us otherwise. 

If you’re an audio fan pursuing better audio quality- which I presume most of the people who post here are doing, I’m just suggesting you  challenge your belief and experiment.

Of course, it’s fair to point out not all systems will benefit. Certainly not all DACs will benefit. But, some do to great affect. I once held your view. But I tried something different and was pleasantly surprised. 

@russbutton 

I’m not familiar with the D&D unit you’re referring to. But, it does seem like such a unit attempts to be a one box solution that cuts out the variables. The only thing I think you’re missing is that each component can be optimized for audio quality and there are necessary limitations to any one box solution whether that be in design topology, quality of parts, power supply(ies) and isolation. But, $14k all in is an attractive price point relative to what I have invested in my digital system.

If I read correctly, you’re still understandably skeptical of the source’s value in the equation and that because of your location, are unlikely to experience worthwhile alternatives. To that I say you’re fortunate as you won’t fall down the proverbial rabbit hole.

You’ve obviously spent more effort and $ on your vinyl rig than on your digital system - which I get. I used to have a vinyl rig and miss it at times. But it doesn’t take a lot of money to make notable improvements in even modest digital rigs.

As I experimented, I began to hear, and understand the benefit of optimizing all the disparate digital gear in my system. It is more than just 1s and 0s. As already discussed - files are being transferred bit perfect. But, the noise that’s carried along the same wire along with the slope of the voltage changes which the DAC reads as a 1 or 0 are critically important components and are plainly audible in direct comparison. The human ear can detect mere femto seconds of jitter. It is very well documented (in listening tests and actual measurements) the impact of incorrect impedance of a digital cable and the length of the cable.

The OP started this thread wondering about the merits of separate components and it has been a good discussion and one I hope helpful to you - a skeptic.  Being a skeptic is to be encouraged in audio as there are plenty of ways to separate people from their money. But, please keep an open mind and seek direct experience to weigh against the theoretical.

Best,