It appears that most of us here agree the ultimate quest is sound quality. Which ever technology approach that gets you there, so be it.If someone truly believes a particular class D amplifier is equal or surpasses the sound quality of a tube amplifier with NFB absent then case closed, you've found the right amp for your needs. I've yet to experience this result and find the class D examples I've heard so far inferior in realism and natural sound.So newer technology withstanding, some older ideas and designs simply stand the test of time and at least to some listeners are the superior choice for sound quality. So it's good we rely on our ears regardless of what measurements and new technology may promise in theory. The audio marketplace caters to all the various preferences we have, choice is good. |
Bifwynne,
I have zero interest in any speaker war scenario, we all have our individual taste and there`s no point in taking that any further. I thought Bombaywalla`s opinion on speaker design-engineering choice/compromise was worthwhile and logical.
Regards, |
Al,
As always I appreciate your patient and clear explanations. What you eloquently describe is born out with simply listening. Either tube or SS amplifiers will be the best choice depending on the particular driven speaker's design characteristics. Just listen. There's no universal one fits all amplifier design that exists. It all begins with the intentions of the speaker designer.
Best Regards, |
Why are there speakers designed with widely fluctuating impedances and steep phase angles in the first place? Why is there not more of an effort to build speakers with flatter impedance curves and gentler phase angles? Is the availablility of many high power solid state amplifiers to compensate for this their bail out safety net? Is there the belief these types of speakers sound better than those with easier load characteristics?
Regards, |
Bombaywalla,
I appreciate your perspective and input.It does seem the existence of high power SS amps can allow certain speaker faults to be some what masked by applying brute force as a remedy.
Regards, |
This thread is very educational and thought provoking and comments here are well informed. It really asks the obvious question, why on earth do we have such a high number of these roller coaster impedance speakers? What is their upside. Does it truly demand that much more high level engineering expertise to build flatter impedance speakers with better phase angles? If that's the case then those who are capable of doing this deserve more respect and recognition for their achievement. It's a superior speaker when it allows the buyer more flexibility with amplifier selection. |
Bifwynne,
Good post.Why should the burden be on amplifier designers to build larger,more complex and expensive models in order to manage these inefficient and difficult to drive speakers?That`s putting the cart before the horse.
Bombaywalla`s point is quite sound, why not better design/engineering from the speaker manufacturers to avoid these problems? |
Attempting to make tube amps more compatible to drive certain speakers could potentially result in a loss of their instrinsic "sonic attributes". |
The problem with powered speakers is it eliminates any possible flexibility of choice.The asuumption that the builder will have selected the 'best' amp-speaker match is well,an assumption. If your hearing/listening bias differs from the builder you won`t be satisfied with this 'fixed pairing' and won`t be able to tailor to your preferences.This powered speaker could measure superbly on paper yet the possibility exists you may not care for the sound regardless. |
Al,
Israel Blume is one of the very few.
MBL,Gryphon and Tidal for example build power amps and speakers.The problem, some like their speakers but not necessarily the amplifiers to match them.Again, the reality of being limited to a particular voicing chosen by the builder.Al you list many other good reasons against the universal practically of powered speakers.
Regards, |
Unsound,
I believe the marketplace is a strong case for what's convenient and expedient but not for superior sound quality as the objective. I realize you and I are at different ends of the spectrum, but the introduction of low impedance speakers wasn't a direction chosen for improved music reproduction .These sre probably the easier design vs high impedance speakers Al and Ralph do make a more compelling argument in my opinion. I do appreciate your comments and contributions to the dialog here.Variety is the spice of life afterall.
Regards, |
Deadlyvi,
My post was a general observation based on my own listening opportunities. I thought my last sentence made it clear where I'm coming from.What I prefer has nothing to do with your own specific listening experiences and conclusions. Some hear similar to me and others don't . We're all here just expressing our individual opinions. What ever amplifier topology suits you is fine with me. I just know what sounds better to me.
Regards, |
Deadlvj,
I agree and wish other builders/designers would express their beliefs and ideas.This can lead to very informative discussions and of course different views and conclusions. There's no rule that demands we all have to agree on everything. Varying perspectives are good and reflects our individual experiences.
Regards, |
