Thanks James. I listened to the Minis a cple of times and really liked them but concerned my Darts will not be enuff for them...and don't want to chg my amps again. A fellow goner did say he has such a set up (Dart-Mini) and said the match was very good, so a bit confused actually. Over here, they don;t allow home auditions so I wld have to drag my amp to the dealership...yuk. The Minis at the dealership were driven by Spectral and Audio Rsch 210s, the latter sounding particularly good w/ the Minis.
Cost no Object but Small Room
What speakers would you recommend without consideration of value (well forget the US$100 thou plus monsters!) for smallish room?
I am moving places and it looks my dedicated 2 channel system will have to go the study. Room size is only 11 ft x 17ft, barely. However all there is the room is basically the system and a desk/chair.
I listen to all kinds of music but mostly jazz (including fusion), rock, pop, blues.
I am moving places and it looks my dedicated 2 channel system will have to go the study. Room size is only 11 ft x 17ft, barely. However all there is the room is basically the system and a desk/chair.
I listen to all kinds of music but mostly jazz (including fusion), rock, pop, blues.
82 responses Add your response
Henry, that's interesting you heard them with ARC gear. Do you remember the configuration of the system? Was it all ARC? I was curious about the CJ line as well, they make high powered monoblocks recently reviewed in HiFi+. I wonder what a pair of the 270 watt monoblocks would be like? I wonder how much heat those amps put out? As for the Metronome cdp, I don't recall the exact model number, I just went to the website to check to see if I would recognize it, but wow, Metronome has expanded quite a bit since I last saw them. It was a larger 1 chassis unit I think...on the Signature line. But yes, it did not draw attention to itself at all which is complementary to itself in that system. Very resolute and coherent, and at the same time musical. I prefer tubes however, so the over all sound was a bit thin for my taste, which is purely personal. Henry, what were your thought listening to the ARC gear vs the Dart? |
James: That was probably the "entry level" Metronome CD3-Signature - same model Steve Hoffman uses and says it's the best 1-box player he has ever heard. Thanks for your nice compliment. Not familar with the solid state amp/preamp but you're right - the CD3 is accurate & musical. You would be knocked out by the Kalista transport & C2A tube DAC. More Met info at http://www.tmhaudio.com/Metronome.htm Jim Ricketts/tmh audio |
Jim: I remember starting out down the path of a serious CD player, Metronome was always at the top of my short list, but at the time, no one in my area even heard of it. I have to remained focused here, speakers in small rooms is what I'm really curious about. Although, I'm sure I'll have to go back to hear the Kallista rig some time...:) Henry: Have you thought about making or having a speaker built for you upon specifications? I'm toying around with an idea of having a Jensen Onken cabinet built, where I could try several 15 to 16" coaxials a try. A vintage approach you might call it. |
Finally moved now. Still in unpacking mode and haven't even set up my 2 channel system in the study yet...too many boxes to clear! However I can already see without even listening that my current Kharma 2.3Fs are too large in physical size. So the search should soon begin. Here are the ones I have so far identified that I am considering after some research. Things to consider are footprint size (but height less of an issue), somewhat but not complete nearfield situation, needs to be driven by my Darts, even if not large should not be designed so that must be needs to be placed far away from backwall (like the Parsfails), etc. Wilson Duette: didn;t like Wattpuppy 7s when driven Spectral but perhaps different given different tweeter: the fact they are designed so that placing near the back wall is fine is interesting to me Sonus Faber Guaneri Homage Magic Mini 2 (about as big as it can get in terms front to back 18 inches): Can the Darts drive these? I do notice fellow goner Wslam has this set up and I don;t listen at ear splitting levels.. Eben X-3: never heard them myself Kharma Mini Exquisite Avalon Indra (perhaps too big) The Gallo towers (are these in commercial production yet?) Among these I have auditioned briefly at dealerships, Magico Mini 2, Sonus Faber Guaneri, Kharma Mini, though need to revisit them all again. Any comments? |
hi henryhk, my Mini II just got passed the 200hours mark. Given we are both in HK, I understand the room size issues very well. I am also moving, but won't be moving for another 8 months. My future room should be bigger and will be dedicated. Initially I thought the Mini I may not be able to fill the room. But I am *sure* the Mini II can. The Mini II are significantly better. See the link: http://forums.avguide.com/viewtopic.php?p=7055#7055 feel free to email me. |
Hi Henry, I am biased as I manufacture speakers and electronics but I can still offer you good advice! Here are a few general points. (1) Near field listening in smaller rooms requires a very coherent sound reproduction. Usually two way will be better than three way, less drivers rather than more. (2) A full "ranger" used with one or two subs with an active crossover relieves the full range driver of all the X-max consumming hard work. Forget any speaker system where you add on a subwoofer and leave the "main speaker" still working hard in the bass. (3) Room correction has a more noticable benefit in smaller rooms and can integrate subs very effectivly. (4) If you can pull the speakers out from the wall by about 3 feet Open Baffle has a big advantage over box designs in small rooms as OB only generate 50% as much "un-wanted " energy as box designs. You still get all the direct radiated sound and slam and dynamics, but the neighbours dont hear it! (5) Some amazing results can be obtained with DIY designs if you have access to skilled craftsmen to do the assembly and finishing work. This is more a custom design project but if you plan to stay in the house a while you can justify some serious brickwork! (6)Is it only your decision or are other family members having a say? (7) What type of music and what volumes do you generally like? (8)What is the construction of the room. (9)Mains power ; I can recomend a dedicated distribution box (6 or 8 way) with seperate magnetic circuit breakers for each line. This allows you to run a heavy duty (ideally made up of multiple 1mm guage each in seperate teflon dielectric) solid core silver power cord from the power meter box as it enters your home directly to your listening room. The box should have heavy duty brass buss bar clamps that bolt down onto the ends of your equipment power cords and this eliminates the whole mains plug / wall socket interface. Try this before investing in big buck power conditioners. Good luck and check out overkillaudio.com for a few more ideas! All the best Derek Wilson Overkill Audio. |
I have a small room too and recently contacted John DeVore at DeVore Fidelity about his line of speakers, particularly the Silverbacks. He claims that they would work well in rooms about the size of yours. Don't know if you have any dealers in HK, but lots of folks rave about these speakers and I hope to check them out in the not too distant future. |
Omnis, dipoles, bipoles, and polydirectional speakers work best when they can be set up such that the onset of side-wall and rear-wall reflections reaches the listener's ears at least 10 milliseconds after the first-arrival sound. The 10 milliseconds isn't a hard-and-fast rule, but a fuzzy rule-of-thumb based on psychoacoustics. Actually this applies to all speakers, but is more likely to be a concern with omnis, dipoles, bipoles, and polys. The 10 milliseconds corresponds to a path length of about 11 feet, so in other words you'd want the early reflection paths to be at least 11 feet longer than the direct path from the drivers to your ears (including the reflection off the wall behind the listener, if possible). This is usually not practical in a small room. In my opinion a small room calls for speakers with a well-controlled radiation pattern and/or smooth power response, as inevitably the bulk of the reverberant energy will arrive earlier than in a larger room. Too much of a spectral discrepancy between direct and reverberant energy can give rise to listening fatigue in any room, but especially in a small one. I'm presently working on a design intended to perform well in a small room, but I'm shooting for a much lower price point. Nevertheless, the above principles of acoustics and psychoacoustics are applicable even to speakers with exotic drivers. Duke dealer/manufacturer |
Here's another way to go. Get a dedicated headphone amp,and the best earphones and you will have sound that's better than any speaker you can put in that room. Check out Headroom.com for great advice. If you want music without headphones, almost any speaker will do, but your serious listen will be with your headphones. If you never heard top notch earphone sound, you should give it a listen. You will be mighty impressed. |
Thanks to all. Forgot to mention I listen to a wide variety, rock, all jazz including fusion, blues, and bit of classical. Volume wise, quiet but enuff to fill the room, to loud but never ear splitting, rock concert levels. Wslam: thans for the offer and will definitely will follow up w/ u. OverKill: thanks for taking the time... 1. re cross overs, digital cross over if I am not mistaken takes place only in the PCM domain? If DSD, doesn't it lead to conversion to first PCM? If so, then I am a bit hesitant as my front end converts the other way and going back & forth is something to avoid. 2. Cant pull out by 3 m unfortunatelyas if I did then distance to the listening postion would be about 5.5 feet.. 3. DIY: I can see that, but not for me. Audiokinesis: agree, that was what i feared and found logical, ...thus Mbls are probably out. Do have headphone amp/USB DAC benchmark connected to my PC, and I use it when its very late at nght and I do not want to disturb others, via AKG 701s. By the way, a small system consisting of the the above sans the PC but instead the MSB modified IPOD which outputs digitally. This is a very portable at least in terms within the house (perhaps a bit too much for travel though) with suprisingly good sound. |
In my opinion a small room calls for speakers with a well-controlled radiation pattern and/or smooth power response, as inevitably the bulk of the reverberant energy will arrive earlier than in a larger room. ATC SCM 20's are quite nice in that sized envornment but so are many other good near fields. The Confidence C1 was another good suggestion. (If you like a dynamic sound) |
We did a room set up at RMAF with a pair of Talon Hawks and a Thunderbird subwoofer. The key was the integration with the Rives sub-PARC. The room received a Positive Feedback Oasis award for great sound. I'm more than a little particular about sound quality and I am usually disappointed with sound at shows, even when I can treat the room, we are still so constrained. This was truly and amazing sound and the room was just a little larger than yours, 13 x 19 roughly. Here's the report from RMAF. |
We have had interest from the previous dealer in Hong Kong. Unfortunately the prior ownership of Talon did not deliver product on a timely fashion to them, thus I believe they may be a bit gun shy and just waiting to see how things go with us. I can't say I blame them given what I discovered about their history with Talon prior to our acquisition. I am hopeful they give us a chance as I think they will value the integrity of Rives Audio behind the company. |
