Could just be due to the RCA/cable combo conveying more audible information than that conveyed by the cable previously used, so if the source contains more "noise" perhaps that noise is now being heard?
Some components respond negatively to some cables.
Sometimes the power cable and Interconnect combination can have an effect on a component.
Sometimes the outlet the component is plugged into can cause an issue and the introduction of a better quality Interconnect merely highlights that issue.
Hard to pinpoint without experiencing the setup and the issue first hand and trying some different alternatives.
Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance |
I think the AV comcast box or the channel's source is poor / slightly out of phase or focus and the KLEI Copper Harmony RCAs just exaggerate that... |
I think the AV comcast box or the channel's source is poor / slightly out of phase or focus and the KLEI Copper Harmony RCAs just exaggerate that... I would say, not exaggerate but allow more of the AV comcast box or the channels poor/slightly out of phase or focus signal through. I have not noticed that the Copper Harmony plugs to exaggerate but they do allow of the signal through... that is, more micro harmonics, stage, PRAT, timbre, decay, etc :) I wonder if a better AC chord will help... highly likely! Do Douglas Connection do power chords? Actually, what has Douglas Connection suggested :) |
OK - if the L/R are "out of focus" - then yes, the RCA's will provide cleaner transmission of fine details, so the new RCA's will exacerbate that condition. You'll hear more of it.
If the AV Comcast Box has an IEC plug you could try a better power cable.
Some boxes have the C7 IEC plug like my DVD player - I bought an adapter that converts C7 to C14 (3 pin)and upgraded the cable using more standard C14 IEC connectors
I always start with the power supply and proceed from there.
If it's "plumbed in" there's not a lot you can do without "surgery"
Switching to a less detailed IC as you had indicated might be the cheapest solution - if you can live with that.
Also - If the Mogami's are anywhere near a power cable or source of interference - like digital components - get some space between them.
Regards... |
I am also going to try to clean my RCA male / female connection points. |
Thanking about it a little more, I would say that the KLEI Copper Harmony plugs, and any RCA plug, cannot deliver more than the Source can output but IME the Copper Harmony plugs allow more of the Source signal output through... that is more micro harmonics, stage, PRAT, timbre, decay, etc, which is the Source's musical reproduction :)
Sbrownnw, have you contacted Douglas Connection... what did they have to say! |
Ok, after some really careful listening, I realized the following:
- I don't know how the KLEI Copper Harmony RCAs are creating such a large (tall and wide) soundstage, but I don't like it. It is either a combination on how the larger soundstage acts in my room (primary and secondary reflections?) or the subdued sound from the all copper RCA connectors (see below), or both.
- I don't think I like copper chassis RCA connectors (or just the KLEI Copper Harmony connectors). They are very clear and resolving but my music and other sources lost their midrange focus and punch.
As a musician for 15 years I've really missed what I had before. I realize how good the Mogami 2549 cable is with 3 different wiring combinations. I picked my Audio Refinement gear for its tube like sound and I think my previous cable configuration really helped with that tube like strong midrange punch and focus. It was not a narrowly focused soundstage, instead, it just sounded right to me.
With this all said, I wonder if there is another RCA connector I should try, or should I just go back to my Neutrik Pro-Fi RCA connectors which get great reviews? I think I am going to stay in the $15 - $20 / pair range and the only other one I see is the Onix 70024 copper chassis gold plated RCA. But does the Onix bring the same subdued lack of midrange punch and focus similar to the KLEI Copper Harmony? Can anyone chime in on this?
TIA! |
Have you discussed this with Douglas Connection. What have they suggested, especially regarding your components?
Perhaps it's an attribute of the Mogami 2549 cable...
Perhaps Williewonka can have help. I believe that he has mentioned in his write-ups that he a musician of alot of years also :)
Sorry, I don't think I can help any further although I can say that I like the Copper Harmony plugs very much, at least on my own DIY ICs :) |
Other questions are ...
How many hours burn-in have the cables had? I know the Copper Harmony plugs require more than a 100 hrs burn-in...
Have you contacted Douglas Connection and what do they Douglas Connection suggest?
Perhaps the Mogami 2549 wire is not that good?
From my experience the KLEI Copper Harmony plugs have a very good and focused mid-range, once run in :) |
@Sbrownnw, I have started this thread, DouglasConn/Mogami 2549 & KLEI Copper Harmony RCAs, on the cable forum, http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1&ctg&3&, and asked for comments :) Perhaps it is best to post some questions there :) Should be interesting to see the comments... |
I have given the new cable set over 200 hours. For some sources with certain media, the cable set sounds great. For other sources with other media, the cable set sounds unacceptable. Overall, I just don't think this cable set is a good match for my system and my media. I have read similar experiences with the fist generation bullet RCAs...
Yes, I did talk to DouglasConnection. He has a great deal of Mogami 2549 experience and always does a continuity check for phase and as a quality check (center pin to center pin and ground to ground). The Mogami wire has very high quality control, as it is used in pro studios plus DIY and other high-end audio equipment manufacturers, so I highly doubt the 2549 is bad. I did switch the cable leads and they all sound like I described in the first paragraph. Doug does not any experience with the KLEI RCAs nor did I and my cable build was the first set. He has wired up many, many different cable configs with exceptional results.
I'm going to sell these at very good prices and go with some Mogami 2549 with either Neutrik Pro-Fi or Furutech 126(g) RCAs. Please PM if anyone is interested in these cables. I'm sure they sound great on other systems, just not mine all the time. I have 2 four foot pairs and 4 three foot pairs with the shielding floated at one end with a directional mark and black cable mesh for each pair for a very professional looking setup. |
Sorry for the many posts but they seem to take a long time to appear on the tread and I can never remember what I have previously posted while waiting for them to appear... Doug does not any experience with the KLEI RCAs nor did I and my cable build was the first set. He has wired up many, many different cable configs with exceptional results. Bit Confused... didn't you buy these from Douglas Connection? Are you the Douglas Connection beta tester (ie sound evaluation process)? All good and have fun :) |
I think this a great cable set. It just doesn't work in my system. |
Sbrownnw - I know you like mogami - and so do many others, but there could be architectural issues that may be causing your problems and the Copper Harmony are just bringing them to light.
Maybe trying the Copper Harmony with a cable specifically designed for interconnect use would be a much better option.
All of the cables I have tried were designed specifically for interconnect use and worked extremely well with the entire Harmony RCA range.
The signal from instruments like electric guitar and Microphones have a much larger dynamic range than the signal in a home audio interconnect and as a consequence - the cables designed to handle these dynamics may have different attributes like Capacitance, inductance and impedance, form those cables specifically designed for home audio use.
So perhaps a cable designed for the higher dynamic range may not be the most ideal cable for home audio inerconnect use.
Based on my excellent findings with several vastly different interconnects designed specifically for home audio use - I think the issue here is probably the Mogami cable - the Copper Harmony is just highlighting the issues that other RCA's seem to be muting.
I hope that makes sense
Regards |
|
Sbrownnw - I took a detailed look at the electrical specs of the Mogami (I should have done that first) and I didn't see a problem with them - very similar to many other good interconnect cables - except the capacitance was 1/3 of other cables I have used, but that's a good thing - high capacitance can be an issue.
A couple of questions...
I am guessing that the end of the cable to which the floating shield is attached to is connected to the "source component" - is that correct?
- if not - give that a try
Do the sources you are dissatisfied with have a three-pin or a two-pin plug?
If they have a two-pin plug, have you tried grounding the chassis of that component?
I have a Pioneer Elite DVD player with a two-pin and it creates a hum if the chassis is not grounded. It also sounds much better with the chassis grounded.
You also mention certain media does not sound good
- can you identify those media and their sources
Thanks... |
Sbrownnw - One other thing to consider might be speaker position.
Perhaps making the speakers slightly wider might assist with the image.
Also, front to back placement might also make a difference.
The KLEI RCA's do make the image wider and deeper
If the image on the recording is too wide or too deep for the current speaker position then it might be the reason for an unfocussed or jumbled image.
FYI: My speakers are around 8.5 feet apart and the image still exceeds that width. The front of my speakers is also around 39 inches from the wall behind them.
I realize you room may not allow this, but it's just another thought.
Regards... |
@Sbrownnw, I have started this thread, DouglasConn/Mogami 2549 & KLEI Copper Harmony RCAs, on the cable forum, http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1&ctg&3&, and asked for comments :)
Perhaps it is best to post some questions there :)
Should be interesting to see the comments... Sorry, but I wasn't allowed to start the thread... all good :) The comments would have been quite interesting though... |
Sbrownnw, Are you sure you wired your interconnects correctly? Make sure they are both wired the same. If one is wired out of phase then you will loose focus. |
^^ There is an easy way to find out. Just reverse speaker leads on one speaker. If your focus comes back then you wired one of your interconnects wrong. |
I am selling the Mogami 2549 / KLEI Copper Harmony cables for $125 each. I have 2 four foot pairs and 4 three foot pairs. Price does not including shipping or PayPal fees. If you get all 6, I will pay shipping (USPS Priority Mail insured - USA only) and PayPal fees. Cables look brand new as they only have 200 hours on them. PM me if you are interested... |
All good and have fun ... that is what music is all about ... enjoyment and relaxation :) |
Wow, what a difference I the last 24 hours. I left all my sources on in my main system on. Now, my system is back to where it used to sound and then some. Guess it took over 300 hours to break my new cables in. Sorry everyone, I'm keeping these, especially at the great purchase price. |
All interesting ... have fun and enjoy the listening :) |
IC/SC Burn-in is very interesting :) I know the Harmony plugs take considerable time (150hrs plus more) to burn-in.
The other thing that is interesting is if you unplug/unconnect the Harmony plugs then replug/reconnect them. It is best to allow at least an hour for them to settle before they will begin to sound at their best... they are a very high fidelity connector :) |
Let us know if there are further improvements to the sound of the ICs :) |
An audio buddy of mine has a 500 hr rule that he applies to all high fidelity capacitors, resistors, chipsets, audio transformers, inductors, etc...
That is that high fidelity components take at least 500 hrs to burn in and he interestingly applies the 500 hr rule to the KLEI Harmony RCA plugs!
After your post/experience, maybe he is correct :) |
@Sbrownnw, what are you liking about what you are hearing now?
Keep us posted of further improvements :) |
These cables are definitely a step up from what I had. I did order a set of Mogami 2549 with Furutech 126g connectors when I thought I would be selling the KLEI terminated Mogami so will be comparing these side by side soon. |
@Sbrownnw, I see Douglas Connection have the KLEI Pure Harmony RCA plugs.
Have you considered trying the Mogami 2549 wire with the KLEI Pure Harmony RCA plugs :) |
Happy New Years everyone.
After having the new Furutech 126g / Mogami 2549 in my system for almost a week now with all sources on, I've decided these are a better fit for my system
I think the KLEI Copper Harmony RCAs with the Mogami 2549 are too refined for my system and would be perfect for the many posts here that ask for a RCA / IC to warm up their system without loss of imaging and soundstage. So, they are for sale. $125 each - I have 4 three foot sets and 2 four foot sets. PM me if you are interested. |
Too refined and all good... have fun :) |
Yes, too refined. Just like when I tried the Tekton mini lores with the latest drivers. Even with custom metal outriggers, the mini lores were too refined. I went back to my punchy midrange Tekton 6.5t monitors. The KLEI Copper Harmony has many good traits, and many people enjoy a really refined sound, but I lost some of the punchy characteristic that I like. It sounds more musical and lifelike to me. |
Sb, - I think I may have observed something similar....
On a couple of Police tracks it did seem as though the bass drum was quieter, until I realized that the image had deepened considerably and the bass drum was now further towards the rear of the image with the rest of the drum kit and as such not as loud as before, but the dynamics were still crisp.
On Eric Clapton's Unplugged album there was always quite a loud thumping of his foot on the stage. But as I moved up through the Harmony line this became much less annoying and is now in the background, but the overall bass performance improved and is now much tighter, so I figure it's now where the engineer intended it to be - it sounds more natural.
So as a result of the effect these RCA's seem to have on the image, I now listen in 3D - by that I mean that whenever I observe a change that seems a little "alien" to what my ears are accustomed too, I focus on the image to determine if the changes I am hearing are due to a change in an instrument's placement within the image.
Regards. |
I'll let my six custom (and nicely built) Mogami 2549 / KLEI Copper Harmony cables go for $600 + shipping and PayPal fees if anyone is interested. These cables do a lot of things right. Unfortunately, they did not match my system / room. |
Very interesting. I think I found the magic combo. We all know that I'm using Mogami 2549 as the cable with the only differences being the interconnects. I kept the Furutech 126(g) combo on all my sources to my preamp. I put the KLEI Copper Harmony combo between my preamp and amp and is so far, a match made. :)
Is all about finding what works and synergy. :) |
Interesting and can be... :) |
