Django pulling the coffin behind himself............. is there a Kelly-machine gun inside ? Come on Thuchan - open Pandora's box and reveal the Nemesis! |
it is a long journey from the other side of the world back to snowy Bavaria. Patience, Patience my dear friends. You already provided me with so many helpful advises and of course moral backing (!!!) on this journey... Thanks
when you open the small box you will see this on top...
http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/5QkGKS1D2VjQSNssgvoy3A?feat=directlink |
Dbcooper, in the outback you are not allowed to talk about value you are carrying behind you. Otherwise the result will be a very final one. Never tell anyone with how many coins you arrived.
But you are right. I had some travel costs. So we had a long night drinking German and Australian Beer and finally the seller agreed paying the bill... |
This is all very cloak and dagger Thuchan.
Did you buy a new Caliburn? Used Caliburn?
Peter |
Looking at the crate, me thinking its a criterion table? |
Maybe a few Penfolds Grange?
David |
my journey comes to an end mirroring the exact time-schedule of the new machine having arrived at my home. It may look cloak and dagger but there is a final result - hope it convinces you.
I learned from friends that you should not open a parcel containing a musical instrument before the room temperature has reached the instruments - so I still have to be patient for a little while, just a little... |
David, hope I find some bottles in the crate. I guess your wine cellar is filled with those... |
Is this about a turntable or What?? |
Thuchan
That was quite a whirl wind tour you went on these last few days.Four continents under your belt and returning with only a wooden crate that is now acclimatising in your home.
With regards to this world class wine I can only thank my loving wife that has civilized me to a degree over the years.
Cheers
David |
unpacking finished!
looks like a turntable!?
http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/ZLgkIbwN-9oQ_lPeao5UGA?feat=directlink
now I go for penfolds grange...
|
Congratulations Eckart, there was little dought what was packed away in this wooden crate.
I just opened a beer, Cheers! and happy listening
David |
Congrats!!!
Now don't get too smitten with it. If upon placing the needle in the groove for the first time and you say that the performer materialized before your very eyes... we may just have to believe you. Just make sure she's beautiful!
My best!
Peter |
Thanks David, Thanks Peter,
at the moment the Copulare stand arrived. this is a very special Grand Porto for a very special table...and very heavy too
http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/MtqGmLiA-4finbpSN2dxKg?feat=directlink
it might take some time to puzzle everything together... but this will be fun |
Indeed, ..... make sure you start with Norah Jones' "Come away with me".......
Just in case Peter is right.
Cheers,
D. |
Thuchan,
The main TT chassis is straight forward in setting up, but you may need to fiddle around with the magnet adjusters for the arm board underneath the main chassis this will change the sound slightly. That arm will you be using.
So what do I win for guessing it was the criterion TT? |
,,,,,So what do I win for guessing it was the criterion TT?,,,,,,,,
Dinner with Norah Joans |
Wow, Eckart!!! Are you going to get some help setting-up the table? Are those Classe Omegas, too??! I'll be in Europe this summer :-)!!
Happy New Year - it is!
Best,
Sam |
Dbcooper, ****dinner with Norah Jones****** - I guess this is one of the very few points were you can reach wide spread agreement with most audiophiles......
Eckart - take it slow and easy.
Weekend is ahead.
Cheers,
D. |
The Criterion manual is one of the best of its kind like the Copperhead manual, the arm I will mount on the Criterion. Redscouser, it seems you have experience with that table. Thanks for the advice. You mean using the four screws and moving the board a little I guess. Does it work like a flywheel? It should have some impact on the platter. Dietrich, you are right, this is a somehow dangerous job - keeping the hands not in the right position when lowering the heavy platter - uuh. As I am sitting in a train right now there is no risk at the moment... |
Mr D ,,,,dinner with Norah Joans and reaching wide spread agreement with most audiophiles,agree tis a highly emotional driven hobby for some, to much maybe
Eckart, we dont need you getting hurt at this stage you have my attention, have fun! |
Norahs a sloppy eater, she eats with her mouth open, I said never again!
|
Dear Thuchan,
I have followed this thread over the last few days and I would like to contribute, if I may, a different view point.
Unless there is more to it than what was shared in this thread, your purchase has all the hallmarks of an impulsive purchase.
None of my impulsive buys over the years led to long-term enjoyment *especially* when I compromised the *dream*.
If you had set your eyes on the Caliburn, the Criterion will not do in the longer run.
I sincerely hope that I am wrong and that you will keep enjoying the Criterion for the years to come. With apologies to everyone if my comment is out of line, but it honestly documents my 25-year long analogue journey.
Kostas |
Kostas,
your comment is a reasonable one; but only if one assumes that Eckart liked the Caliburn lots more than he liked the Criterion.
again we come back to the cost/benefit-value issue.
i've heard the Caliburn and the Criterion 4 times each in different systems. i've spent more total time with the Criterion. but i've never heard them side by side. other than having them both in your own system for an extended comparison, the next best thing would be what Eckart apparently did do, compare them side by side in Oz.
he has not written any detail about his final decision making experience (at least that i have seen). so we may wonder what the tipping point(s) actually ended up being.
my guess is that the Criterion came 'close enough' at approx half the price. if he only liked the Caliburn a little more that would be a decision he is likely very happy about.
there is nothing to prevent him from tradeing up later. at least he knows the difference between them to his ears.
no regrets needed.
i say congrats and let the music flow.... |
Kostas, my decision making started in 2006 at the High End show in Munich. It was more a long time process than a sudden impulse. Nevertheless the thread and the good advices helped me to settle my decision in the end.
I cannot give a judgement right now, I need some time of listening but Mike is on the right track. We have to compare it with a Caliburn some day - maybe in the same system...
I am slowly proceeding. The neodymium tabletts which keep the floating armboard in position is a wonderful invention, especially in the completion of Continuum. I dismounted everything and assembled it again. The difference on impact it has on the sound I will figure out when everything is in place - and then maybe changing the distance between the tabletts from underneath the chassis.
At the moment I have a more stiffer calibration by reducing the distance to the near minimum.
http://picasaweb.google.de/caochan1/Criterion |
Hi Eckart,
Thanks for the pics...it helps me follow the progress!
-Sam |
It´s done! Everything is fine. The Copperhead is a delicate but excellent tonearm. I wouldn`t like to change the cartridge too many times in the Copperhead.
From my experience the weight scales in the manual are not exact.
I have put some pics under my system |
At this price it should be the best!! |
Thuchan,
Don't be afraid to move the Continuum and stand from out of the soundstage. In all its eagerness to please its new owner it may want to sing along with the music or at least annoy the singer on the stage between the speakers :)
Was that Norah Jones?
:)
Peter |
Breuninger,
you are absolutely right. I have to think about a new position for the stand and the caliburn. The current position is sub-optimal. Nevertheless this looks like a luxury problem but I have to reach the transformers and phono stages.
You see it never ends... |
as a first measurement I pulled the loudspeakers some 25 cm into the room - not bad.
BTW - it`s fun moving the Wilsons around... |
This is a problem us multi table users face, in fact a bona bona fide dilemma! What to do...what to do...
One solution is multiple phono stages and transformers. I went this route fearing though the long interconnect runs to the main preamp (currently a Wyetech Opal). This actually worked out well, the Wyetech has four or five line inputs so I can switch tables click-click-click. I did not notice any sonic degradation with the longer runs and the versatility is fantastic.
I stand in front of the system like a conductor with his orchestra and select the different players... Mr. Brier or Mr. Koetsu, or Mr. Mark Levinson, or Mr. van den Hull, or Mr. Carr. It's marvelous. |
Echart,
I took one glance at your new pictures and I have come up with an easy problem solving solution.
No more moving Wilsons, no more juggling phonostages around, basically no more head aches 'err' back aches.
Directly behind the Contimuum there sits a turntable that takes up too much shelf space and is hard to dust.I can arrange for someone to pick it up and get it out of your road.
David |
David, that was a good one.......!
What a nice attempt to help Eckart out of his misery.....
Cheers,
D. |
I recently compared it (Caliburn) to my VPI HRX/ Kuzma 4 Point/ A90 combination and although there were some things that were better, the VPI had a bounce and musicality about it that I just preferred. My friend who has the Caliburn also preferred the way the HRX works with Jazz and 60's Soul.
The TW tables I am not keen on. They may been good'n'all but I can't get with the design. Also, the Raven One AC I had on demo sounded too mechanical and not a patch on the HRX. The Caliburn is beautiful to look at and if I had the funds right now I would buy one on looks alone! |
Breuninger, I have to study this click-click-clock system deeper. Maybe I am saving some sport activities between the units of my system and some more advantages will come up...
David, you are on a good track. This is my first TT I bought when I returned from Japan in 1995. I paid the amount of 5.000 Euro. No one was interested in analogue in those times... |
Mr D I guess it's just in my inherit nature to try to help people out though I think Ekhart will have his own ideas on this subject.
Ekhart for the most part Im happy to see the popularity of vinyl swing back for many especially among the youth.The 30 and 40 year olds, yikes did I just type that!
David |
Dear Thuchan, I am a bit confused. Which one did you end up with, Criterion or Caliburn? Also, I went to the Continuum website to try to get some idea of the design and construction of these products. They don't show any photos of the platter and motor with the belt in place. Can you tell me whether the drive is the usual type, where the belt travels around the pulley and platter only, or is there a capstan-like device or secondary pulley, to bring the belt into more continuous contact with the platter? And does the drive belt run around the perimeter of the platter or around what appears to be a smaller diameter subplatter? Thanks. |
Dear Lewm, it`s aContinuum Criterion with a Copperhead tonearm carrying a Lyra Olympos.
You`re right you cannot see details on the website of Continuum. Maybe the pic under the following link helps to answer your question. It´s a usual type drive, the belt runs around the big sub-platter which has not a smaller diameter than the top-platter.
The armboard is mounted on neodym tablets. You may change the distance between the armboards magnets and the lower magnets by turning a screw from underneath the chassis, so also when running the Criterion. This will change the sound if you like. Mark has told me this, it is not written in the manual.
http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/fomE6Ej0CEmJ4D-WeqU3EQ?feat=directlink
... hope the link works |
Thanks very much. The photo answers my question quite nicely. I take it that the magnetic suspension effectively isolates the tonearm mounting board from the rest of the chassis. The design is beautifully executed.
On their website, Continuum site a review of the Criterion in Tone Audio. IMO, that review was written by a person who is not qualified to evaluate a high-end turntable, due to limitations of both his system and his way of thinking. I am surprised Continuum would reference it at all. |
Forgot to ask, in what ways does the Caliburn differ from or improve upon the Criterion? |
It depends whom you ask, but from my experience the Caliburn is bigger, heavier, got a magnetic support for the really heavy platter, a different air system with air bearing, the control unit and vacuum are different and it is equipped with the Cobra. On top of it you get the Castellan stand which is part of the system as Continuum says. Ah forgot, the amount in Dollars you may save runs a little over a 6 digit number... but you got to get the big brother...
There are some new inventions especially realized in the Criterion, also a better vacuum unit.
For building up a Caliburn system you should invest two days, a little less for the little brother.
Did you make your decision? |
Hi Thuchan, great to know the table is breathing and living in your home. I have to ask, what is the belt material? Are you married to the builder's decision here? Does it place any pressure on the platter? What is the relationship to its friction component of tension vs. "stickiness"?
All my best from your west,
Peter |
I am married Peter, yes - but not to Continuum. They are using a somehow transparent belt which fits quite well. One could also use a VPI round belt. I am not sure about the material. We have to search for. You can move the motor unit just a little to raise the tension - but it`s all right. Experimenting here needs to dismount the arm and remove the cover.
here is a closer pic of the Continuum belt
http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/RD60Hg3DnfiNeevifG98GA?feat=directlink |
I got the information of which material the belt is, it is Pyrathane (see article of MF March 2008).
I read in Mike Fremers article that the feet of the Criterion are very special and keep vibrations under control.
This they do not very good as my experiment with RDC-feet showed. I am using the lower half of the RDC feet of Clearlight-Audio putting it under the Criterion feet - and the result is a dramatic one. All quiet at the western front!
Maybe this was a kind of saving measurement by Continuum in contrast to the Caliburn concept.
http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/tksLGRX4sT9DLC0eOZVEKw?feat=directlink |
Good tuntable VERY VERY OVERPRICED!! |
Good tuntable VERY VERY OVERPRICED!! so a Magico Mini 2 owner is calling a tt overpriced, that's rich. btw, i'm not saying that the Magico, or any product, is overpriced. just that if one sees $30k value in a small 2-way, then one should be understanding of a $60k tt. |
a good friend of mine living a little more than 10.000 miles away asked me for a verdict on the Criteron/Copperhead. Everyone who knows me does understand that this is a very difficult job to do regarding the different cartridges, arms, pre-amps etc. i am using on and with the TTs. Nevertheless I used the same chain (Kondo KSL & M7) comparing the Micros with the Continuum.
Here is my result: As the Micros supported by the VPI flywheels are transporting the sound in a very brutal, but not cool or hard and never disguising way (you nearly hear everything) the Criterion is more on the elegant side. The Copperhead with the Olympos creates a very open and transparent sound picture. The quiteness and stableness might be a result of the precison of the electronics as well as of the new vaccuum and the platter design.
It is really fun as it is with the Micros and you may start whipping your feet cause the system plays the records in a fascinating and overwhelming way. I never enjoyed my beloved jazz-records but also other music as I do with this TT. I think it is the first time the Lyra Olympos met its perfect partner in my system - in the Copperhead.
All parts of this TT are pretty well manufactured also the Copperhead. I would recommend anyone who is using the Copperhead to be very careful when moving the tail to the right side which is recommended. Using too long screws when mounting the weights you might touch the tails surface (maybe a hint for a small design change...??).
The unshielded cooper litz might deserve a better solution in the future. I also heard that Continuum is considering providing shielded cables as DaVinci does it in a proper way. Maybe I will exchange it to a Ikeda silver litz and shield the cable when it sees the light. Some of the Criterions or Caliburn owners reported me they are sometimes able to listen to radio.
Using many vacuums I was very surprised how silent the Continuum vacuum works. The design how the vaccum tube leaves the Criterion convinces me much more than with the Caliburn.
I am happy that the Criterion does not need as much servive (hopefully) as the Caliburn does due to its bearing design. I did not want to go for a big magnetic field underneath the table, one reason why I went to the Criterion. Nevertheless it takes nearly the same amount of time to build up the system as it does with the Caliburn. It is in no way a plug and play player. The management and the possibilites of the neodym tablets for the armboard should be mentioned in the next manual. I know that Continuum service people usually do build up the tables. I like to mention this topic because it is a wonderful invention and pretty well executed.
I rather would like to use a second armboard not knowing whether it might touch the top side of the motor pulley. I didn´t see an external hole in the rear of the body for an additional tonearm cable. I guess one should bring it very close to the motor... so maybe some questions I should discuss.
As this is definitely the best modern TT I have listened to so far I will not give away the Micros in the next week...
http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/wkgiDekA80lVbDTyXivgVg?feat=directlink |
I think we can all thank Thuchan for his detailed account of this adventure, Thuchan is a valued asset to this community.
Most certainly Thuchan is one of the rare audio freaks on this plant to indulge in such superlative comparisons, dancing between the best turntables on the planet, feeding some of the finest electronics, speakers, cables in a purpose built room!
I am certain that that Thuchan will take us on his next adventures, heaven knows what he has in mind! |
Second that, Soundlistening...thanks, Eckart!
-Sam |
