Contemplating DEVORE SPEAKERS (and others)....LONG audition report of many speakers

Told you it was long!

I figure what the heck, some people may find all of it interesting, maybe only some, maybe none. No one forced to read it. So onward....

Folks,

I've had Thiel 3.7s for several years and love them dearly. As I've mentioned in other threads, I have to downsize simply due to some ergonomic and aesthetic issues in my room - the speakers have to go partially by the entrance and so any big, deep speakers tend to get in the way.

Over the last two years or so I did a whole bunch of auditioning of many speakers over a year ago to find a replacement - Audio Note, Audio Physic, Focal, Raidho monitors, JM Reynaud, Paradigm Persona, various Revel models, Monitor Audio, Proac, Kudos, Harbeth, Joseph Audio...

I was going to give a report on all of them individually, at one point, but it's been a while so I'll just throw out some thumbnail impressions. They aren't meant to be particularly descriptive of the sound so much as brief reasons as to why I enjoyed or moved on from those speakers. I always sought the best set up achievable for an audition, but of course that's still not like being able to tune a speaker in one's own room. So caveats given, on with some brief impressions:

Audio Note:

(I forget which exact model but it was in the "quite expensive but not impossible" zone for me)
Excellent clarity. Good impact. Nice woody tonality (as in does wood instruments like cello, stand up bass etc with a convincing tone). My main issue is that I could really hear the corner loading aspect of the sound, especially in the lower mids down. Not that the bass was incontinent per se, more that I was just aware of the way the illusion of the bigger bass and sound was being created, in terms of using wall re-enforcement.

Also, I'm a real stickler about instrumental tone and timbre. I've always found that the more room you introduce into the sound, especially in the upper frequencies, the more it will tend to cast a scrim of room sound over the timbre of voices and instruments, homogenizing the most delicate aspects of the timbre. As the Audio Notes pretty much require or are meant to use the room, this was an aspect it would seem hard to get around. (That's one reason I tend to like speakers that will work closer to my listening position).

Audio Physic:

I'm very familiar with the AP sound - have had the Virgos, Scorpios and Libra in my home and heard much of the line through the years. The Avanti was terrific, tonally neutral sounding, clear lively treble without ear piercing. And of course their magical disappearing act, which I love. But didn't have enough of the richness I'd become used to with the bigger Thiels. I suspect the larger Codex woud be killer, but they get in to the too deep/large category.

Focal

I've always found Focal to have a "look at me" sound to their tweeter. Nonetheless I often admired the rich tonality of their large speakers at audio shows. Unfortunately I never found this to transfer to their smaller stand mounted speakers. They struck me as more clinical and left me cold. Recent Audition of the Kanta 2 still had the "check out our TWEETER!" Focal sound, but was smooth and vivid enough. Unfortunately to my ears sounded too "hi-fi" with disjointed bass. My Thiels at home sounded far more organic and believable.

Raidho

Listened to the tiny X1s which were remarkable performers for their size. Super clear, clean, open, killer soundstaging, good snap on drums - represented Joe Morello's solos on Brubeck at Carnegie Hall far more convincingly than any tiny speaker has a right to. Ultimately, too small.

Dealer had a killer deal on the larger C 1.2 stand mounted speakers and I had hope there. I have never, ever liked a ribbon tweeter with cones because every time I hear the discontinuity. I'd say the Raidhos are the first time I did not hear that discontinuity. So it was all that air and delicacy without the usual drawback. However, I'm thinking part of the magic for this has to do with their house curve, which isn't flat but has a "concert hall" dip in the upper mids (I think). Ultimately I tended to hear this as a coloration, a recessing of a portion of the sound. I'm used to the Thiels which at my place are phenomenally linear sounding top to bottom. So there would be percussion instruments, piano parts, and other instruments that would be more distant and subdued on the Raidhos, losing some of the realistic liveliness. I didn't really hear more detail than I was used to from my Thiels, found the sound a bit "grayed" tonally, though rich in the mids and upper bass. These things KICK in terms of upper bass presence and sound much bigger than they are. But I also found that a slightly over-bearing.

In fact, that's a problem I often have with monitor speakers. So many of them are engineered to sound bigger than they are so you don't feel like you are missing base, but the goosing of the bass to achieve this can be to my ears a bit obnoxious vs the more linear bass of a good floor standing speaker (though down lower, they can have their room problems...my Thiels do not).

JM Reynaud Offrande Supreme v2

I was very serious about these speakers. I'd been around for the initial JMR hype years ago, and heard most of their models at a local store. Always had nice tone, both incisive and warm, but a bit too far into the ever-present-coloration territory to my ears. Still, I believe the Supremes had been updated since then and I had two separate auditions at a Dealer when I was visiting Montreal.

They certainly had the JMR virtues. Super clear, almost hot high end, lively presence all around, yet somehow allied to a gorgeous warm tone. This brings in one of the things I like in a speaker - a warm tone not necessariily in the sense of a ripe lower midrange, but rather timbrally - warm in the sense that when an acoustic guitar track is played through the speaker, the signature is that of the warmth of wood, instead of the cold, electronic coloration of most systems. The JMR does this with acoustic instruments and voices. Everything with an amber or blond-wood "glow." And they definitley have a dynamic/transient/open sound that gives a feeling of musicians being right there, playing right now vibe.

Ultimately I found they were a bit biting to my ear in the upper frequencies. While the forwardness was a boon to putting musicians right in front of me, it also tended to fore-shorten depth. An always "they are here" vs "I'm transported to there" vibe. Also, the bass which was really big and deep - they are huge stand mount speakers! - was a bit on the pudgy side. But I get why people love them. If I had the opportunity I'd have liked to try them at home. (Though...maybe not. I actually don't like how they look, and REALLY don't like the JMR wood finishes).

Paradigm Persona

(I believe it was the 3F). Yup, these babies are clear, clear, clear and grain free. They are balanced top to bottom and were, like the Revel, the closest to my Thiel 3.7 speakers in terms of sounding balanced from top to bottom. Drum snares, cymbals, rim hits, percussion, guitar strings etc all had a fairly riveting precision. They had an open-window into the recording studio feel on almost every track. Plus, for their size they sounded BIG, including the image sizes, depth, width of the soundstage. A tremendous speaker for the money. Ultimately I couldn't get on with their looks, at least for my room. But most important, I did find them somewhat fatiguing to listen to after a while, and a bit less organic than my Thiels. (Though I'd bet that could change for the better if set up at my home on my gear).

Revel

I'd repeat most of what I just wrote about the Paradigms. They sounded similar, though the Paradigms seemed to have a next-level sense of purity and transparency vs the Revel. And the Revels tended to sound just a bit more linear and controlled top to bottom. The Revels just sounded like really competent speakers, but didn't grab me.
Again, something about the timbre/tone I get with the Thiels (and some other speakers) have an "it" factor I don't get with the Revels.

Monitor Audio (Gold, I believe - a smaller floor stander)

I've always liked the Monitor Audio sound. My father-in-law uses a HUGE pair of Monitor Audio monitors from the 80's that still strike me as one of the best marriages of believable tone with size and richness I've heard.
I own Monitor Audio bronze monitors for various uses, including home theater surrounds. Though I found once they moved to the Platinum line, with ribbons, the tone became a bit too bleached for my comfort.
The smaller Gold line still was able to do the "golden, bronze" tones in the upper frequencies...just turning toward silver a bit. They were astonishingly clean and clear, with a rainbow of timbral colors coming through. My main gripe is that I realized nothing actually sounded "real" - in the sense of believably organic. Everything sounded a bit hard around the edge - sibilance in vocals for instance being laid bare as processed in a bit too ruthless manner.

Proac - D20R (I believe...)

Love the look of these especially the wood finish in ebony on the model I auditioned. Would really have been a perfect size replacement for the Thiels, and went down about as low. Unfortunately I couldn't get around the extremely obvious character of the ribbon tweeter vs the mids/bass. I was always aware of it, and generally found the sound too cool in the upper frequencies to really get into. Bass was also not particularly impressive in terms of tone and control. One of the more disappointing speaker auditions.

Kudos

You really don't hear much about Kudos around here. Lack of dealers and North American presence I guess (as it seems to me a majority of people posting here are from North America...if I am indeed right about that).
Anyway, at a TAVES shows a few years ago I was frankly astonished by the sound coming from a pair of Kudos Super 20 floor standing speakers. It had a brilliant, reach out and grab me "alive" tone that made my brain think "real performance" more than most of what I'd heard that day. A bit forward...but wow what an effect. So they went on to my radar.

Turns out a local dealer carried Kudos, and there I heard some very small floor standing Kudos X3 speakers.
Well, there it was! That tone! Like the bigger model I'd heard at the show, this one had a dialed up upper frequency range that gave liveliness and detail. But it was, somewhat like the JMR speakers, allied to a generally warm tone, with a spectrum of timbral color to trumpet, wood blocks, acoustic guitar etc. If found the sound quite compelling, and so wondered about Kudos higher end models. As it turned out, Kudos in the last year has come out with the Titan range, a trickle down from their flagship. I really liked the design of the Titan 606 speakers, they were a great replacement size for the Thiels from the specs. But...my local dealer didn't want to bring them in so I would never hear them (I certainly did not want him to order them just for my sake, given I couldn't know before hearing them if I'd want to buy them).

But then during a recent trip to Europe I ended up in London for a couple days, so I found a Kudos dealer there.
And not only did he have the 606s for me to hear, but also the literally just introduced stand mounted Titan 505 that had many people raving at a recent British audio show. Very cool. Both speakers, as with most Kudos speakers, employ isobaric loading for the bass.

Both the 505 and 606 displayed the Kudos house sound which was that lively top end. Great for adding bit to guitar picking, hearing the bow on strings, transient aliveness etc. Even if not strictly neutral, it's fun (so long as timbres to my ears are otherwise organic). I found the 505 to actually sound a bit less balanced than the floor standing speaker. I suppose this is my allergy to the "tiny speaker trying to sound like a big speaker" tuning, but the bass seemed somewhat over-warm, and the speakers themselves a tad clinical from the mids up. Still, they were spacious, enthusiastic sounding, with great separation of instruments and voices. And certain tracks like Lightfoot's If You Could Read My Mind were actually magical on the 505. A similar warm timbre to the JMR speakers, and the added top end sparkle livened up the guitars and strings which can sound a bit tepid on many other speakers.

The larger 606 speakers sounded more linear, richer, a bit darker, and produced a satisfyingly large sound for their size. Similar to the Revel or Paradigm speakers. The upper frequency balance was a double edged sword: it could make drum high hats, snares, cymbals, guitars stand out in particularly, and satisfyingly, vivid relief. But could also highlight the studio/microphone/effects on voices making vocals sound a bit more "hi-fi" than most. But naturally recorded vocals were by the same token vivid and clear. Bass had an interesting character, sort of tight, punchy and big...a sense of the bass "spreading" in the room. My impression veered between "impressive" on the bass and "hmm...not sure I'm sold on this isobaric bass." I'll say that Herbie Hancock's Chameleon, one of my test songs on most speakers, was produced in a particularly compelling, vivid manner. The drums were just crystal clear and had that "live drum playing" feeling. It was one of those "wow" moments that kind of haunt you when you hear a certain track sound different and more realistic than normal.

That said, some other tracks veered into the intolerable territory (e.g. horns too piercing on Earth Wind and F ire live). It's the kind of audition that was very promising in some areas, leaving me thinking "these COULD be awesome if I could tame the problems and keep the good parts." Maybe on tubes, and in my well damped room. But a one time, not terribly long audition didn't allow me to commit to such an expensive purchase, when I hear some things that leave me with misgivings.I wish these models landed locally because I could further warm up to them, but that was the only shot at them.

Harbeth:

I auditioned the various models - Monitor 30.1, C7ES-3, Super HL5 Plus. (Also listened to the 40s, since they had them set up).

I love the Harbeth sound and there's little need to describe it, since so many are familiar. But wow...their particular magic with voices is something. They somehow capture voices actually being produced by an organic person vs an electronic version of a person. No matter what type of material, jazz, processed pop, R&B, even electronica/dance, they always seem be be able to find the "person" singing in the mix. And of course they have such a smooth, full, rich sound with acoustic instruments sounding very much themselves.

The Monitor 30.1 had those qualities, but I was a bit too aware of their bass limitations (cut off at the knees), and was also aware of a bit of darkness, lack of "air." In the close my eyes "could I believe that guitar or person is really there" test, a darkening of tone, a shelving of the upper frequencies, are usually a dead giveaway to me of the artifice. But within it's range....gorgeous.

The C7ES-3 were wonderful. There was that bass extension! Displayed the Harbeth mids if not quite as refined. But over all I found the bass a little less controlled than I'd want.

Super HL5 Plus was the Goldilocks choice of the group. It had the added bass extension I heard from the C7ES, but with better integration and control. It had super refined, open, smooth, rich midrange, but with the added top end openness and extension (addition of the super tweeter?) that made the sound more realistic and believable to me. Though I was still hearing some things that I felt my Thiels did better so I wasn't quite sure yet.
Unfortunately, when I came back to this particular store to audition the HL5 Plus I didn't have a good audition experience. I've described the experience elsewhere here, so won't repeat it. But suffice it to say, it did not make me want to move forward with this particular store. (I have more recently had very good interactions with this store, so I would say my bad experience probably turned out to be an anomaly at that location).

Anyway, the Harbeths dropped off my radar for over a year until I heard the Super HL5 Plus sounding superb in the Montreal Audio show. Intriguing. Later on an audio mart I saw a pair in a gorgeous rosewood finish for, by far, the best price I've ever seen for a used Harbeth. I grabbed them, knowing I could definitely sell them without losing money, with this thought: They are not in the finish I want. So I'll use them as a "home audition" of the Harbeths and if I love them, I'll sell these ones and go to my local dealer to buy brand new ones in the finish I require.

It turned out I really really liked the Super HL5 Plus, but didn't love. They did all the wonderful Harbeth things, that big rich sound, in this model especially, also with a studio-monitor clarity, and generally organic sound.
However, I simply found my Thiels did essentially everything the Harbeths did, but better. I never could get a satisfying depth to the soundstage of the Harbeths (not usually a problem in my room), always sounding a bit fore-shortened. And it seemed a flip-side of the fullness/lively cabinet design was a certain "filling in the spaces with texture" quality. The Thiels, for instance, separated the Los Angelese Guitar Quartet's guitars more effortlessly, with more precision and realism and tonal density, but without sacrificing any image size or warmth of tone. Nothing quite sounds like the Harbeth on vocals. But ultimately they could not budge me from the Thiels and I sold them.

That said, I now have a store near me selling Harbeths and I'm in there buying vinyl a lot. Every time I hear the Harbeths playing I just want to sit down and listen, thinking "These are so beautiful. Why don't I own them?" But then I remember, I did...I did the comparisons. Would love them in a second system, though.

Joseph Audio - Pulsar and Perspectives.

As a long time high audio rag reader, I've long been familiar with the Joseph Audio name, but it wasn't until last year in Montreal that I actually heard a JA speaker: the Pearl 3. Jeff Joseph was playing an acapella group piece and I was just stopped in my tracks. It wasn't just the clarity - tons of high end speakers produce vivid vocals. It was the authenticity of the timbre of the voices! It just sounded bang on. Not cold, gray, steely, silvery, or darkened, or all the "off-timbre" electronic signatures that define for me hi-fi voices vs real. It was that human warmth timbre, that sounded just like the people talking in the room. This was so rare and magical it put the JA speakers immediately on my radar. Upon reading that the stand mounted Pulsars had a similar presentation I found a local dealer and auditioned them. Yup, they did! They were fairly mesmerizing. Even despite my misgivings about small speakers trying to sound big, the Pulsars did this better than almost any other stand mounted speaker I've heard - very rich and satisfying. Though I did note a bit of excess warmth here and there in the lower midrange, upper bass. And I still wondered if I could end up with a stand mounted speaker after living with big floor standers. At home, I listen not only in front of the speakers for "critical listening" but I'll also crank them to listen just down the hall, in my work office or through the house. And at these times I really start to hear the limitation on the small speaker. It can sound like it's going low, but it becomes sort of "fake bass" in a way, where it just doesn't have the solidity and impact of a big speaker.

So the dealer suggested I listen to the floor standing Joseph Audio Perspective model. I said I don't know, they cost more than I was thinking of spending. But, he persisted and...his up-sell worked ;-)

The Perspectives really grabbed me. They sounded more linear than the Pulsars to my ears through the mids down, had really thick, punchy bass that seemed to make every type of music fun, yet seemed controlled enough to make "audiophile" stuff very realistic. They really disappeared with a huge soundstage and great imaging. I'm a tone/timbre buy first, but I ultimately want speakers to disappear and soundstage well - it's part of the illusion, the magic show, that I appreciate and that makes me want to sit in front of a high end system in the first place.

But what really grabbed me was the overall tone/timbre of the presentation! I remember playing some Chet Baker and some Julie London mono recordings and being shocked at how clear the sound was - how the Perspectives took a central mono image of voice, guitar, bass, drums etc and seemed to effortlessly unravel the different timbres and individual players. And how realistic the voices were. Another moment I remember were some tracks from the Bullet soundtrack (I'm a soundtrack fiend). Every instrument that entered the mix - a single sax, a flute, an organ, a group of saxes, horns...sounded incredibly pure, distinct and accurate in timbre! That's one of the things I always loved about going to the symphony, and sitting close, closing my eyes: that rainbow of different acoustic sources, materials, shiny silvery bells, brassy cymbals, woody reeds, woody cellos, golden hued horns...

The Perspectives (and the Pulsars) were giving me more of this sensation, of "surprise" in how each new instrument sounded, than I typically get from most speakers. And they did it with a particular purity, and lack of hash in any part of the frequency spectrum, making for a less mechanical sound than usual (Fremer nailed this in his Pulsar review).

Plus there was a great sense of "flow" to the Perspectives, the way dynamically the sound would swell dramatically when called fo (again, soundtracks were great on the Perspectives). All these elements came together to produce a great emotional connection to music through the speakers.

So, they sounded special to me.

I got a home audition and they continued to sound beautiful in my home. But having both the big Thiels and the Josephs meant I could compare, which inevitably gave some ground to the Thiels - the bigger more realistic image size, the slightly better precision in imaging and tonal density, a more linear presentation from top to bottom from the Thiels, where the Perspectives could sound a bit "puffy" in the bass sometimes.
And yet, the Perspectives still had a magic the Thiels couldn't do with tone. I remember playing back Talk Talk's Happiness Is Easy and thinking "I literally don't think reproduced sound gets better than this."

So stuck between A and B I realized this: I couldn't give up the Thiels. After all my auditioning, nothing really did everything as well in the same package and the 3.7s had become very rare on the used market, no longer made, so it could be a big regret to let them go.

BUT...I was also bitten by the Perspectives. Once heard, they were hard to unhear.
So I decided, dammit, I'll have both! I tend to hoard speakers somewhat, so I'd keep the Thiels but buy the Perspectives, and I'd have the Thiels to throw in to the room whenever I wanted the Thiel sound.

But....this meant I'd no longer be selling my Thiels to pay for new speakers. So I'd have to save up for the Perspectives. And this I've been doing.

Then, aha! A pair of Thiel 2.7 speakers in the ebony finish I've always wanted showed up on Audiogon. I grabbed them for a killer price and they have been fantastic! Smaller than the 3.7s, better looking in the room, they have the Thiel attributes. Done...right? Naw...I haven't been a fervent audiophile for decades for nuthin'.
I've been on track toward the Perspectives for so long, it's hard to get off. So once I got the 2.7s my thinking changed to "Well..now I can sell the big Thiels and have that money to put toward the Perspectives!"

So as I've been readying to sell the big Thiels, and about to spend more than I ever have on a pair of speakers (Perspectives are expensive to us Canucks), I thought "If I'm about to spend this much, I better do some due diligence and make sure I didn't leave another option on the floor." So I recently checked out a speaker brand that I'd wondered about for a while now. Devore Fidelity.

And that will lead to my next post.

prof04-27-2018 1:09am

Showing 50 responses by prof

prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-02-2019 at 03:18pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete bjesien, Interesting about amps: John Devore has said that he designs speakers with an easy load so that they will be more amp agnostic, so it seems to me his speakers should change less with different amplification than others. I've heard the O series on tubes and solid state and they seemed to retain their character quite well. But since I'm a tube-head, speakers that work well with tubes are always a good thing. The Joseph speakers are a purportedly benign load for tube amps as well (though lower sensitivity).
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-02-2019 at 03:26pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete When I was at the stereo shop at the counter purchasing the Joseph Perspectives, the store owner went down to the end of the room where the Perspectives were - and other systems - and turned on some music.I thought it was the Perspectives system he'd turned on and when I paid attention to the sound happening at the other end of the room I thought "uh-oh, that actually doesn't sound so great. Seemed a bit...pedestrian, a bit dark. Nothing special at all, not like I remember. Am I making a mistake?" But when I finished paying and went to the speakers, turned out it wasn't the Perspectives playing but a pair of Spendor A7 speakers. Whew! I sat for a little bit and listened to the Spendors and, again like my experience of the D7, just didn't find anything particularly compelling in the sound. Seemed to be a tad dark, but with those slightly steely, wiry higher frequencies similar to what I didn't care for in my D7 audition. Though the A7 uses a different tweeter than the D7, it seems I don't really get along with the direction Spendor went with their modern tower speakers. (That may change with a good audition some day, but that's my experience so far).
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-03-2019 at 03:13am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete donquichotte My listen to the A7 was very brief. It didn't have the same tweeter sound as the D7 I heard, which had a hard quality that made me want to turn the volume down. Rather, the A7 higher frequencies just sort of sounded a bit, as I said, "wiry" or steely. Not very natural. But there's no way I'd put much on such a brief assessment.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-03-2019 at 07:28am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Daveyf, Thanks for the suggestion. The SF speakers I've heard never really "spoke" to me. The older versions were a bit too dark sounding for me, the newer versions seemed to have lightened up the tone, more toward neutral, but the last one I auditioned (I'm forgetting the model) didn't do it for me. (I bought the original Perspectives, on discount - dealer demo model) I'm pretty good at assessing whether a speaker will work in my room, but more to the point I've had the Joseph Perspectives in my home for audition before. Cheers!
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-03-2019 at 03:14am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete rocray Thank you. No way I'm giving up my Spendors! I'll still throw them in the system now and again. I haven't heard the other iterations of the 3/5s (except the Harbeths, I think, at one point though I don't remember them well).
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-03-2019 at 09:06pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete rocray I sold my Thiel 3.7s a while back, but I'm hanging on to the Thiel 2.7s I've referenced here for, as you say, a different flavor. It would be very hard to let go of those given I love how they look and their performance is just crazy good for the price I paid (used). I don't expect the Joseph speakers to be the "be all and end all" of speakers for me, so it will be interesting to see which speakers end up staying put in my system longest. I had to sell my MBL 121 speakers to pay for the Joseph speakers, but after 10 years of owning the MBLs I was ok with finally releasing my death-grip on them to say bye-bye :-)
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-04-2019 at 02:47pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete I won't be picking them up until sometime next week.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-05-2019 at 07:07pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Thanks displayname! I hope so too. But I am self-aware enough to realize it's unlikely I have found an "end-game" speaker in the Josephs, simply due to my own proclivity for liking different aspects of different speakers. I"d say though that of any speaker I've owned, the Thiel 3.7s seemed the most "end-game" for me. Powered by my CJ tube gear, set up in a nice-sounding room, they just seemed to check off every box for me: Smooth, fatigue-free, clean of coloration yet warm and lush while being super detailed and alive sounding, dense, palpable sonic images, a total disappearing act from top to bottom and the best soundstaging/imaging I've ever experienced at home. And totally coherent, impossible to "hear out" the drivers, while having a very wide sweet spot and even tonal balance. Every time I heard another speaker, including significantly more expensive, I'd come home and the Thiels only impressed me more. They were just too big visually/ergonomically, for my room. The smaller Thiel 2.7s I still own carry through the same voice as the bigger model (and I even prefer an element or two of the 2.7s) but listening critically, they are not quite on par with the level of refinement in the 3.7 flagship. I'm excited, and a bit trepidatious about the Joseph speakers. Ideally they work out well for me and I'd like to upgrade them to the "Graphene 2" version as soon as I can afford it.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-12-2019 at 03:57pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Almost there.... I now have my Joseph Audio Perspective (original) speakers in da house! All set up. First of all, wow these speakers are gorgeous! They have the rosewood finish with a beautiful grain structure, and with the fit and finish they just "glow" with a great luster. I can’t remember seeing a more high quality-looking speaker in person. I can just stare at the things with a grin! When I was about to order a new pair last year, through my dealer, I’d been in touch with Jeff Joseph about ordering a rosewood pair (because I like wood grain) in the browner spectrum to best fit my room decor. He sent me a couple pictures of some finishes that had come in that were more on the brown side, which looked good. (But then...disaster struck and I had to forego ordering). Well it turns out that Joseph sent that browner pair to my local dealer that summer for their demo model, which are the demo model I just bought, so I ended up with those speakers! They are only a year old and in perfect condition. (So nice, since I’m used to purchasing speakers second hand with inevitable nicks and blemishes here and there). The black top/face of these speakers are the most prone to picking up/showing any scratches so I have to be careful there (even used cotton gloves to move them around). And on that note: Yesterday was the first day they were set up in my room, and yesterday the cable guy showed up to change our TV boxes to a new wi-fi based streaming system. The Joseph speakers are in my living room which doubles as our home theater, so the cable guy was working in there. At one point I enter the room and the cable guy has placed crap ON TOP of my speakers! (Remotes etc). I hurriedly took the stuff off and placed it on the sofa instead, inspected for scratches..whew...none yet. Then 1/2 hour later (he’s still working) I go in the room again and he’s placed them on the speakers again!!!! Cripes! I wanted to kick him out right there! First day I have the speakers and they are already being abused by some stranger! It just reminds me of how "normal folk" don’t see speakers the way we do - they are generally used to cheap stuff that was just as good for holding the cigarette tray on top as for anything else. I’ve had similar instances when having big groups of people over watching UFC fights or whatever. It’s always the "friend" someone brought who thinks nothing of leaving his beer on top of my nice speakers! Anyway, I was all ready to start listening to the speakers last night when...my music server no longer showed up. Aaagh. Of course. The cable guy! He’d changed everything around, new modem, new wi-fi router...my system no longer sees my raspberry Pi/Logitech server. And I"m crap trying to figure this stuff out. On to trouble-shooting....
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-12-2019 at 06:18pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete fsonicsmith Ouch! Maddening. The hosting a party thing reminds me too: We hosted a party years ago, many parents and kids. I'd just installed our new home theater in our living room, including one of my prized home theater possessions, a very rare Hales Transcendence Center channel, below the projection screen.Hales was gone as a company and very few of those speakers were ever made. The partying was being done in the back family room/kitchen of our house so I hoped the room wouldn't be invaded, though I kept a wary eye. Well, wouldn't you know it, I noticed one little guy (I dunno, maybe 5 years old or something) trundling toward the home theater room on his own. I followed to see him in the room looking around, hand outstretched to touch the projection screen (VERY hard to get any finger marks off those!). As politely and firmly and quickly as I could I asked him not to touch the screen. Suggested he go back and join the others.He was also inches in front of the Hales center speaker, and I asked if he could just step away from that speaker as it could be damaged easily. The lil' brat grinned at me and then raised back his foot in a kicking position, to kick in the speaker drivers, looking at me grinning. It was someone else's kid, I wasn't going to physically grab him away to save the speakers, so I was stuck pleading from a distance "please don't, how about just going back to the party?" The kid makes a swift kicking motion to the speakers, I gasp, he stops his foot just before the speakers touching the grill clothe, grinning, pulls his leg back and does it again, getting a kick out of my panic. I'm stuck at this point not being able to effectively call to a parent to help as I didn't even know this kid's name or who his parents were. And if I ran to the back of the house to start asking whose kid he was and for that parent to help, who knows what the kid would do while I was gone? So for what seemed like far too long, this kid held my hostage with his foot raised to kick in my speaker just because he enjoyed being a little sh*t. Eventually he got bored and left. Charming.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-29-2019 at 08:00pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete JOSEPH AUDIO PERSPECTIVES - OWNER REPORT Well, I figured after all the pixels spilled on this thread concerning my deliberations I ought to mention how things are going with my purchase of the Joseph Audio Perspective (original) speakers. I’ve had them up and running for a couple of weeks. I’ve already written a lot about the things I knew I liked about the Joseph Perspectives ("JPs" for the rest of this post). So I’ll start with some of the concerns I had before buying them. These concerns arose from my own demos at the store, from having an in-home demo a couple years ago, and from reading the original stereophile review. 1. TOO BRIGHT? The original stereophile review of the Perspective mentioned that they were tipped up enough in the high frequencies to be somewhat ruthless and bright on some recordings. I don’t like piercing sounding speakers (who does, really?). And especially in my case, as I’d mentioned I had an exacerbation of my hearing sensitivity (hyperacusis...which I don’t usually suffer from) that I’d been trying to get over, and that makes anything high pitched and sharp absolutely brutal and painful to my ears.I worried that this was perhaps not yet the time to buy the Perspectives.Though, in store demos and at home, I found them smooth sounding for the most part. 2. TOO DARK? Yeah, sounds like a contradiction right? Yes, sort of. I occasionally heard the JPs to sound a bit on the darker, less airy side than I’d liked.Almost "too smooth" in the high frequencies where the "black background" almost seemed to be part of a shelving down of the airier frequencies. 3. LOOSE BASS? This was a combo of having heard the JPs sound occasionally a bit loose in the bass in demos, combined with what seemed to be some confirmation in the original stereophile review. 4. NOT DYNAMIC ENOUGH? In my original at home demo, I sometimes felt I wasn’t hearing the dynamics I thought the speakers were capable of. 5. TOO THIN SOUNDING? I wondered if the JPs would be the right choice because since the time I’d thought I wanted a pair, I seem to be gravitating towards a thicker, richer sound (hence, all my auditioning of the Devore O speakers). So, I was somewhat nervous to roll the dice. But since I’d heard the speakers often sound glorious, and since I had a good deal for the pair I wanted, and because they suited my aesthetic/ergonomic listening room requirements particularly well....I pulled the trigger. On to my user report....
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-29-2019 at 08:02pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete RESULTS SO FAR: These speakers are GLORIOUSLY GREAT! Where to start? First, they are the most gorgeous-looking speakers I’ve ever seen (at least anywhere near their price point). But beyond that, they certainly do the "disappearing and soundstaging/imaging" thing like mad. But I have to admit I’d be more impressed by this if I hadn’t been so used to most of my speakers having been stellar performers in the same respect. But, it’s nice to have. I did a quick set up, dialled in the imaging and generally balance using some tracks I always use from Everything But The Girl (Amplified Heart). Then played a track I remembered loving on the Perspectives, "There He Is" from the Amazing Spiderman 2 soundtrack (not a soundtrack I love, but one that impressed me on the Perspectives in demos). Sure enough there were those timbral and resolution qualities I loved. The track has many very subtle plucking, tinkling, textural elements lightly swirling about that lead up to a big "synth bass drop" moment, and all those elements just sparkled in the air around the speakers wonderfully. It was effortless to hear even the quietest, most subtle sounds. Then the bass synth part swelled up to become a single column of pulsating air right in the middle of the soundstage. And, again, this reminded me of what I really liked about the JPs - they have this meaty, dense, tonally "chewy" midbass-on-down quality. That bass pulsing column of air ends in a lower bass "drop" down and the JPs just sent that wave of low bass rolling along the floors to my chair, filling up the whole room, an a dramatic manner. Which again reminded me: these speakers have a way with soundtracks, with the "drama" of how the music swells with power, retreats to delicacy, suddenly punches out...just the general flexing of dynamics. They are just very engaging in this way. Then another track from that same soundtrack (I think it might have been "My Enemy") came up. That soundtrack combines orchestral instruments - often delicately used - with often heavy synth intrusions. This track was nuts on the JPs! It’s going along doing some fairly sedate soundtrack stuff when all of a sudden these synth bursts crack the air like lightning and on the JPs these things just burst in to the room with such power and tonal complexity and SIZE. I remember a review (maybe it was an Art Dudley review of some Spendor speakers) where the speakers were describing as having the surprising capability of suddenly sounding much larger than they’d led you to expect "like a cat suddenly puffing up it’s fur to become bigger." That’s what it was like with the JPs. The amount and quality of bass especially just takes you by surprise, and it’s like they suddenly expand in to bigger speakers at a moments notice. It wasn’t that the synth parts simply sounded of low-bass, but they sounded BIG and authoritative, as if coming from bigger floor standing speakers. And then when the music went quiet again, it was super delicate. That really was the moment where I knew I’d chosen killer speakers given my love of soundtrack music. As I started playing a variety of music - funk, disco, soundtrack, jazz, electronica and more - the general sense of the sound was an expansive, super-refined clarity and tonal purity, where any scrim of hash was wiped away leaving the exact timbral qualities of any instrument pure and obvious - the metallic ring and bite of brass instruments sounded unequivocally made of metal, wood of wood, subtle synth parts mixed with acoustic instruments were completely discernible. There is a sense of crazy-high resolution, without any hard or grainy analytical tinge. The "clearing away of haze" means that the exact nature of the reverb in any recording is very obvious. If the recording contains closer mic’d instruments, the sound becomes appropriated huge and life-like "drum set in the room" stuff. Though I had really liked aspects of the JP bass in demos, I worried about the bass being possibly overwhelming in my room (though my room is generally great for getting good, even bass). But it turns out the bass (and it’s integration up to the upper bass/lower mids) is fantastic! First, it’s tight, punchy, and every bit as tonally beautiful as the rest of the frequencies. Jaco Pastorius’ bass just appears as a dense instrument between the speakers, and there is more tonal subtlety, beauty and exactness in how his bass is rendered than I’ve heard before. And that’s generally speaking true of most electric bass instruments, and kick drums, through these speakers. Far from one-noting it, they untangle the timbral qualities of drums and bass expertly. Yet with a Big Juicey punchy quality that really drives music. I’m especially happy with kick drums. One of the reasons I’ve been attracted to the Devore O speakers is how their big, round bass quality made drum sets sound particularly impactful, where I was always aware of what the kick drum was doing. I’m surprised how close the JP speakers have come to that quality. Their bass also has a big, round, hefty quality (though focused!) that makes kick drums send this "punch of air/bass) OUT of the speakers to the listener, so I’m feeling that bass drum’s rhythm. My Thiel 2.7s (like the bigger 3.7s) still have among the best bass I’ve heard in terms of how focused, dense, controlled and punchy it sounds. But I’d say the JP speakers add a bit more "fun" in to the mix, in the way their bass has that projection and reach-out-to-the-listener quality. My legs are often resting on an ottoman and when the JP speakers are doing bass, I can feel it through the ottoman in to my legs, which I don’t remember from the Thiels. (Still love the Thiels though!). I can crank the JPs quite loud to listen to from a room down the hall, and they really kick ass! As for the high frequencies, I’ve found positions in which they are very extended and airy, having that "lit up" character which is really nice. Too bright? NO! Thank goodness! The vast majority of content has been so smooth and so clear that if anything the JPs have allowed me to play at ever higher sound levels. They just never give any impression of sounding harder or grittier or of distortion creeping in, so I can listen somethings a bit "too loud" (louder than I should at the moment). Got to watch that. They also actually sound pretty nice at lower listening volumes, with their combination of rich bass and clarity. Though upping the volume does help give a better sense of dynamics. I was listening to some soundtracks last night on LP, the original Superman LP I’ve listened to my whole life (not very good recording quality) and a more recent re-issue of the Planet Of The Apes (Goldsmith) and I was marveling at how authentic, precise and beautiful all the instruments sounded. And how natural the dynamic swings all sounded. I certainly heard more from the Superman soundtrack than I ever remembered. Overall the sonic impression I get from the Joseph speakers is a sense of "luxuriousness." That is, the sound is just so "high quality," smooth and complex. As against other speakers I own: The little Spendor s3/5s still are the champs at sounding "filled out" and doing voices with a truly human quality. The JPs are very clear and timbrally convincing, but that BBC thing is still something special. The Thiels (which I haven’t actually directly compared yet) are still a bit larger in sonic size and weight and more evenly lush from top to bottom. My little Thiel 02s, which I’ve mentioned as a sort of benchmark sound I can’t let go, actually could sound on some tracks even more palpable and dynamically energized (without the lower bass). I’d still love to have heard the Devore speakers at my place, and my jones for the Devores isn’t totally gone. But then, hey, I’m a speaker-whore. But overall, the JP speakers have left me hugely impressed, and in some ways are the best speaker I’ve ever owned (and among the best, in some ways for what I listen for, I’ve heard anywhere). (Also: I want to hug and kiss my good old Conrad Johnson Premier 12 140W/side tube monoblocks. There’s a reason these things have stayed in my system for 20 years, powering all manner of speakers. They’ve never failed to come through and they are driving the JPs beautifully - I’m getting that organic CJ quality in the mids/highs while also getting excellent bass control and dynamics).
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-30-2019 at 08:15pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Sorry, that user report I'd posted yesterday was long. Short version: I like ’em! :)
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 11-07-2019 at 03:18pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete I'd referred to my previous post describing my Joseph speakers.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 01-11-2020 at 03:01am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete snatex I'm glad you enjoyed the thread. Still haven't heard the Devore Super Nines. When/If I do, I'll report back in this thread. I've been playing around with the JA's, tweaking speaker/listening positions and have them dialed in very nicely. Of course I can pick nits with any speaker, but overall the Perspectives have been amazing. Not much to add to my previous description, really. The combination of clarity, smoothness and punchy quality are so compelling. They can do spacious, they can do groove and drive. I've been listening to a bunch of rock recently - LP reissues of Van Halen and Rush (R.I.P Neil !) and having a ball. In fact I just came from listening to Rush's Hemispheres and some of Moving Pictures and it was just blowing my mind. There is a peering-into-the-studio clarity to the sound, with big spacious soundstaging, amazing separation of instruments, and the rhythm section of Geddy Lee's bass and Peart's drum work is riveting - super clear, defined, but big, dense and punchy so the music just drives. It's nice to have a speaker that does tonal qualities so well for all the acoustic stuff, but which can be so much fun for funk, rock, etc. Lots of fun!
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 01-11-2020 at 05:15pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete keithr Dunno. I guess that's because my desires for a speaker tend to be limited to what I can afford. And also I have limitations in terms of what will be acceptable in my room. Though mega-speakers are fun, I'm not chasing perfection so they don't appeal as real-world aspirations. At one point though I did pine after the MBL 101E speakers. Not so much these days. The Kef Blades might be a contender for a more expensive speaker simply based on hearing them once at a show. But they wouldn't work aesthetically in my room. But you know how it is for many of us: we go to an audio show, hear crazy-priced gear, come home to our system which has been honed to our own desires and think "Actually, I like my system better than most of what I heard there." If I had the room, the Joseph Audio Pearls would be intriguing. And I still wonder about the Devore orangutan speakers. If I had the room and more-money-than-I-know-what-to-do-with, the Devore O Reference system is very intriguing to me (would love to hear them). I'm intrigued by various horn-based systems but haven't heard enough of them at length to know whether they are "for me." I love listening to hi-fi systems, any system, and especially checking out various speaker designs. And yet, sort of paradoxically, it is very, very rare for me to hear a speaker that makes me want to own it. Few hi fi systems have the "it" factor that makes me want to just keep listening, that sound "right" (to my ears). And that's one reason I tend to hang on to speakers that do have that "it" factor for me (hence I currently still have 5 different speaker systems, though I'm mostly listening to the Josephs currently).
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 02-19-2020 at 02:39am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete (I posted this in the Joseph Graphene2 thread, but figured it made sense to add to this thread too). Righto... So today I dropped in to my JA dealer (who sold me my pair of original Perspectives a few months back), for a listen to the new Perspective2Graphene. Before I get to that: taking user reports and show reports all together, the consensus seemed to be "stronger, tighter bass, more refined and resolved midrange and highs, though most of the changes noticeable in the bass. I love my Perspectives, though of course no speaker is The Perfect Speaker for me. For instance, I know I’d also love the fuller, bigger, richer sound of the Devore O/96 speakers as well. And my Thiel 2.7s are also a bit richer/fuller sounding toward the top end as well. Since I’d consider upgrading my Perspectives to the graphene version when I have the money, I had a couple of concerns: Did the bass change so much that it would now overwhelm my room? My current Perspectives are just on the edge of doing this sometimes, though most of the time they are well controlled and I love the bass quality. Also, the new Perspectives measure flatter in the high end vs the uprising highs of the original. I wondered if possibly the descriptions of "smoother, more relaxed, easier on the ears" may have resulted in a darkening of the tone, less airy. And would they be a bit reticent dynamically in the upper mids/high frequencies? Unfortunately one aspect I could not get a handle on was the bass performance. The speakers were hampered by being too close together and too close to the wall behind them, making the bass sound overwarm and exaggerated on tracks with deep bass. So that was a bummer to not get a good handle on that. But aside from that, when the music wasn’t exciting the room bass nodes, the bass was nice. What I heard generally speaking was, yes, what seemed to be a somewhat more refined, resolved, clearer sound. The clarity and cleanliness and that grain-free quality was remarkable. I heard bits and pieces, say an acoustic guitar part in a familiar mix etc, seem to be more vividly resolved and tonally separated in the mix. And the high end weren’t at all dark sounding - they kept essentially the same tonal signature of the original. But it just felt like the level of resolution and clarity had taken a step forward. This was especially evident in some tracks with layered electric and acoustic guitars where the highs were realistically extended, grain free and very present. The layers of shimmering harmonics heard between all the guitars and the guitar strings were the best I’ve heard. The sound had a sense of "luxuriousness" in it’s ease, clarity and gorgeous tone of each element in a mix. To make sure they could rock I spun Rush’s 2112. The sound was rich, full and very punchy. All the track elements super clear and separated, and the tone of Geddy’s bass and especially Alex’s guitar, electric and acoustic, were rendered with a upper midrange/high frequency beauty...the guitar tone just shimmered with more complexity than on most speakers. Also, the electric guitars did seem a bit thicker and more substantial than back home on my Perspectives (this is where my Thiels give a bolder presentation in the upper mids with electric guitar). Not sure if this was a trait of the new speakers, or the large Sim Audio amps driving them. Back home, spinning several of the same tracks on my Thiels (currently in my system), the Thiels were as usual a somewhat richer, thicker sound, with very dense, round imaging, very organic and relaxing, but also dynamic. The main thing missing in the Thiels vs the Perspectives is the exquisite refinement of timbre up in to the higher frequencies. They miss that gorgeous sparkle and aliveness of the Perspectives. I love the Thiels’ bass which is both super in control, but dense and punchy. But the Perspectives (my Perspectives anyway) bass has even more roundness and punch/kick toward the listener, which makes bass guitar and drum kits (kick drum especially) feel more impactful and "in the room." Anyway, my hour-long demo of the Perspective2s left me with the impression that they are a slightly more refined version, which seem to retain what I like in my Perspectives. I’m a bit haunted by some of the sound quality I heard today so I’ll certainly consider upgrading my Perspectives when I have the money. Though for me the jury is still out about the bass quality.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 09-25-2020 at 09:12pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete I really enjoy having more than one pair of speakers that turn my crank. Months ago I put the Thiel 2.7s back in to the system - they did that dense, punchy, lush sound, more filled out from top to bottom. I enjoyed the sound so much the Thiels stayed in the system for many months. Long enough for me to re-acclimatize to the Thiel sound. Just switched back in the Josephs last night and again experienced being blown away. The level of clarity combined with smoothness in the mids and highs, and the juicy impact of the bass, along with the huge airy soundstaging and imaging, is just intoxicating. They are like emotion-machines, with their timbral beauty and the way they ebb and swell dynamically. I’m in this quandary of weather to finally integrate subs in to my system that I own...literally had them for years and been too lazy!...or sell that stuff to afford an upgrade of my Perspectives to the graphene version.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 09-26-2020 at 01:24am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete In no way would I dissuade you from the Spendors. (I have Spendor S3/5s and love them!) But I did not find the Spendor D7 a suitable substitute for the Joseph speakers to my ear. (And I heard them with Sim audio!). Not at all on the same level. But, that's a personal call. The Spendors may push your buttons even if they didn't push mine. (I haven't heard the 7.2s, but I doubt they are worlds different from the 7s).
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 09-26-2020 at 07:07pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Yeah, that's why I've wanted to hear the updated classic line. I was super impressed upon hearing Spendor D9s at a show. That was one reason why the 7's I auditioned on two occasions (and some A line speakers) were so disappointing.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-14-2020 at 04:15pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete I'm now sitting at about 7 feet from the Perspectives, with the speakers almost 9 feet apart. This gives a wide-screen level soundstage, where everything feels more life-sized, yet the Perspectives maintain great center fill, solidity and image specificity. What an amazing design! However, as I just mentioned above, one of my CJ premier 12 mono blocks had to go in for repair. After 22 years of me turning on the power switches with my foot (easier than bending down) one of them stopped working. I'm borrowing a Bryston 4B from my pal until my CJ gets back from the shop. It's been a long time since I bothered testing a solid state amp in my system. (And I used to own a Bryston 4BST for a while, many years ago). Usually what happens once I switch to solid state from the CJ is "wow...the clarity and precision! The grip on the bass! This sounds more accurate, more hi-fidelity!" And I listen amazed for a while. And then slowly I feel less inclined to listen. The CJs go back in and it's like "aahhh, this is why I've stuck with these amps." My pal who is something of a tube guy moved from audio research to using this Bryston (he went through one of his "I'm sick of tube amp hassles" phases), and he finally felt satisfied with solid state. I've been very curious to hear the Joseph Perspectives on solid state in my home as they performed amazing with solid state (Sim Moon mostly) in the store auditions. The Joseph speakers have buttery smooth highs, so it's like they got the most out of solid state amplification - smoothness in the top end, power everywhere else. So I'll see how this goes....
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-14-2020 at 09:35pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete pops, I couldn't get the Thiel out of my system, which is why I will not sell my Thiels :-) I can find speakers that do this or that thing that I like a bit better, but nothing is quite as even-handed as the Thiels. I wrote my impression of my brief listen to the Gibbon X in this thread.In a nutshell: big sound, similar organic/vivid "woody" midrange as the O speakers, but more "standard" without the extra body, size and lushness as the O speakers. Very clear, great soundstaging. But in the set up I heard the bass was overbearing and not well controlled. And it was in a fairly wide open room. I found them promising. The speaker I really want to hear are the Devore Super 9s! Very close to the same size as my Josephs.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-14-2020 at 04:02pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete @donquichotte Sorry, missed your post from a while back. I think I just didn’t get along with the Spendor D7 tweeter or something.Other people have had the same impressions I did when listening to that speaker. I would like very much to hear the D9.2, though. Thanks for the description of the Spendor Classic 100. Very interesting and I could "hear" what you meant through your writing. I continue to be bedeviled by my little Spendor S3/5s, which I hooked up again a couple days ago. They do voices like no other speaker I own, and have a balance that is incredibly satisfying and "right" sounding to my ear, despite the lack of deep bass. Having heard many Harbeth speakers and owned the Harbeth SuperHL5 plus, I can see why some people prefer Spendor, and others the Harbeth. The Spendors have their own magic in the mids that makes everything gorgeous. And to me it doesn’t sound merely like prettified gorgeous, but conjuring some of the organic ease and silky tone I hear from live voices and instruments in real life. They are hooked up to my Eico HF81 amp. This is because one of my Conrad Johnson Premier 12 monoblocks had to go in for repair.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-14-2020 at 09:37pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Well I threw the Bryston amp in to the system and since I had the little Spendors already set up, listening to them last night using my Eico tube amp, I listened via the Spendors. The upshot is that initial listening indicates that I’m experiencing the same thing I always have putting SS in to my system: It helps re-enforce and clarify why I love my tube amps so much :-)
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-15-2020 at 01:37am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete sondeknz I have the famous Eico HF-81 integrated tube amp. This review was part of what made the HF-81 so coveted (although it was already well regarded): https://www.stereophile.com/integratedamps/606eico/index.html I had an SS amp fail on me at one point about 10 years ago and when I asked my pal if he had a spare amp he said "take this one, got it from a garbage but it's supposed to be a classic." It was the Eico. When I put it in the system I was astounded. I couldn't believe how gorgeous the system sounded - huge, rich, vivid, organic, punchy. I had to have one, so I got a nicely refurbished unit that I've owned since then. The Eico HF-81 is just 14W per side. But it's driven every speaker I've put in front of it, including even the notoriously inefficient MBLs (121 model). I wasn't playing at super loud levels though. Also, the Eico doesn't quite have the bass control of a better modern amp, so there is a bit of overhang. However, this actually serves to make most speakers actually sound bigger and deeper in the bass. My Eico makes small speakers sound like bigger speakers! So it's the kind of thing where if you are smitten enough with the midrange and highs of the Eico, and don't mind that your speaker (if it's a bigger speaker) won't quite show it's full bass prowess, then...yeah...the little Eico can sound great on many speakers. Ultimately I use it now and again, but go back to my CJ premier 12s, which do the tube richness thing but with excellent power and control over any speaker. The Leben amp sounded excellent with the Devore O/96s last I heard them. Not the last word in tight bass, but wonderful sound overall.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-16-2020 at 04:20am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete A Tale Of Two Amps: Well. That was quick. As I mentioned I was lent a new Bryston 4B3 amp from a friend while one of my Conrad Johnson monoblocks was being fixed. First time in years that I put a SS amp back in to the main system. I used to own a Bryston 4BST for a while, many years ago, along with my CJ. But it was mostly to have a SS reference when I used to do some speaker reviews. I always preferred the CJs. In went the Bryston and even on the little Spendors I immediately recognized "that sound." Solid state, especially the sound I used to hear from my Bryston amp. "Tight" and "Taught" were the words that immediately came to mind."Squeezed" was another. Bass was firmly in grip, every instrument and voice had excellent solid presence in the soundfield. Buzzing with energy and snap. The scrappy surf guitar parts on B-52s (vinyl) were clean and snappy. Rhythm guitar parts had solidity and energy. This was somewhat promising because if there are any nits to pick with the Joseph Speakers in my system, it’s that from the upper mids upward they can be a bit polite, dynamically. Rock certainly rocks and they are dynamic, but my Thiels are more solid from top to bottom. So I was curious about a beefy SS amp on the Josephs. But still sticking with the Spendors, things I noticed were: the speakers sounded smaller. As if all the energy I’m used to hearing in the bass was tightened and pulled upwards, like putting a girdle on. So it’s like I became acutely aware of a distinct cut off point for the bass frequencies, almost like I could see it as an invisible line appearing just beneath the speakers. "No bass below here." Similarly, the highs were a bit darkened, losing that slight golden airy open glow from the CJs. So, on top, I felt another "line" appear "highs stop here!" Thus I felt like I was "viewing" the sound through a narrower band. I can only surmise this was due to the Bryston putting on a show of control over the speakers. No letting their hair down when Capn’ Bryston is on deck. So the result was a more taught, tight, bouncy, transient-oriented sound.Every instrument sqeezed by the grip of the Bryston in to a slightly smaller space in the soundstage. Though the speakers still disappeared and soundstaged with precision, it didn’t feel as relaxed and natural in doing so. Voices, usually peerless on the Spendors, still sounded good, but to my surprise some of the magic "wow that’s a human being singing right there!" was missing. Voices sounded just harder and tighter, smaller, more obviously a recording. And though I listened for a little while with fascination, it was harder for me to get in to the music. I recognized that sort of "tense" sound that I perceive in typical solid state driven systems vs what I’m used to at home. It was kind of freaking me out that I wasn’t enjoying the Spendors nearly as much as normal, so I switched the Bryston on to the Joseph Perspectives. The Josephs are so suave, so grain free and relaxed, and they disappear so effortlessly, that they didn’t immediately shout "solid state!" with the Bryston. I did notice, again, a particularly solid, tight, punchy feel for the bass, very focused. And guitar parts did take on an added bit of solidity.But as I played more familiar tracks, the SS nature of the sound became more clear. One of my favorite all time albums, Everything But The Girl Amplified Heart, has tracks were distant string sections gently well up in to the song. Here they sounded less beautiful, more grey and steely.The vocals sounded harder, more processed, more electronic in the sibilance. I put on an Italian movie soundtrack that I was listening to just before my CJ died - lots of jazzy funky drumming with surprising horns, vocals, piano, strings etc. The drums were solid with nice kick, snare had pop but not as much as I was expecting..in fact the tonality seemed less "real" than I’m used to, a little too dark. The high hat work though was very vivid and metallic and convincing. The most realistic high hat I’d heard on the system. Then came a part where some luscious strings, distant though very vividly textured, usually appear swelling in from the background, like appearing from behind a curtain. Usually this part just makes me melt it’s so beautiful. But...huh? The strings appeared but not in that uprising tonally gorgeous way. More gray, suppressed, sitting back.The "moment" didn’t happen. Yikes. Then I threw on my new CD, a re-recording of the Conan The Barbarian soundtrack, which has a massive, roaring overture with tons of kettle drums rumbling under your feet. This blew me away when I got it a few weeks ago. Powered by the Bryston, on either the Spendors or the Josephs, the sound was...well...very good but "where is that awe?"What the Bryston did superbly in my system, when it’s precision and grip really paid dividends, was on separating all the instrumental parts especially in the lower mids/upper bass, the power region of the string and lower horn sections. The lines being played by the many different horn sections have never been so clearly rendered. That was really impressive! But I found it just didn’t sound as beautiful and real and natural as I remembered. Anyway, I was able to get my CJ back from repair today and fired them back up. Started with the Spendors. And.... Oh...my....goodness! There it was! I’m NOT crazy! I WAS missing this. The sound was huge, rich, vivid yet relaxed, energetic but not pushy or tense in the least. The speakers just seemed to disappear more. The bass was richer and fuller, the top glowed a bit more. Now the "top" and "bottom" opened up so I was no longer aware of some hard stopping/starting points in the frequency range so the "small speaker" effect was much less pronounced. And...voices! They were back! Now the Spendors were doing that magic - the softness, roundness and richness with voices that made them sound human. Acoustic guitars, drum cymbals, had a luxurious golden harmonic sparkle. Keep in mind, I’m going all audiophile in these descriptions. To the average Joe this may seem like subtle stuff, but the way the sound seemed to expand to fill virtually all my "button pushing" criteria had a profound effect. I could slip in to the sensation of hearing the performer, rather than a recording, in a way that I just couldn’t with the Bryston. I’ve done this comparison many times over the years and it’s always the same. Every time I own, or borrow, a solid state amp I have a hard time sitting in front of my system to listen for very long. It’s like "Yeah, that’s neat...but time to do something else and I’ll just crank it for background music." But with the CJs powering speakers, I’m entranced. It’s luxurious, it does just what I want a high end system to do to keep me in my seat. So, yup, yet another confirmation I’m a tube amp guy and love those darned CJ Premier 12s! (And in no way would I suggest the CJs are some "ultimate" amp. They are like a 25 year old design, maybe older. And no doubt all sorts of attributes can be surpassed by other amps. But they still hold up damned well and have a certain sound that I can’t seem to give up). Cheerio!
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 10-17-2020 at 01:42am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Thanks for reading. This thread is sort of like a "get it off my chest" for any thoughts or continued experiences I'm having. Speaking of such things: With the Joseph Perspectives powered up I was playing some loud, thrashing Duran Duran. The sound was absolutely huge, giant life-sized kick drums and bass, massive spacious image. But I did something I normally do with every speaker, even ones I audition, which is feel the cabinet when some meaty bass was being produced. Just out of curiosity to see how much the cabinet is singing along with the music. Even my Thiels, which have a well braced cabinet, can be easily felt to vibrate with bass frequencies. I'd never felt the Josephs because, I think, their finish is so polished that they pick up fingerprints easily. But putting my hand to feel for vibrations with Duran Duran chugging away and I felt...nothing. Like, literally, no vibration! It was fairly shocking because I'm not sure I've felt such an inert cabinet before. And I guess I didn't expect it because the Josephs are a small speaker putting out big bass. And sure, the Joseph literature on the Perspectives claim: "The acoustic design of the cabinet is very complex and rigid, with multiple bracing to keep the box as silent as possible. This structural rigidity translates into clarity and focus of the highest order. " But I took it with a grain of salt until I actually felt it. Wow! No wonder they are so clean sounding from top to bottom.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 11-01-2020 at 05:16pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Keithr Thanks for letting me know. "strident and wiry" is exactly what I heard from the D7, and another A model in the Spendor line. I'm a bit dubious that the .2 versions would have totally fixed this since it seemed the more forward sound is a deliberate choice in that Spendor design. Then again, the Joseph Perspectives I own can also a bit hot on the top, depending on positioning. However, even when positioned for the "brightest" sound, the highs are still liquid and smooth, not the slightly wiry/strident sound I heard in the Spendors.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 12-21-2022 at 12:55am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete My Perspectives are now at Joseph Audio getting upgraded. While I’m waiting, I’ll just mention some stuff I’ve been fiddling with in my system. I have experimented with all sorts of isolation devices under my Thiel speakers. The Thiel’s sit on a thick shag rug (yeah baby!) overlaying a sprung wood floor. I’d changed my listening position somewhat and, perhaps also due to playing about with different tubes on my amp (some a bit more bottom-heavy), I had a bit of extra bass warmth to work out. I’d tried various things over time. The problem is that I’m super picky about the tone and timbre of my system. It’s pretty much exactly where I want it. Any change to that and..well...for me it’s not worth it. And the issue is virtually every change to the bass frequencies tended to change the tone/timbre of the sound. So things I have tried: Subwoofers (crossed over, w room correction for bass frequencies). I got nice even sound with this, but it took away some punch, and altered the timbre too much. I tried some cheap amazon-bought spring footers. Those worked wonders in terms of decoupling the speakers from the floor. Everything tightened up and the speakers took on a more electrostatic like sound and disappearing act. However I found it lightened the tone too much, and took away some "feel" and palpability to the sound. Part of the sound I’m used to is the interaction of the speakers with the floor, so I can feel the sound more, and tonally I think this gives a feel of more solidity to the sound. Since I highly favor solidity and density, I’m not willing to give that up. I tried the highly lauded Townshend Isolation Bars - spring based again, though much more purpose-designed and also the bars didn’t raise the speakers much at all. I was hoping to get some of the tightening up, disappearing act that I got with the cheaper spring footers, but better and less tonal change. And, that’s pretty much what I got. The tone didn’t get to light-in-the-loafers. The speakers disappeared somewhat better. But ultimately I returned them because I found the tone changed too much, the sound seemed to soften somewhat, I still lost some room feel, and felt less engaged. For the heck of it I also tried the Primeacoustic RX7 Recoil Stabilzer platforms under the speakers. More foam-based with a metal shell upon which sat the speakers. This too isolated the speakers from the floor somewhat, but didn’t seem to have much effect on the sound - just if anything made it a little more soft/muddy for some reason. I also tried a few Primeacoustics bass traps. Didn’t really do anything. I’d actually bought a second version, larger which may have had more effect, but it was a pain-in-the-arse because it required lots of assembly. I couldn’t be bothered. So..finally...I got around to trying some Isoacoustic Gaia 2 isolators. I’m really late to the party with those. One reason is that I actually had some isoacoustic pucks left over from building an isolation base for my turntable. I’d tried the four of them under one speaker, didn’t think I heard anything I cared for. So I followed through with the Townshend stuff which seemed to be rated even higher than the isoacoustics for decoupling. (Plus...I’d done my own experiments measuring the vibration isolation properties of the Townshend springs vs the Isoacoustic pucks I had, and the Townshends provided far superior decoupling). What I was looking for, ideally, was to get enough isolation beneath the speakers such that the bass would tighten up, they’d disappear some more, but not SO much that I lose any sense of room feel and palpability to the sound that happens when I fully decoupled with spring footers. I figured perhaps the Isouacoustic Gaia just might be that that 1/2 way point. And...that is pretty much what I seem to be getting! With the Gaia’s installed, the bass tightened up pretty nicely, the speakers did vanish a bit more from top to bottom, a bit more space around instruments/voices, but the speakers still have some density and punch as well. I’m still getting used to it, evaluating if I’m going to keep the Gaias under the speakers or not. It did slightly change the tone of the speakers and I’m not sure how I’ll get along with that. I need more listening. But so far I’m quite impressed with the product. Plus, I have another secret weapon in my tweak box. But this post has already gone on too long so I’ll save it for another post....
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 12-04-2020 at 04:18pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete @goldprintaudio Thanks! Geeze, you get to regularly hear among my top 2 speaker brands. Lucky you! I still haven’t let go of the idea of owning the Devore O/96s. One reason I didn’t get them was I feel they need at least an 8 foot listening distance to cohere, and that was tough in my room. However I recently figured out that I could in fact achieve that listening distance, so they are back in the running. I realize I have a bunch of stuff I can sell (e.g. I don’t think I’ll ever get around to using my subwoofers and associated equipment). I still feel like I need more than one speaker around - I like to switch to keep things fresh so I still have the Thiel 2.7s. I figured it was the Thiels that I’d keep permanently as my touchstone speaker. However, the Joseph speakers are starting to become my reference. If I could get an in-home trial of the Devores it could convince me to sell my Thiels as well to afford the Devores. Anyway, that’s just dreaming for now.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 12-04-2020 at 07:40pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete @goldprintaudio Interesting about getting a closer listening distance out of the Devores.I really tried several times both with the 96 and 93s during auditions, altering listening position, changing position/toe in of speakers etc, and every time I got under 8 feet the sound would darken somewhat, lose some snap, image less well, etc. Yet I note that one reviewer of the 93 said he ended up 5.5 feet from the 93s! I think someone once mentioned that you can play with angling the O series speakers for closer placement (e.g. something under the front, to angle it a bit back?). Is there any particular solution you’ve found? The O/96 seem to need a good size room/breathing space around them. My room is 15’ deep and 13’ wide, though with good acoustic treatment and a wide room opening to the side in to a hallway. My speakers are typically pulled around 4 feet out from the back wall. Thus far I haven’t had any bass problems with a floorstanding speaker in the room, so I’d hope the O/96 could work. I’m loving the Joseph speakers for their combo of relaxed resolution and vividness. But I also love the type of warmth, body and textural presence of the Devores. (I get a tiny version of that from my Spendor S3/5s) BTW, what was your opinion of the Thiels?
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 12-05-2020 at 10:44pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Thanks for the input bjesien! Sounds promising. Agree the O/93s are a wonderful speaker. Unique sounding (except for the bigger version of course).
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 03-24-2023 at 01:16am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Yeah, I know. Sorry. I've been distracted by all sorts of stuff. I'll get back to the Perspectives as soon as I can. They are sounding great!
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-27-2022 at 08:02pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Thanks for the info, melm.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 03-19-2021 at 06:27pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete ebm, Not the longest. But maybe the wordiest ;-)
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 03-19-2021 at 06:31pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete keithr Yeah I was going to guess it would be at least $25k. But who knows?Wouldn't really want to jump the gun on John's pricing. As for the Fyne speakers, they have sort of intrigued me. I heard them briefly I think at the last audio show I attended. I really like the styling but wasn't blown away by what I heard. Also the measurements I've seen thus far weren't too stupendous.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 03-19-2021 at 04:16pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete The Devore O/96 just got a rave review in the April issue of Hi-Fi News. 10 out of 10 (paired with Jadis amps). It's funny how long it took for the english press to get hold of these speakers! Also, in a brief bio/interview with John Devore it turns out he's working on an updated version of the O/96 using "trickle-down" technology from the O Reference speakers. The working name of the new speaker is the O/Bronze. Some of the O Reference components moving down in to the O/Bronze will be the cast bronze woofer basket and horn for the tweeter and super tweeter, and some "new stuff going on inside the cabinet." I find that very exciting, though l'm expecting it to be priced beyond my means. I still have a jones for the Devore O/96 and I'm selling off a bunch of hi-fi stuff I haven't been using. If I accrue enough money to buy new O/96s I would do an in-home audition first. Though other areas I may put the money in to would be upgrading the Joseph Perspectives to the graphene version (unfortunately, now the upgrade is more expensive than it was when originally offered), and I've toyed with upgrading to a Conrad Johnson Art amps.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-13-2022 at 07:23pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Hey folks! Been a while! I can't believe this thread is 4 years old now! Devore is now releasing a scaled down version of the O/96 called the "O/baby." More on that in a moment. I had held on to the idea of possibly getting a pair of second hand O/96s but that never happened. For one thing: the pandemic had quite an impact on my income. For the same reason I hadn't upgraded my Joseph speakers to the graphene version yet. But I did get around to selling lots of equipment that I wasn't using (e.g. subwoofers 'n stuff) and I figured I could put that toward upgrading the Josephs or...since I can't afford the bigger O/96s, I've been very intrigued by the O/baby speakers. Small enough to easily lift in and out of the system, big enough to apparently have some nice scale of sound. I'm really looking forward to reviews and user reports on those speakers. Plus I have good vibes for Devore and wish the company continued success. That said..they've finally updated their website to include the O/baby which I think is starting to ship: https://devorefidelity.com/devore-fidelity-speakers/orangutan-series/o-baby-speakers/ I have to say that I'm personally disappointed with the standard finish. I think they still look nice - Devore always has a good eye and sense of style. But...ugh...light oak! For me that's barely above black ash in terms of woods and finishes that would appeal to me. Aesthetics - that is of course what appeals to me subjectively - is high on my list of priorities and the O/96 is one of my all time favorites in that regard. I love the varieties of wood grain combined with the form. The pictures of earlier O/babys looked great: I thought "yay, nice wood grain and on the darker side" which I like. I don't really like being super conscious of speaker drivers and prefer a darker front on a speaker, so the above are excellent. But I guess those weren't viable as a standard finish. Here's the new oak finish: Ah well, I have to say the standard oak finish just isn't doing it for me and a different finish would I presume be a significant upcharge essentially defeating my purpose of getting a cheaper, more affordable O series speaker. If I hear them I may be still seduced enough to consider buying a pair in the future. But,hey, all this is of course subjective and they still look pretty nice. Anyone else have an opinion on the looks of these new speakers? (And if someone gets a listen to the O/babys please report here or elsewhere on the forum. I will certainly do so. The story seems to be from John Devore that he figured out a way to use some of the parts he'd bought for the O/reference, e.g. access to those super tweeters. So the O/baby actually uses a super tweeter as it's tweeter in a slightly horn loaded fashion. I'm really curious how this will work out in terms of the quality of sound. One of the things I love about the big O/96 is that they sound "big" from bottom to top, so sounds in the tweeter region also have substantial body. I wonder if the O/baby can manage to retain that character using the much smaller tweeter).
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-04-2023 at 10:17pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Ok sorry for the delay. Here's my report on my upgraded Perspective 2s: I'd sold almost all my extra audio gear over the past several years, which went in to my 'audio funds' that I could use for upgrades or a new purchase. Part of that went to the purchase of a Benchmark LA4 preamp, which I love (but I'm not selling my CJ Premier 16LS2 preamp any time soon!). A new Transrotor motor controller for my turntable. Lots of tubes when I was tube rolling (and grabbing spares for back up), new Bluesound NODE (replacing my raspberry Pi which was giving me intractable problems). And a very expensive Lumagen Pro video processor, which I had to buy to replace my old one which died (and which would also allow me to join the world of 4K HDR images on my projector). Anyway, I had a final sum left over and my mind tossed "should I use it to grab some Devore O/baby speakers...because I've always wanted some Devore speakers. Or do I scratch the upgrade itch on the Perspectives?" On one hand, my original Perspectives sounded so damned good, why wouldn't I just enjoy them as is, and grab the Devores? Then I'd have speakers from my 3 favorite brands. Done! However, a few things pushed me toward upgrading the Perspectives. Number one is that I'd been selling off gear because I had too much. And so the idea of bringing in yet another pair of speakers in to my stable was going against that general goal of paring down. The other was: I really don't like the bright oak finish on the O/babys. I much prefer a darker more discrete wood finish. The other was really typical audiophile-brain stuff: As much as I love the Perspectives, I'd always wonder "could it be better? Even a slighter better Perspectives sound close to end-game speakers for me." Ah what fools we are! And I liked what I'd read about the sonic changes from the originals to the graphene version: smoother slightly more laid back high frequencies, better bass performance. So I rolled the dice and sent off my perspectives for the upgrade a while back, and I've had them in my system since mid January. The thing is, for the last year I've had my Thiel 2.7s set up because I started tweaking my system, especially with tube rolling, and also room treatment, and needed the speakers to be kept as a constant reference. I got the Thiels sounding so bloody good that while the Perspectives were away I thought "oh boy, I wonder if the Perspectives will be able to keep up now." When I plunked the upgraded Perspectives in to my system they definitely sounded excellent, though it had been so long since I heard my originals I really couldn't say with confidence what was that different/better. And, yeah, I had the Thiels dialed in so well the Perspectives didn't immediately knock my socks off compared to them. So it's taken a while of dialing in the Perspectives, room position, seating position, and especially trying various things underneath them (e.g. Isoacoustic Gaia, various footers, a bass that I built). Over time I made progress. So at this point how do they sound? Unfriggin' believable! I have them well out from the back wall, spread pretty wide apart, raised on a bass I made, and powered by my CJ Premier 12 140w/side monoblocks. I found the sound really came together when I switched to the KT120 tubes on my CJs, which added that bass depth and control and gravity, and fattened out and enlarged the sound somewhat. The result is a truly CinemaScope soundstaging and imaging experience, barely hinted at in my store demos of the Perspectives. It's just wall-melting, with palpable, clean clear tonally gorgeous instruments and voices appearing everywhere in the immense stage. Bass is tonally controlled, and can also be floor-rumbling deep. I actually just came back from my friend's house where I played some of my records on the speakers he has at the moment: $65,000USD Estelon speakers, giant Hegel amps etc. I sometimes visit my friend to hear equipment he's reviewing with a little trepidation, because though I will always prefer my own system, dialed as it is to my own tasted, I'll often hear certain things his review stuff does better, then I'll see if I can get some more of that in my system. Anyway, the Estelon system WAS very impressive! Really precise images carved out in very well-described space, with an excellent sense of density and palpability. If played really loud, I'll bet they can sound quite realistic (as far as that goes). But when I came home and spun the same stuff on my system, I was actually even more blown away. The Perspectives kept up surprisingly well in terms of the revelation of detail, didn't have quite the density (giant solid state amps will help with that as well in my friend's system), but other than that the presentation was far more open, detached from the speakers, massive, and almost psychedelic, as well as to my ears tonally more "correct" and gorgeous. Playing some Depeche Mode on both speakers, the Estelon system had a very precise imaging of some starting bass synth pulses, very dense, that solid state "grip" and hint of low bass grunt. On the other hand, on the Perspectives (again, powered by classic CJ tube amps remember) those same notes sounded nicely described as well, and were a bit bigger, rounder, and had a bit more "reach" as in a sense of "room feel." In other words, the bass synth notes on the Estelon system were tight fisted and controlled so they sat back in the mix, where the Perspectives bass had more "feel it" sensation with each bass note, which for me connected me more with the music. Perspectives verses my Thiels? Pretty much the same as I've described before. The Perspectives have no right to sound so huge and rich given their size. But the Thiels sound yet a bit bigger and richer, and also create a massive soundstage. The imaging sounds a bit more clean and fully detached from the Perspectives though. Also, while the Perspectives can really slam for their size, the Thiels with their larger cabinet size and 3-way design, with an 8" woofer, can still sound a bit more solid an authoritative, especially for bass and drums. The combo of doing most things really well, plus a higher level of smoothness and tonal finesse , goes to the Perspectives. So how much better are they than the originals? Still can't say for sure. But I do know I'm sometimes getting sound presentation beyond what I remember hearing before in my system. So, that's where I am with the Perspectives at this point. Very happy.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 08-13-2021 at 03:31pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete I’m saving up some money, selling some gear, will either put it towards upgrading my Joseph Perspectives or a pair of Devore O/96. (Keeping the Perspectives)
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-19-2022 at 11:09pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Much obliged, metaldetektor !!! I'm so happy that this thread actually led you to a satisfying speaker purchase. That's the best case scenario that happens when we audiophiles share our impressions of gear. I was very intrigued by the O/Bronze, but the exclusivity (low production number) and price puts it way out of my financial zone.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-15-2022 at 02:04am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete That's exciting. Let us know ghasley!!!
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-15-2022 at 03:24pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Hey fsconicsmith! That's good to know. I had a similar situation with Jeff Joseph when I was contemplating ordering some new Joseph Audio Perspectives. I really wanted a darker brown color and Jeff sent me some pictures of speakers in production that had the darker wood finish I might want, and I could select those. A downturn in finances at that moment meant I couldn't buy the Perspectives new as I'd hoped. But about a year later my dealer was selling some recently acquired floor demo Perspectives to make way for the new Graphene model, so I got a good deal on those. It turned out they were the very pair that Jeff sent a photo of, so I got the finish I wanted as well!
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-15-2022 at 11:22pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Thanks fellas!
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-18-2022 at 03:29am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Yes I have lots of faith in John's aesthetic taste. I'm sure the O/baby look very nice in person. I haven't seen a Devore model yet that didn't look great up close.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-20-2022 at 08:09pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Thanks pryso. That kind of reminds me: At one point several years ago there were some posts by a fellow who I believe was associated with the early development of Joseph Audio speakers. It may have even been Richard Modifari who patented the Infinite Slope crossover later used in Joseph speakers (or someone associated with him or those early days?) The gist was that this fellow claimed to have moved on to some more highly developed speaker design, perhaps the crossover, which he claimed yielded results in sonic realism well beyond previous attempts. I'd expect it would have occurred in some Joseph Audio thread or another but I've never been able to track those posts down again. Anyone remember this?
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-21-2022 at 10:36pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete pryso, Thanks. Yes Jeff took over the "infinite slope" technology from Modifari and used it in JA speakers. From reading between the lines - technical measurements, DIY discussions etc - I get the feeling he's actually slightly departed from the Infinite Slope design and is using some more gradual crossover slopes (especially in the new graphene model with the tweeter, I think). I'm not sure, and I'd love to know, how different the crossovers really are at this point from most other speaker crossovers. I know the original Infinite Slope crossovers were really steep, and The Audio Critic even raved about early results for the speakers.
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-22-2022 at 01:09am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete ghasley, about this: 9) Right out of the box, they sound like speakers taken right out of the box. 30 minutes in they began to smooth out kindof like slowly connecting the woofer to the tweeter until they blended nicely. I'm VERY curious as to your listening distance from the O/baby. As I've written in this thread, I found both the 93 and 96 needed at least 8 feet for the sound to cohere and snap together. If you can eventually test some closer listening distance to see how the O/baby fare, or at what distance they stop sounding right or coherent, that would be very informative. No rush. Enjoy!
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-22-2022 at 08:21pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete I used to own the Meitner Bidat DAC, with the remote volume control knob (and it could drive an amplifier directly). It was the "in thing" for a while and it certainly had it’s charms. (I ultimately preferred my Meridian CDP over it, at the time. The Meitner sounded bigger and more spacious and rich, though a bit dark. The Meridian sounded more densely focused, solid, and a bit more ’live.’).
prof OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 3,450 posts 04-25-2022 at 06:54pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Burnin' burnin' burnin'..... :-)

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