Compression Horns for Far field listening

Once you hear a FR/Compression , you'll never go back to traditional speakers.
How those xover concepts lived on so so long, is a mystery to me.

Lowther has been making full range drivers of high efficiency since the late 1940s.

I understand the allure; but no full range driver ever made is really full range. The best I've seen doing the highs is the 6" PHY driver but you're doing really well to get anywhere near 40Hz with any 'full range' driver. You need subs to sort things out on the bottom. The problem is you have that bass energy that the driver is dealing with even though its not being reproduced. It can cause excursion on the cone which can result in Doppler Effect distortion at higher frequencies.

There's no free lunch.


BTW you might want to look into the Tangband 1772; in a ported cabinet they can go down to about 50hz and the efficiency is apparently higher than the driver you're working with.

Here is the video - Tune Audio Marvel with Fostex FE208EZ and Horn Mid-tweeter

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WOW factor high, Probably, in fact this is the best sound ive ever heard comming from a speaker.
Yet LP, nota  cd, 
Richard Gray just sold me me a Philips 777 turn table, and just boughta  huge stack of records off ebay, amazon <MINT> of a few classical recordings. 
LP's are superior to cd.
Yet this FR/Horn  blows any trad/conventional speaker away.
That set up was true (not fake>> High Fidelity (old Philips Labs term) 
I somehow missed that YT vid, thanks for posting, lets me know thats what i expect when i set up my FR8 + compression horn. 
WIW can 't wait, 1st have to recover from my upgrades on the Seas Thors @ $2200, now heaed to RG;'s <,chop shop>> parts will be dumped on ebay for a  nice loss, The tweets are brand new @ $700. 
anyone interested please let me know. W18's perform same as new. xovers all Mundorf top of line SESGO/EVO SG. 
The cabinets i plan to house  the FR8 with the horn sitting atop. 
At least I can salvage the cabinets, = lessens the pain of the <,upgarde>> loss. 

Fostex FE208EZ is built to work with a tweeter. It doesn’t have extended HF and low-mid range dip. But I’m not sure if it can work with simple ported box.
Most of FR drivers have extended HF and as result they have recessed low-mid range. To get a balanced mid-range FR driver needs a front horn that amplifies low-mid range


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Been watching a few, well there is only a few vids of FR in action on YT, One one Lowther vid,  one YTer comments , saying he has built many FR speakers, then goes to list them all, , states FR   top end will require  a  tweeter,,Which is my exp  with this 6.5 DavidLouis,  
having mentioned to Richard Gray the fac most of my classical listenings do not require the need for highest fq range (such as jazz, blues have drum snares, cymbols, = high end demanded) he did say the need for a tweeter is for <<ambience>> in the classical. 
Now that was the key word/concept that helped me understand the need for the Tweet/TIHorn. 
Which i have no issues with addinga  tweeter. 
I've been listening to my 6.5  and have come to the conclusion, FR with or w/o tweet is the listening experience i've been searching for past 20 years. 
I was stuck on  following the traditional/conventional xover /lower than say 91db model. 
THis style of voicing music will not in any shape/form meet my criterion as <,High Fidelity>> at least not with a  tube amp. 
Each  style of speaker has its own characteristics, = ambience. 
Tradition xover speakers I have tagged as << the wet blanet>> group. all of them next to FR will sound like a  wet blanket is thrown over the speaker.
For me there is no contest, FR will beat out any lower than 91 db/xover speaker in the world. 
FR + TI Horns are the future of the speaker industry. 
In 10 years labs such as ScanSpweak/Seas will shut down all production on any under 91/xover variety drivers, = 99% of their inventory. 
The future is FR/Compression drivers. 
I can see it, feel it, hear it. 
Its just a  matter on time.
Hopefully my series of YT vids will give audiophiles a chance to hear what a  FR/Compression Tweeter  is all about. 
My mantra is <<sensitivity is everything in speakers>> if the Sens is not over 92, just forget it.
Another way of saying is <,if its not FR/Compression, just forget it>> 
Those boxed types we all grew up with since the 1960's, til today((??!!??!!)  have been replaced by FR/Compression drivers.
Once you hear a  FR/Compression , you'll never go back to traditional speakers. 
How those xover concepts lived on so so long, is a mystery to me.
You;'ve been duped, scamed. 
Seas sells a  FR, $800, each. I would never pay that kind of money, when i can get a  pair under $500.

Here is the video - Tune Audio Marvel with Fostex FE208EZ and Horn Mid-tweeter
https://youtu.be/JCLuH_NeVgI

Fostex FE208EZ is built to work with a tweeter. It doesn’t have extended HF and low-mid range dip. But I’m not sure if it can work with simple ported box.
Most of FR drivers have extended HF and as result they have recessed low-mid range. To get a balanced mid-range FR driver needs a front horn that amplifies low-mid range.

Now i mentioned to Richard, classical really does not have much highs,

Nope. Classical has just as much in the highs as anything else.

The tweeter does not act so much as to add high frequency content, rather, it seems to smooth out the frequency response and make the full range driver seem less peaky and harsh.  

I've seen some where the tweeters actually fired to the rear, since the main speaker (in this case a 6" PHY did quite well past 15KHz but like any FR drive is beamy. The rear firing tweeters opened up the sweet spot a bit and corrected the room energy if you are off axis.

The exotic dealer in my area, Deja Vu Audio, makes custom designed systems, including systems built around full range drivers.  Quite often, the full range driver is utilized full range (i.e., no low-pass crossover network feeding the driver) with a tweeter that comes in way on top 5 to 10 kHz crossover points (typically first-order crossover and an L-pad attenuator).  I've heard several of the full range systems before and after the tweeter is added; I always prefer them with the tweeter.  The tweeter does not act so much as to add high frequency content, rather, it seems to smooth out the frequency response and make the full range driver seem less peaky and harsh.  

If you desire the best look at Cessaro Wagner 1 one of the best sounding horns out there.

What is a full range driver are you talking about?

The compression tweeter is a good choice for any room they are very clean with very low distortion.


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Yes The Compression horn wteet is really exactly what i was looking for
When i opened  one of the longest running topics on Audgon back in the year 2000 <,Speaker Shootout>>> I was attempting to get all ideas on which speaker was ideal for my needs, fora  Jadis ORch Ref amp.
I chose the SEAS Thor, lived with it past 20 yrs...
Now i realize the true ideal, <<marriage made in heaven>>  REALLY is the 
Full Range + Compression TI tweet.
Just spoke with Richard Gray this morning, he explained the whole deal to me, in easy language.
The 8 inch ( was going witha  10 FR , but really my room is only 10x12 and listen low volume = 10 over kill) will be more than enough for my needs in bass.mids as i listen to only classical, not much in lows/highs.
Richard  advised i do not purcahse <boutique> caps, Mundorf SESGO ,,for what? as the TI Horn will not sound any dif witha  $10 cap vs a  $80 SESGO cap.
So  the 8 inch FR by DavidLouis will run direct to amp, <Defy has double speaker posts> and the TI Horn which has binding posts on the tweet,  so i can choose either 1uf, 1.2 uf or most likelt will go with the 1.5Uf cap.
Since the horn will sit on top of 8 inch cabinet, easy to swap out the the cap value to whatever i think is best for the cd/LP  in the listening session. 
Now i mentioned to Richard, classical really does not have much highs,,so lets go lower in the cap uf, so as to capture more  mid highs,, Although the Horn will not get much voicing on classical, its the <<ambience>> which the horn will pick up and voice.
This was the key idea i was trying  understand.
Rock and jazz has  more going on in the ipper registers, yet its the ambience of the upper range in classical which the horn will pick up on.
Finally after 20 yrs i have found  what i was looking for..
Full Range + TI Horn, match made in heaven. 
Will post YT vid , maybe late June on the project.
The Thor upgrade 2 months ago = $2200 put my audio budget near broke N busted.
I will be dumping all components as parts on ebay, tweets are brand new if anyone is interested, Mid woofers work as new
priced to sell
xovers have all silver gold Mundorf caps

Why not purchase a perfected open baffle speaker like a       Spatial audio labs x5 speaker , the Beyma amp tweeter- midrange 
driver is far more uniform in a horn loaded Wave guide.

The compression tweeter is a good choice for any room they are very clean with very low distortion.

Ok just read a  topic on DIY site, xover over lap points, Guy wanted to cross mid woofer at 5K and tweet at 4k,, some said it might be ok, if both blend welll, others said not <<ideal>>
So Now i gota  clue how i want the 8 FR and TI Compression horn to cross.
I want the 8 inch to go as high as possible, with Horn capturing the upper mids/highs. 
I listen to classical music  which the midwoofer (FR 8O does a better voicing vs the TI Horn, which can sound thin. 
Got it, what i need to do is test a  single value cap on each driver and see where sound is best. 

one has gain at say 100-120 db level, I listen at low db level, sitting 8 ft from speaker , near field blare is not going to be a issue.
when i move to arizona, hopefully i will have a bigger listening room, = can use a bit more gain.

It sounds like you might have to pad the tweeter down a bit as well. Most full range drivers are not as efficient as horn loaded compression drivers!

You’ll need an inductor at least (for a 6db/oct slope), to block the highs from the 8" driver.     http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter1.html            Choose parts and a slope, via this, for the horn (1uF @ 8 Ohms = 17,000 Hz @6db/oct):  https://www.v-cap.com/speaker-crossover-calculator.php   You'll probably want a higher order than 2nd (6db/oct), for the horn.                        Give Madisound the driver specs and they can design a crossover, to fit your needs.     https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/crossovers-and-parts/                                             You’ll be needing a way to attenuate the horn, to match the 8's lower SPL.

For best results use a proper crossover so the full range driver isn't making the high frequencies.


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Yes this is  what we need to figure out, 
Which value cap will we employ on the 8 inch FR?? 


The Horn  requires  either a  1uf or 1.2uf. 
Mundorf only makes a  1uf and 1.6 in the cap i want. SESGO cap.,,ohh look i now see they offer a  1.5 SESGO
So employinga   1uf vs 1.5, which allows more lower fq's to pass?
I never can remember how uf values work out.

Your seller is right.
He is correct abouta  TI Horn at near field,, <,IF>> one  has gain at say 100-120 db level, I listen at low db level, sitting 8 ft from speaker , near field blare is not going to be a  issue.
when i move to arizona, hopefully i will have a  bigger listening room, = can use a  bit more gain. 
I HATE  high db level, even if the speaker is the very best in the world.
so nera field  blare = no issue

@atmasphere,  +1

The seller does not speak good english, what i think he is trying to get across is that his TI horn may not be ideal match for a small room acoustics.
Anyone have experience with TI Horns can chime in please.
The TI Horn will sit on top of a 8 inch Full Range.
Is this considered a 2 way??

Yes.
The directivity of a horn can be quite useful in a smaller room. When you get reflections from the side walls, when they reach the ear they are interpreted as harshness due to the short delay time. The directivity of a horn can reduce the sidewall reflections resulting in smoother sound.


For best results use a proper crossover so the full range driver isn't making the high frequencies.

Your seller is right.