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Comparison: Cardas Neutral Ref vs. Goertz MI2 or 3

I would appreciate some input on a comparision of the relative qualities/benefits of Cardas Neutral Reference and Alpha Core Goertz MI2 or MI3 speaker cables.

I am in the middle of a speaker cable search for the following system:
Muse 9 Signature Generation 4 cd/dvd
Muse 3 Signature pre
BAT Vk500 250wpc amp
Alon V MkII upgraded to all alnico (Circe) drivers
Cardas Golden Reference balanced ic's

Unfortunately, my run is 16 ft or 5M, and the Alon's need to be tri-wired, usually with a heavier gauge wire to LF and the same (lighter) gauge wires to MF and HF. Therefore, this venture is not inexpensive.
I have a set of Alon's Black Orpheus and I am currently using tri-wired CC89259 with the quad version on the bottom.
I am familiar with the differences between Cardas ic's, having tried them all before selecting the Gold Ref., so I sort of know what to expect with the Neutral Ref speaker cables.
What I am interested in are any suggestions regarding a choice between these two, and answers to questions like, does the accuracy of the Goertz come with any penalties like a "hard" midrange, compared to the Neutral Ref? If I use the Goertz, I would probably consider MI3 to LF, and MI2 to MF and HF. With the Cardas, I would probably do an internal bi-wire run to MF and HF, and a single run to LF.
thanks for your help - Tim
mitch2
8 responses Add your response
pops
2,273 posts
 
Mitch, I haven't had cardas in my system but I own Goertz M2's. Between my classe and thiel 3.6 I get punchy bass, a smooth fat midrange, nice, clear and fairly extended highs. Imaging is very good. The midrange is anything but hard, it's rich sounding. Not as much air as MIT 750+. Also the MIT's have a better sense of decay which I believe gives the soundstage a little more air. All of my ic's are reference MIT so Goertz might perform better with a different setup. However, the goertz still sounds very nice but the MIT is better under my circumstances. Hope that gives you some insight.
wdi
40 posts
 
I also have not tried the Cardas, but am using the Goertz MI-2 and am quite satisfied with it. I don’t consider the Goertz to have a hard midrange, but then compared to the Cardas…perhaps; but I would guess that you might be comprising elsewhere instead. There's an interesting article that's been over on Soundstage (old, but good) by Greg Weaver that talks about what to expect from different speaker cable geometries. I agree with his assessment of the Goertz cables, except that I’ve never noticed the roll-off in the lowest frequencies; but maybe my system isn’t linear down that low anyway. Here’s the link if you’re interested:

http://www.soundstage.com/pf02.htm
mitch2 OP
3,968 posts
 

Wdi, thanks for the link. I also had not previously heard about a low bass roll of using Goertz. Maybe that is why they recommend minimum cable sizes. Anyway, I appreciate thd responses to my post. -Tim
mikesinger
572 posts
 
you are in a tough spot....your alons are pretty revealing of anything in front of them...i have the model II's and i use different combination of speaker cables ( mit 750 plus s3 on top and van den hul revealation hybrid on the bottom.

i have tried tara, az, ps audio,etc. ( the van den hul is a awesome bottom end cable). i am still looking for a top end cable - i will hold off till i get my pre-amp back.
my current interconects are straightwire crescendo.

while at the ces show i spoke with carl (from alon) and the black orpheaus is still preferred speaker cable- and in some cases just reterminate them back into single spades for single runs. i havent tried the black orpheaus but i was very impressed with what i heard at the show on his proteus system.

a suggestion would be the new soundstring cables - carl was using their interconnectsn and power cords.

i heard the entire soundstring ensemble with alon speakers ( herron amps & pre& dcs converter)- and the system was the standout for the show imo ( it was a real world system that sounded great).

you may want to ask carl about the cables- i think they are pretty good and they are reasonably priced- they are one of the few cables i would try on the alons.

hope that helps..

mike
mikesinger
572 posts
 
forgot to reccomend the discovery speaker cables... carl used to used them not to long ago. they are a very neutral cable on the slightly warm side of neutral.

mike
mitch2 OP
3,968 posts
 
Thanks for the recommendations Mike, I have been interested in the Soundstrings, but had not considered Discovery. I have tried several different cables (but nothing real high end due to run length and tri-wire $$$$). At this point the three best were:

Black Orpheus tri-wire: The most musical, decent air around instruments,deep bass, clear highs, maybe just a touch lacking in that lower midrange warmth, especially noticable on vocals. Overall, still probably the best I have used in my system.

DIY CC89259: 3 runs, with LF using the quad version. Also very good. Tough call compared to the Black Orpheus. Very neutral, great tonality, not quite as much "air" as BO. Tight, fairly deep bass. Not quite as smooth on top as BO, but NOT harsh or grainy. Could live with these for awhile, but will probably ultimately upgrade.

DH Labs Q10 LF and double run of T14 for MF and HF: These were surprisingly good, very dynamic but just slightly "hot" due to the silver coating (I believe). Clear as a bell. Sounded great with strings. Good for rock music. I did live with these for a while, but replaced them with the Black Orpheus.

I have some Neutral Reference on the way to try. I hope I like them.

Tim
mikesinger
572 posts
 
let me know how you like it....

btw, great refinsh on the v's...they look great.

if you ever want to move those...let me know !!

mike
mitch2 OP
3,968 posts
 
Thanks Mike, for the kind words, but since I have added all alnico drivers top to bottom, and the sound anchor bases, I think I would have to blow my budget to beat them. I have some Cardas binding posts I plan to install, but I haven't decided what to do about internal wiring, which I plan to improve at the time I do the binding posts, since I will be soldering those wires to the posts. I will probably upgrade the wire from the posts to the crossovers, and stay with Carl's wire from the crossovers to the drivers. Sort of depends on what wire I finally end up with. I have extra Black Orpheus and extra 89259 to work with. Finally, I am also considering a crossover upgrade, but may wait on that.
-Tim
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