Meech- the imaging is so damn good with the TV's, once you get them, you won't NEED a center channel!
Trelja- have NO idea what this AR TDS 202 thing is you are talking about... |
Thanks for clarifying the driver Israel. And, congratulations on producing such a fantastic speaker! I don't believe there is a better speaker at $1200.
From my audition of the Triumph UHS, I would say you would be a very happy camper pairing them with your SET, Meech33. My friend's goal was to find a good match for his lower powered integrated amplifier. Although this amplifier is rated at 25 wpc, it really is quite close to an SET. Finding a loudspeaker that would play at a normal volume for him(and he listens at quite low volumes) without having the volume up to 90% proved to be a challenge. However, I believe the Coincidents proved to be the easiest loudspeaker that he came across. There was no question the amplifier could drive them to pretty high volumes.
I certainly hope the Victorys I listened to were broken in Sutts, but you never know. Yes, long break - in times were always a complaint when it comes to Coincident, but if they are any worse than any other, what can we do? Although I have not heard the Total Victorys, many say they are a special product.
By the way, I will discuss this in another thread soon, but the AR TDS 202 is something anyone with a lower powered amplifier should definitely try if their loudspeakers are taxing the amp. I am not sure how it works, but this passive(yes, passive with a capital P) device DEFINITELY ups the volume quotient considerably. As an example, with the TDS unit in place, it had the Green Mountain Europas producing the same volume at the amp's 40% setting as it did at 90% without the unit! Absolutely astonishing. |
Thanks for the info Israel! |
The Tri Sig UHS uses a proprietary woofer manufactured be SEAS, not a Vifa.
Coincident does offer a Triumph Sig UHS center channel that sells for $595US. |
Thanks everyone. This info is greatly appreciated. My budget will only allow me to get the Triumph Sigs at this time. According to Trelja, I don't think I'll be dissapointed. I think my ultimate goal is to get the Triumphs now, hold on to them for about 3 years, while saving up the money for the Total Victory's. I think this will make a killer HT rig also (using the Triumphs as surrounds). I refuse to spend $1500 on Isreals center channel. I just don't see the value in a $1500 center channel. I'd rather see if he can sell me a single Triumph for about $500 to use as a center.
I definately want to get into SET amps. Although I occasionally listen to large orchestral music, I think the high sensitivity of these speakers will allow the SET to sing. I thought about Bi-amping whichever speakers I get from Israel. I spoke to him already. He said that he could put dual binding post on any of his speakers. I'll probably use a SET on the mid-highs and a higher powered Push-Pull by the same manufacturer for the bass.
Wish me luck.
thanks again. |
Trelja- interesting that you mention the Triumph's- they are the one Coincident speaker I have NOT heard or owned!
I used to have the Victory's in a 10'x16' second-bedroom dedicated listening room- they are fabulous in a smaller room. I also had Coincident Super Eclipses in that room, and they were also excellent, although with the more prodigous bass response vs the Victory's, when pushed on bass heavy material I had to be careful (I live in a condo after all!). The main difference b/w the 2 was detail retrieval- superior with the Victory, and they can be driven with less watts as well, only you will give it up in deeper bass response to the Super E's- there are always tradeoffs as you know so well.
Further on the Victory's, they are a very good speaker in the right application, and unfortunately, I have noticed they have occasionally received short shrift over the years here at the Gon and sometimes have not sold as quickly used as the other models- totally underserved. The thing with the Victory's (and ALL of Izz's speakers) is breakin- crucial- and long, but once complete- look out. Some have accused the Victory of being 'thin' in the mids. I must disagree- once broken in, and with the right amplification (any harsh SS need not apply), they are full-bodied and fleshed out yet still very neutral.
The main reason I moved to the TV's was due to moving the system to the 20'x20' main room in the condo. I tried the Victorys' out here, but way too light on the deep bass considering the room size (I have learned a lot about matching speakers appropriately to the room- since I try to avoid the use of subwoofers if possible). Anyways, the Total Victory's are superb. As soon as they were installed, immediately I noticed the full range sound filling the room and with subsequent breakin I have all the detail retrieval and 'air' of the smaller Victory but with BIG, yet tight and well-damped bass.
The final thing I will add is that Coincident speakers (especially the UHS series) demand the finest upstream components, and you will hear it if they are sub-par. Through the ASL Hurricanes and Israels' VPI HRX table and no-compromise Audion Premiere Quattro 4-box preamp, the TV's are truly a memorable experience. We tried the above combo at Izz's place minus the VPI and with my Accuphase T-101 tuner as front end, and it was still scary good.
As I write this, I am watching the classic 1981 sci-fi flick 'Outland' with Sean Connery- HT is also great through the TV/ASL 1009 combo! Later. |
Great to see you again, Sutts. Thanks for the compliments, but I think you are much better qualified to be a reviewer than I.
The dealer also had the Partial Eclipse and the Victory. Neither of which did we listen to, which I guess is unfortunate. My friend was looking for a small monitor for his low powered amp to mate with in a second system.
Despite most people's impression, when I came across the Victory, it proved to be the first Coincident speaker I didn't think to much of. In hindsight, I should give it another chance, especially in light of what I heard from the Triumph UHS.
Again, the Triumph UHS simply made a believer out of me. Israel hit a home run on this one. We listened to a lot of speakers, and there were just two I would ever put my hard earned money on. And, the Coincident, in my opinion was the better of the two.
In addition, the sensitivity of the Triumph UHS was a great thing. I know that whatever amplifier I ever had, I could drive the speaker.
I guess I take Coincident for granted, since I own a speaker which was considered a "statement" type product. But, even the lowest product on the totem pole left me impressed to a degree I didn't think possible. The more I go out and listen to other speakers, I realize how fortunate I really was to make my purchase. |
Trelja- have you heard any other of the Coincident models? Excellent description by the way- you would be a great reviewer... |
I should clarify my statements about the Coincident Triumph UHS a bit more regarding the lower frequencies.
In comparing them to another very good speaker, the other speaker used a porting alignment to give the impression of full bass and the ability to go low. The result of which is a bump in the midbass, which most people mistake for bass extension. The test for this is to turn the volume up a bit, and see if the sound becomes congested and the bass "wooly", which it did.
Again, I cannot really complain about this - many, many, many speaker designers go this route, and the public prefers it in most instances.
The Coincident did not do this, and to behold that was a revlation. Not that the speaker was bass shy, to the contrary. The Coincident went lower than the other speaker, with the bass remaining clear and cohesive. Israel did a great job in this design, balancing the cabinet, driver, crossover, and port to obtain this result. Bravo! |
I had the chance to accompany a friend on Saturday in auditioning a few small speakers, the Coincident Triumph UHS included.
To be fair, we had been looking, along with another friend at many loudspeakers over the past week or so. For the most part, just about none of the loudspeakers were products I could actually buy and live with. The Coincidents were speakers I could definitely buy and live with.
For the record, the speakers I found myself liking the most featured the Vifa P17 midwoofer such as the Coincident Triumph. A really special driver, especially at about $30. No wonder so many highly regarded loudspeakers feature this driver; great sound at a fantastic price.
I was most surprised by the level of detail they presented. The level of refinement at this price point was the best I have come across. Midrange and treble were truly good. But, what really impressed me most was the bass response. Many small speakers "tune" for a bass response in which they appear to go lower and fuller than they actually do. It isn't a bad solution, as the vast majority of people like this. The Coincident did not do this. Instead, in my opinion, the speaker combined its cabinet, crossover, and port to present very clear and coherent low frequency response.
Every loudspeaker represents a series of compromises. This speaker chooses to go with smaller size and fewer drivers. At this price, I am not sure one can do much better. |
I have Conquests and love them. I had Thiels (1.2) and loved them. However, Thiels kill SET tube amps. The coincidents can be driven by almost anything over 3 watts. I think they sound a lot alike, coincident vs thiel. |
Skooks- who is this Kyle guy and does he have a website or means of contact? Remember hearing the name some time back in the forums... |
About 4 months ago, I revamped my whole system. I purchased Coincident Victory speakers, Audio Research VSi55 tube integrated amp, and a highly modified Philips 1000 SACD player (modified by Kyle Takenaga / Reference Audio Mods), and Coincident CSD interconnect, Coincident Total Reference speaker cables and Coincident power cord (to the amp), and a Dedicated Audio Blue Star power cord (to the 1000). I also have 3 dedicated electrical outlets that are wired with Virtual Dynamics shielded copper wire, and Wattgate receptacles.
It took a little over 1,000 hours for the tweeters to break in and settle down on the Victory's... but, now they are producing some of the best sound I've ever owned! And, I have owned Wilson Watt/Puppy/Whow... double KLH 9's, Martin Logan CLS's, several Magneplanar's, Fulton Premier's, Silverline SR17's and, too many others to relate. I think I know good sound when I hear it... and, this is good sound!
All the components are really working well together. The sound stage is wide and deep, and very holographic, transparent and detailed. The background is quite with much air around each musical source in the SACD... and, even in the Red Book CD's. A good piano is reproduced with reality... the attack of the hammers, and the vibrations of the strings are there with you. Nothing seems to be left out... or added. The focus is very definite, but with no edge... at least after they break in.
You must be patient with the Victory's, and I have heard with the other UHS Coincident speakers, as well. Up until 1,000 hours, they have an irritating edge, and you might wonder if it will ever happen with them. But, suddenly it all comes in, or out, and wow... what sound! Very seductive... it draws you right in.
A good female voice is so there in presence. And, oh yes, the slobber factor is present also. You can hear it all!
The bass is very fast and detailed, but it does not go down much below 35 Hz. I believe I will try a subwoofer at some point... or, go to the Total Victory. But, in the meantime, I won't want. I'll just enjoy!
I love the way the new ARC VSi55 controls the stage and drives these fantastic speakers. Bill Johnson and gang did themselves proud with this little beauty. This has to be the sleeper in the amp field! I've owned many ARC amps, and this fine instrument will hold its own, especially with efficient speakers like the Coincident Victory's.
I can't speak highly enough of Kyle Takenaga's modification of my Philips 1000... he definitely knows how to make 'em sing! The amazing thing is how well the Red Books sound with the mod. But, SACD's are even better.
So, thanks to William Z. Johnson, Israel Blume, and Kyle Takenaga (and others), I have a very exciting and wonderful musical experience. And, oh, yes... a very good HD video system that plays through this 2 channel sound system. I'm in hog heaven! |
Total Victory- can do the 'shock and awe' thing yet also portray the lightest dynamic shading gradient changes- truly impressive- mine are hear to stay. I use ASL 1009 tube monoblocks- this combo just made HP's (Absolute sound) 'Super Component' list- 60 good tube watts are plenty for the TV's considering their high sensivity... |
Thanks Bibby.
Do the subs go underneath the Triumphs or do they sit alone in a corner. I've never seen the mini sub so I have no idea what it looks like.
Do you have any pics you could email me? |
Use the search engine.
I'll repeat for you what I posted earlier.
I have a pair of Triumphs with the TRS and Revelator tweeter upgrades and just got a pair of the mini subs.
I've used them with Wright-Sound Mono 8s,Panor Dynaco and am now using a Belles 150A Hot Rod amp.
With the 8s I found the volume levels lacking.I still like my music LOUD and the 8s ran out of gas just when things were getting good.On certain types of music,acoustic and voices,the music was to die for.But I still want to rock and out the 8s went.Which said something for the Triumphs.
In came the 35 watt Panor Dynaco for a one month stay.The boogie came back and it would have stayed but a good deal came up on the Belles.
The Belles is a great match for the Triumphs.A very mellow sound with the added watts being used to push the new mini subs.
The mini subs add just the right amount of bass.Which the Triumphs are NOT lacking that much of.You will be surprised by the bass those little two ways can put out.But with the subs the sound is more fleshed out and full rounded.I have no plans of selling the Triumph/Mini Sub set up.
I have also had B&W Matrix 804s in my system and home auditioned B&W 805s and a small expensive pair of two ways from Mirage.I liked the detail of the 805s but found them a bit on the bright side.I have allmost all of the detail of the 805s with the Triumphs but in a much silkier,smoother sound.
I feel you can't go wrong with Coincident speakers.
BigB |
