Classical Music for Aficionados
Frogman; PLEASE look at the Celibidache Op 11. The Munchner was always a decent orchestra . What he has done to them is unreal. Few Days ago I got a glance over the back of Bloomstead on a DVD . The players looked like dogs waiting for a bone . Well into his 90’s and still in demand ! I sat into a rehearsal about 30 years ago with him and the Radio Orch. in Berlin (one step behind the Phil) .He stood there and asked THEM what they thought for a half-hour ! |
This is my idea of can not be better , totally different and I weep when I hear this adagio !WOW! i will go look for all Celidache set Barber +Shostakovtich... Staggering difference between these 2 marvellous interpretation... In one, Ormandy, my heart is feeling embedded in time, the tragedy is out there again filling me completely like water filled a cup...It is like re-living the event in this life, a living memory which accompanies me... In the other, Celibidache, the tragedy is there, but completely transcended, and the feeling is now a participating wave in eternity.... It is like living the event after our death revealing all truth about it.... These 2 are the best interpretation i listen to for this Barber masterpiece....Impossible to chose between these 2.... Thanks schubert for the discovery.... |
Orchestras can be ruthless with a conductor that they don’t like or respect. You are entirely correct. One can pick up on how the orchestra feels about a conductor simply by the way that they welcome the maestro when he walks out unto the stage; and the performance will reflect that. It can be obvious enthusiasm, or just obviously obligatory half smiles. Watch the speed and unanimity (or lack of) with which the players rise to their feet. It may be subtle, but always obvious. |
To the best of my knowledge I don’t think the Vienna would put up with any Conductor going that far ! I have seen that in live concert. Not a few think they are the best orchestra in the world , they sure do.I don’t, but so close I would never argue about it . I may be dreaming but I feel at the opening bars you can see whether a band is going with a conductor or not . Look at the Munich Phil and Celibidache or Mazur with his Gewandhaus to see the I’m with you all the way. Which is why I was not happy when Mazur went to New York. My late wife and I had seen him a hundred times with his DDR Orchesta, 3 $ in Leipzig .Few know Americans could go around in East Germany no problem . This is my idea of can not be better , totally different and I weep when I hear this adagio ! https://youtu.be/GbtCChVk0lA?t=3 P.S. Whenever I see Ormandy I think, now there is a honest man . suble |
Rok, I've discovered some things that I like, but this is not my "universe"; I'm like a football player with cleats on a basketball court, or a basketball player on a football field. We created "Jazz For Aficionados", but there is no way I'm going back unless you got my back, and I know you know what I mean. |
O-10 seeks drama? The entire piece (Pictures) is great and not too long. This performance is one of my favorites. Love the bass. The Russians always give the brass a little love. Great stuff, pre-Stalin of course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kirSIsupt6o Cheers |
I love Barber piece.... It is difficult to embody so well a pure feeling....I listen my own heart here, it is more than listening only casual music.... Only the greatest geniuses in music succeeded doing that... Sometimes there is a tragic front side to pure beauty, it is like beauty walking and elevated to truth...Like Michelangelo Pieta.... It will be difficult to surpass the "spoken" articulation of the Ormandy orchestra like the flowing waving of the clothes fabric telling their own tale in the Pieta .... |
I have to agree with Schubert’s comments re Barber. If in strict keeping with the topic of the thread, the foremost American composer. I also agree that there is something wrong with the sound of the Dudamel performance. There is a lack of appropriate balance between the upper and lower strings; as if the lower strings were recorded more up close than the upper strings. This leads to a reduction of the appropriate relationship between the various voices, with celli and bassi being overly prominent relative to the upper strings; both spatially and volume wise. The orchestra sounds too “concentrated” spatially. Perhaps it is a function of mic placement or mic choice for the respective string sections. I suspect it is that, as well as an over aggressive desire on the part of Dudamel to bring forward the “inner voices”; to the extent that the leading voice almost gets lost at times. I can forgive the technical problems with the sound, but more importantly, there is a static quality to this interpretation of what, as rvpiano correctly points out, is something very beautiful. I prefer to hear more movement within each phrase and less overt “drama” from the crescendi and the length of the silences between phrases. For me, this performance, with a more old school recorded sound, gets the balances and pacing right; and the Philadelphia strings sound glorious: https://youtu.be/ThDIKvee_mY Btw, Re the comment by Inna about “too many instruments”. I understand the point, but while I don’t necessarily agree, it should be noted that this beautiful work is a version arranged for large string orchestra (by Barber) of the second movement of his String Quartet Op. 11. https://youtu.be/kxtMe9CPZ9M |
Guess so. This is a piece of his that got me long ago, lyrics are taken from a Great American novel. https://youtu.be/Un7l-CxvdEg?t=1 "A Death in the Family" by James Agee. |
This exploration into Classical is turning out better than expected. So far I find that Debussy takes me back to a previous life. He takes me back to someplace I've never been before, consequently, that's the only explanation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea2WoUtbzuw&t=1346s |
Schubert, since you know about all things German, I thought I would ask you about Hegel. It's for sure that's where you would have ran into Hegel. It only took me twenty years to understand what he was talking about, so it's not something we can discuss in a thread, but you answered my question and that's the end of Hegel. |
A great masterpiece from a great master with about as energy as you could put on a score ! What’s not to like? I seldom listen to him only because of time , But always great when I do. Slav means "glory" more or less in Russian not Slavic . Imperial Russian Anthem is in the piece .Slave is one of the many French words brought into English.Still is except in Texas text books where GOP changed every word of Slave to "workers" . I’ve heard of the Hegel all right, was required doing graduate History at Munster University in Germany .Don’tremember much 50 years later.I I'm sure you would get it with a Google . (If your are not always tried like me). Hang in there buddy ,Cheers |
I find this most interesting ; does anyone have comments? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5poSw7tFLB4 |
Always amazing how this Great Pianist made the most difficult pieces seem so simple and lovely. https://youtu.be/a8MdCABDhSc?t=1 https://youtu.be/bTYCrbnlSFA?t=6 |
I liked Beethoven’s Symphony No. 9, 2nd movement, it had drama and movement. Classical Music: It was not ’Classical’ when it was written. More like ’Popular’ or church music among the powers that were. All Classical music is not created equal. Even from the same Composer. All performances of the same Classical piece are not equal. No One likes it all. In some cases, even the composer did not like what he had written. Beethoven wrote 9 symphonies. 1,2,4,& 8 are not in the same league as 3,5,6,7 & 9. And 9 is in a class of it’s own. So find the stuff you like, and explore that. Cheers Everything follows a bell curve. IOW, the more modern it is, the more noisy it gets. |
Very interesting Modern Mass intended for The Death of Christ . https://youtu.be/wVRLoUknC9o?t=1 Never stops amazing me how amazingly musical of the highest order the Czechs are . |
A shortlist of my favorites:
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I liked Beethoven’s Symphony No. 9, 2nd movement, it had drama and movement. Rok, everything that speaks the truth gets deleted. The 1% controls it all, they're even trying to control what we think. I think this is one of the most beautiful things ever written https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvFH_6DNRCY |
Beethoven 9, 2nd movement: I remember when this was the Theme for the NBC nightly news, with David Brinkley and Chet Huntley. This was before we had channels devoted to either Left-wing liars or right-wing liars. Back then, they just reported what happened that day. Seems sort of quaint now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8FnmdNi-Xc I actually have this performance of the 9th on CD. Did not realize until this very moment that it's on SACD! Cheers |
I never thought about it before, but that's so true, our genre chooses us. That's why so many great jazz musicians are from Detroit and Chicago. I was in Detroit when it was "the" greatest city in this country for the working man. It seemed everybody drove a brand new car, dressed well and lived in a nice home. Michael Moore, who's from that area, thought they were rich when he was a child; he always got what he wanted for Christmas and his family went on a vacation every year. His father worked on an assembly line, the same as other people in the Detroit area who enjoyed a high standard of living. Len, I think I'll try to learn about Classical music, but I didn't like Bach. |
Schubert, I'll pass on Bach, but I have a Beethoven to submit; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JaHvcEiMBc As well as a "Carmen"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1c2CRp56dg |
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Not much, Mahler always seems to me a dog chasing his tail . What do you think of this O-10, perhaps the greatest recording ever made ! https://youtu.be/ldRUt5tU9A0?t=1 |
Schubert, you mentioned Gustav Mahler; what do you think of this? It's from the movie "Shutter Island" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWtqr4VJiCo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmmJsgfNSIM |
