Dear friends: In the Timeltel Calculator link we can choose DIN, IEC or Typical Groove radius standards.
The IEC standards are the ones choosed by the Enjoy The Music Calculator.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Why the MintLP seems to us better when it is not?, IMHO because when we use it what we do we do with more accuracy, I don't think that anyone who uses a Mint LP protractor has every claimed it to do anything more than this. This is pretty much what I replied to Hesson11 back on 4/22. Assuming a protractor is properly drawn, an arc is an arc is an arc. The Mint is simply made to more precise tolerances. That's it. Nothing more. Can someone do just as well with any other protractor? Absolutely. Those of us who chose to use the Mint do so because it is easier to be precise, and to repeat that precision such as it is. |
Dear friends: Now you have the Löfgren A/B and Stevenson Calculators. If any one else is interested on Baerwald please email me and I will give you.
Maybe it is time to build our own protractors and choose with " geometry " works/match our each one priorities and you don't have to pay 100.00+ for it: free stuff!
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Please take Raul's advice if all you are going to do is come back and tell the vast majority of us we must be daft, or can't hear, or have no experience, etc, etc! |
Raul, I know you have vast experience with TT and carts. Have you used a Mint protractor? |
Dear Srwooten: I use it in three different tonearms in friend's systems, not in my system.
Btw, IMHO there is no black magic or moon rocket " secret " in tonearm/cartridge accurate set up like some people think.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
IMHO there is no black magic or moon rocket " secret " in tonearm/cartridge accurate set up like some people think. I am still trying to find where anyone ever said anything like that. |
Dear Dan_end: All over the Agon forum has a lot of posts where people are talking of the MintLP " magic " ( or similar words. ) where there are only different kind of distortions, there is no magic at all.
In the other side, why are you so " delicated " on what I posted or post?, if you don't like it or agree or even if you has nothing to learn or share through then just ignore it: why affect you so much?, seems to me that you have a ressentiment against me, if you have it just grow up and make that whatever you have on your brain just: disappear in good " health " because IMHO your posts about are not helping any one, even you. ?????????!!!
Btw, thank's for the people emails and words for the request of the Barwald Calculator, always are welcome.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Raul,
Well, if people are carried away with hyperbole then that is their problem. No one that I know has ever said anything but how the Mint is simply a better tool because of the precision, not because there is some new math theory. I don't find that, but then I'm not looking for it. Absolutely, no magic. The Mint is just a simple, arc style protractor made to a more precise specification.
You love that word, distortion. Sure, hitting the absolute perfect alignment is in reality impossible. The precision of the Mint is all about minimizing distortion. So I guess if I think a minute I can find a connection between the results I, (and many, many others), get with using the Mint as simply choosing one form of distortion over another.
I was absolutely sincere when I posted that I hope people will contact you, or someone, or do their own research about what I think is basic cartridge alignment before coming here with threads on how/why their cart is twisted in the headshell. If the OP had done that, we wouldn't be getting this attitude of how it must be all of us who are just bleating sheep with no ears or minds of our own.
I'm really sorry you feel like I'm "after" you in some way. I don't follow you, or your threads, or your posts. From time to time we cross paths. If you feel like I'm after you, then perhaps it is you who needs to grow some thicker skin. |
Like I say: useless posts, bye.
regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
do their own research about what I think is basic cartridge alignment before coming here with threads on how/why their cart is twisted in the headshell. If the OP had done that, we wouldn't be getting this attitude of how it must be all of us who are just bleating sheep with no ears or minds of our own. Dan, I came here to try and do some learning on my new protractor and it's alignment. You are making it sound like we are not allowed to post on this forum until we have done 100 hours on "community" alignments or similar. For the record - I have been doing alignments for years - yet I am not familiar with a cartridge NOT being straight in the headshell and found this whole concept to fly in the face of thousands of bits of info I have read over the years. As mentioned way earlier in the thread - I "get" the fact that using the cantilever as a guide can indeed make the cart body sit a little canted. But then I took this theory a step further and asked myself - what if the stylus tip itself is not square to the cantilever? If that's the case - then this whole exercise of microscopic lineup can be pointless. The Mint LP tractor can be useless...in fact all protractors can be useless. Therefore - I can also understand the point of Rauliruegas and others who say...pick your line and if it sounds good - it sounds good. Not sure about some folks - but I didn't get into audio to get math lessons for parabolas, arcs and null points. And as much as I have found this experience to be interesting - I have also found that it's making me seriously second guess everything after each round of adjustments - instead of just enjoying the gear and vinyl. To wit - this week I picked up a brand new 2M Blue and because this "mint lp" ordeal left such a pain in my eye and a feeling like my trig homework wasn't done - I went old school - stuck it on the SL-1210M5G using the Technics overhang gauge. And it sounds excellent. Took two minutes to setup.... I am still testing the pair of AT440MLa...one "minted" and the other not. Details on that when I get a little more time... Cheers! VP |
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VP, you can find all kinds of basic information on the web about the different alignment geometries. No need to go through the math, necessarily. Just the basic overview of each would have explained why your cartridge may be twisted by aligning to a different geometry than the arm was designed for. Others tried to point this out to you.
There is no snake oil here. No exaggerations on findings, and I do know that you are not the first to report not being able to improve your cart's alignment by using the Mint. It could be that your previous alignment was good enough, it could be that there is a problem in your system with resolution. Just a suggestion. I can't really say because I've not heard your system.
I have listened to music with Raul and I know that my hearing is at least as good as his. According to Raul, for instance, I already have both hands tied behind my back because I prefer the "distortion" of "equalizer" tubes to SS. Raul does have a lot of experience and can offer much advice to those who want it.
The Mint is a very good tool that many of us would not be without because we have all found benefit in our systems by using a more precise protractor. Was it huge? No. Probably along the lines of a cable upgrade, but the reduction in error in alignment is palpable no matter what protractor one uses. The "magic" comes from more of the music getting through due to reduced tracking error.
Obviously, we are all free to setup our systems in any way we chose. But however we chose, this does not invalidate what results others may get from completely different methods. |
Dear Vocalpoint: +++++ " I "get" the fact that using the cantilever as a guide can indeed make the cart body sit a little canted. But then I took this theory a step further and asked myself - what if the stylus tip itself is not square to the cantilever? If that's the case - then this whole exercise of microscopic lineup can be pointless. " +++++
you are right.
The rule/myth that we have to make the cartridge alignment with the cantilever not the body is only a myth because what you point out and because like I posted when the cantilever deviation is not so " wide " and when the cartridge/cantilever is in " motion/dynamic status " ( playing a recording. ) against static status when is on the protractor the cantilever in motion is " centered " to the body so makes no sense to align the cantilever in the protractor but the cartridge body because in motion the cantilever is centered to the cartridge body.
So, all the people that made the cartridge alignment through the cantilever maybe are wrong because that alignment was made it in static cantilever/cartridge status instead that in real/true cartridge/cantilever position in motion.
Maybe is better to align in the " old " orthodox way: with the cartridge body instead cantilever.
In the other side that people likes the distortions that are hearing with the alignment today have does not means is right.
and don't forget that every time ( for the purist/perfeccionist that change every record side or every record track. ) you change VTA/SRA you have to re-align if you want to be where you was before the VTA/SRA change.
I think that we can but we can't be so perfeccionist on the subject ( just like with VTA/SRA ) because we need time to enjoy music, then we have to take some " average " accurate each one " roads " to make that: hear and enjoy the music, that IMHO is the main reason why we are " here "!!!!!
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear Raul, The other reason or the main reason VP's cartridge was not aligned to his headshell was because his MintLP protractor was designed for Stevenson geometry, whereas the tonearm on his Technics tt was designed for Technics geometry. So, even if he were to use the cartridge body as his guide, his cartridge would have ended up twisted with respect to the headshell. At least this is what I understood from reading his initial posts.
I have read elsewhere, on Vinyl Engine I think, that the Technics geometry gives no null points across the surface of the LP, and most think it is therefore better to use Stevenson, the closest of the standard choices, when aligning cartridges in the tonearm on the Technics SL series tts. I guess this is why Yip chose Stevenson.
By the way, do you really think a bent cantilever straightens itself out under dynamic conditions of playing an LP? Sometimes, maybe. |
Dear Lewm: +++++ " do you really think a bent cantilever straightens itself out under dynamic conditions of playing an LP? " +++++
I don't think it I already tested on three different cartridges and that's what happen. Maybe not on all cartridges with all kind of deviation. So we have to test first than make the alignment.
If you have one why don't you try it and see for your self?
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Right now, I have no cartridges with "bent" cantilevers, I am happy to say, but it did occur to me that the forces that bend the cantilever in the first place (usually skating force in a pivoted tonearm) are either present or neutralized by anti-skate. If you apply sufficient anti-skate, I suppose the cantilever will move back to a neutral position during play. Sometimes I think also that if the cantilever mount has become that flexible in the lateral plane, the mount is not in good shape. Sorry, VP, this is off-topic I suppose. |
Dear VP: We on the MM/MI long thread start/follow ( last 12 post there. ) your thread subject.
Could be interesting to read about. This is one of my posts there on the subject:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&2114&4#2114
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
yes, Lew.
in single point suspension cartridge system if the record plane and tonearm and its headshell planes are level, anti skate is properly applied: the diamond tip should be in the same plane as cantilever pivot point under VTF. This plane should be perpendicular to to record plane. It all taking in account that VTF force vector is big enough to correct cantilever suspension. Twisting cartridge in headshell created different weight distribution that tonearm was originally designed for. May be cartridge weight distribution plays some factor when there is synergy or opposite of it between cartridges and tonearms. |
Lew, it is better to be flexible in all planes from the get go. That the purpose of cantilever suspension to be flexible. |
Lewm - Just to be clear.
Yip does indeed make the Technics protractors using the Stevenson alignment geometry. Stevenson null points are 60.3mm and 117.4mm whereas the Technics null points (that will result in the cartridge being close to square in the headshell) are 58.8mm and 113.5mm respectively. |
Dear Vinyladdict: Those null points values depend of what standards was used for the whole calculations: DIN or IEC, the null points you obtain are different in each case.
Even you can choose your own " standard ".
regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Raul, of course it does - but those are the IEC standard null points the arm was designed around that will result in the cartridge being square in the headshell. The whole point of the OP's question. |
