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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Update on one of the vintage amps.

In the past I had posted of two failed Duelund capacitors leaking and a few Jupiter caps very fragile leads breaking. 

Now in one of the amps in for service one of the Jensen capacitors has gone bad and was arching inside the cap.

I live in the same town as tube amp builder who does excellent work! He changed the amp from cathode biased to fixed bias. The amp although sounding GREAT was unstable. (he is not a fan of cathode bias?)

So this is his opinion (on the cap) not mine and I heard it and seen it on his test equipment. The cap had gone bad inside. 

He is not a fan of "exotic" caps as he calls them. (To me they are great sounding to him exotic) From his point of view of having amps come in from all over North America for repair I can see why. He simply could not have the failure rate I have had. He has seen 3 of my exotic caps go bad out of 15 to 20 caps of mine he has seen. (3 or 4 others he has not seen) I am sure he could not have a failure rate this high!


All that being said parts connection did make it right. 

I will have the amp back soon and with now 4 cheap (reliable) poly caps installed. 

I am am going to listen and see about leaving the poly caps in or replacing them.

I suspect they will be replaced...


The only exotic so far with no problems has been VCap's. Although I suspect their are more machine made? Jensen, Duelund and Jupiter more hand made? 

Not it exactly sure of the process?


This is not a rip on the exotic caps. I am for sure hooked! Even with the problems the sound difference is just way to big to ignore!



manolo
12 posts
 
I have been enjoying this thread since it started. I do not recall if I have posted in it previously. Some of the coupling caps I have tried and still are around in my Supratek Chardonnay linestage are Auricaps, circa 2010, Nothing special. Mundorf SIO's, very smooth and musical. Still use them once in a while. Rike S, nice and musical, don't remember too much about them. V-Cap tftf, not as smooth as the SIO's but very dynamic. Kind of cool sounding. A lot of detail, big sound. Still use them. Got a pair of 0.22 uf V-Cap Cutf's to bypass the tftf's. Did not really work too well. And then it ocurred to me to install these by themselves - all the above caps have a value of .68 -tftf V-Cap- to 1 uf, so .22 is not really optimal in this position. I guessed bass response would not be too strong..... which is the case.... but midrange, smoothness, soundstage and tone and depth qualities trump all others.... frustrating because getting larger value Cutfs would mean spending over $700!! which Zi won't and can't. The linestage output is transformer coupled and these caps are in their input, so it is not a matter of adding a high value resistor to ground after the cap. 

manolo
12 posts
 
In relation internal wiring you should investigate Wonder Wire, solid core either with indulstion or bare. Sold by Michael Percy. I have been buyng it for many years, especially bare wire which sounds better. I add cotton insulation where needed. Excellend sounding very natural.

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Quick question.  Are these audiophile capacitors like the Mundorf directional? 

grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,466 posts
 
Yes indeed based on how the cap is built. There is an inside and outside foil and many brands mark the caps so you are aware. From the Aiken amplifier site;

The proper way to connect the outside foil is to the low impedance side of the circuit, which, in the case of coupling caps, will normally be the plate of the previous stage. If it is a bypass cap to ground, connect the outside foil to the grounded side. If it is a bypass cap from a signal to B+, connect the outside foil to B+. The outside foil will act as a shield against electric field coupling into the capacitor, so you want it to have the lowest impedance return path to ground.
For AC signals, the power supply rail is effectively at ground potential, just as the ground rail is. This is why it makes a good point to use as a shield ground. This concept is sometimes difficult to understand, but if you think about how a capacitor works, it will become clear. A capacitor has a capacitive reactance that calculated as follows:

Xc = 1/(2*Pi*f*C)
where: Xc is the capacitive reactance
          f = the frequency of the signal being passed through the capacitor
          C = the capacitance of the capacitor.

As you can see from the above equation, the frequency term is in the denominator, so as the frequency increases, the capacitive reactance decreases. Since reactance is effectively a measure of the "AC resistance" of the capacitor, the capacitor will exhibit a very low resistance at higher frequencies, while looking like an open circuit for DC and frequencies low enough to make the capacitive reactance significant. This means that the large electrolytic bypass capacitors in the power supply are effectively "short circuits" to AC signals above a certain very low frequency. For all practical shielding purposes, connecting the outer foil to the power supply rail is just as good as connecting it to ground. As a side note, electrolytic capacitors have an internal resistance that tends to rise with frequency, which can make the capacitor less than ideal as a bypass at higher frequencies. For this reason, it is sometimes a good idea to bypass electrolytic capacitors with a smaller value foil or other type capacitor.
I have seen where a well-known guitar amplifier "guru" said to connect the banded end to the grid of the next stage because it is at ground potential. This is completely wrong, because the grid circuit is a very high impedance point in the circuit. The grid of the tube itself is very high impedance, and it is usually shunted by a high resistance of 220K to 1Meg, and also usually has a large series resistance as an interstage attenuator as well. Because of this, it would make a very poor choice for electrostatic shielding. The plate, on the other hand, has an impedance equal to the internal plate resistance of the tube in parallel with the plate resistor (assuming the cathode is bypassed), which for a typical 12AX7 is around 38K total. If the cathode resistor is unbypassed, the output impedance is a bit higher, around 68K or so, depending on the value of the cathode resistor, but still well below the input impedance of the next stage. Tubes with lower internal plate resistances, such as the 12AT7, will have even lower output impedances.
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