Charles, I would not clip the leads and suggest simply heat shrinking over the leads. Are you doing the job? |
I have compared the CAST to the Alexander and in my tube preamp the CAST were far better. Not close really. The Alexander almost sounds noisy and edgy compared to the CAST. Yes, the CAST cap may well be the best sounding cap of all time. |
Charles, I was talking to a well respected builder and he suggested that one can hear the skin effect caused when the surface of exposed copper wire becomes corroded. He pointed out that heat shrink does not keep air out and the copper may still corrode.
So the point is whatever you decide make sure the wire is properly covered to prevent air exposure. If you decide to clip the cap wire, then the wire you are using should be coated properly already.
Some use rubber paint, nail polish, urathane etc the cover the wire before covering with heat shrink.
Hope this helps.... |
Jwn, Correct. I have tried to like silver and even built a set of silver ic's with VH Audio silver wire, but in the end it just sounded a little thin and tipped to the highs. Solid core copper seems to be the most evenly balanced wire I have heard and used in my projects and in my system.
It just goes to show we all like different types of sound. Silver is lighter and more airy, but solid core copper is more dynamic and has more meat on the bones. Real differences and real preferences. |
Great points. My Mundorf solder has silver and gold? Not seen copper however? |
Charles, I have owned top of the the line Kimber silver and still the same sound as I mentioned above. I want to try Ocellia, but the site lists no prices etc... Do they offer a trial period? I would like to try them as I am open minded with silver.....and curious |
Thanks Charles. Must offer a trial for that kind of money as I would never purchase a set without a trial period. Too bad. Have you tried Clear Day?
I emailed them as they offer a trial and use solid core which is my preference. Perhaps you have heard them? |
Yes the tining will prevent corrosion if applied well. I would still heat shrink over it. If you plan to simply solder into the existing speaker wire, then adding a short piece of silver wire to each end of the cap and then soldering to the existing speaker wire would not be worth the effort and not a good idea. Just use the copper leads to the internal speaker wire.
If you want to use the silver wire to connect directly to the tweeter, then it makes sense. Not sure if you are planing to rewire the tweeter crossover parts with your silver wire? |
Yes, parts matter and the CAST caps make great gear even greater! They did the same for my tube preamp.
I am so pleased you are pleased Charles. After another 50 hours you will be be even more pleased. |
Well I decided to try CAST caps in my TRL modified Sony CD player. TRL already did significant mods to this unit including a battery power supply for the DAC section.
The output caps were cheap electrolytic types. Very small in size and 100uf value. I simply did not think I could replace these 100 uf caps with small value CASTs , but I was wrong. I placed .22 CAST caps and was not prepared for the massive improvement.
No bass roll off to my ears and I actually measured the bass down to under 25 htz in my room. The sound is soooooooo much better. Guess Sony used 100uf values as the caps are very tiny and electrolytics. I have read larger values are needed to cut distortion with these caps. I learned first hand that one can replace these types of caps with values far smaller when using good film or PIO caps.
Cap roll on! |
Fine to solder leads onto both endys of the cap. Use good wire. I suggest using the same wire in the speaker if they will send you a foot of it.
The Mundorf and Duelund caps do not have polarity. No positive or negative to worry about. I would place both in the same direction for consistency.
Do you know how to solder? |
Solid core copper well insulated to prevent oxidation. Heat shrink connections..... |
Duomike knows your speaker and is spot on for the best way to do this if you are able? |
Not all solid core copper or silver wire is the same....sounding |
Houstonreef, the CAST cap is made with copper! |
Tas, not sure what you mean about posting it on your Agon page. You don't have such a page and would need a virtual system set up.....I think I have this right?
You can contact me through the Agon system and we can share ideas and progress. |
Ok gang, I have been using a cap that is so good that I'm afraid when you hear the price most will disregard my comments. Keep in mind I compared it to the best - Duelund CAST copper.
This cap came very close to the CAST and offers a richer sound it is also more expansive sounding. The bass is more full bodied. It lacks the ultimate degree of detail of the Duelund. The Duelund is a tad more resolving and in the end is still the king. However, you must try this cap out as you will be amazed. I would use it ahead of any Mundorf as well as most every other cap aside of CAST.
It is my cap of choice based on sound quality and price. I have only tried it in tube amps and preamps mind you.
They cost under $10 for values under 7uf. Yes, this cheap and darn good. Yes, metalized film.....Yes, it still is this good.....
Several other Aphiles have heard them and also agree 100%.
You can get them at Just Radios in Canada. They are Chinese made. Don't worry about that either as they sound great.
Ok, there it is. |
Oh yes the name ......JB JFX Premium caps. |
No idea, it just does. Give it 50 hours of break in and see for yourself. Just sounds like music. |
Reporting back on these JB JFX caps and they are wonderful folks. I can't say it more clearly. They compete with any cap and I don't care of the cost.
I have used them in two different preamps and one amp. All tubed units. I used them as coupling caps with great results.
They are sleepers are dirt cheap. |
The best way to mount crossover parts is in an outboard crossover box. It is hard to believe how many crossover components are placed right inside a bass cavity with the woofer and cab throwing all kinds of vibrations etc. at the components. I removed a pretty extensive crossover from a bass cab into its own high quality vibration dampened box and the improvement was startling to say the least.
At least make sure it is very secure and I like what Salectric said. |
Ricevs,
I am building a preamp and soon some amps and your post is quite interesting. The whole bypass cap argument has passionate debate on both sides. Some say they do nothing, others say they degrade sound and yet others love them like you.
Have you tried this approach in gear besides speakers? Tube amps? I am open to the idea and will most likely a/b with and without bypass caps to come to the truth for me.
Do you bypass power supply caps and coupling caps? If the tube amp is regulated, then have you found bypassing still helps?
Sorry for all the questions, but this is quite interesting.
Ok Volley and others those JFX JB Premium film caps are absolutely wonderful in electronics. Just try and see first hand. Goodness they cost $3 a $20 each! I call it the way it is regardless of cost as I learn. I love the Duelund CAST and I love these also! I could live equally with both and one cost near 100x less! Ha!
I have not tried them in speakers yet. To my ear they sound better than any Mundorf in electronics. |
Volley, you really do need to try those JBXCAPS the premium film ones from Just Radios. They are darn good a crazy low priced.
You will be amazed I am confident. |
Thanks to all and good follow up ....... I am going to try some on large can, computer grade electro's in a power supply. We will see. I don't like tilted up highs or mids, but greatly prefer a warm tone with good detail. |
Like most things it comes down to execution and the results may in fact be in the details. I will report back on my findings as I must learn first hand ... |
I am glad folks are trying the JFX caps. Folks, listen up....these are very, very good and only $3 or so a pop for the smaller coupling or output size caps.
Try it folks. You will be pleased. |
I am going to heat my outboard crossover box/enclosure to keep all the components at a nice operating temperature of 100-105 degrees. Much better sound with this modification as they will operate at the temperature they sound the best.
Just kidding:) Well kind of? Happy New Year to all! |
Jburidan, your post just cracked me up. So true........ |
I have a question and I hope one with good experience can help.
I want to upgrade the caps in my 45 SET amp. I need the following;
2 - 100uf /100 v
2 - 100uf /350v in power supply
Right now just cheap electrolytics. I want film caps, but very few go this large and don't know which ones are best.
I was thinking of Clarity SA or the TC line from Clarity. Solen?
Ok, please help me. Yes, the cap can be rated for a higher volt value then the original cap. |
Where o you purchase these new TC caps? Thanks for the post! |
Thanks Ric. I did all the damping with the Wimas. That is something I have always done. No, I did not let them play for days as I could not stand the etched sound. I always wait for burn in, but after emailing you and knowing I had the wrong value, I just pulled the plug!
Looking forward to round two. Also looking forward to hearing the new Jupiter caps. Duelund needs more competition so their prices come down. Competition is good for us all on these mega dollar caps! |
Ricevs, ok you got me all jazzed up. I cannot find where to get these dots. I find a bunch of strange articles etc...but where do I buy them and where do they go on the cap? On the ends? Thanks....that is my final question:-) |
Salectric, you are finding different CAST values sound different not because the cap sounds different, but because the VALUE sounds a little different in that position. That has been my experience - this is especially true of preamp output/coupling caps. Larger values my have more bass impact etc...due to how the corresponding piece of gear downhill from the CAST cap performs with it...synergy.
I have found that sometimes Duelund CAST caps may too revealing and a tad bass shy in some locations. Rare, but I have heard it.
One cap I keep talking about is the JFX JB Premium film cap. I replaced the CAST with these in several pieces to compare and these are a steal folks. $5 for a 3.0uf value! $11 for a 6.8uf value. They are warmer sounding than the CAST with better bass. They are not as resolving however. They are more polite in the top end, but depending on what your looking to accomplish, they can be ideal!
I use combination of both on my system. Nice results.
Another cap I like is the paper wrapped Jensen copper. very rich and full bodied. Again, not as resolving as the CAST, but a nice lower cost alternative if needed.
The JFX cap is easily the cap of choice if looking for excellent sound quality that is affordable. Forget, Solen, Mundorf etc......these JFX's caps are a far better value. ya, to my ears they sound better |
Ricevs ...great stuff and thanks so much. Please explain how to damp a cap .... The best way to damp a cap.
Salectric, I have not used the JFX in a speaker, just tube electronics and CD players. In those positions they are just the opposite of your speaker experience. They are full bodied with deep bass and warm in the highs. Never, ever even approaching bright. Now, they were the first few hours, but not after burn in. Interesting. Not sure if they should be avoided with speakers? |
Ricevs, How do you know which side of the cap is the outside foil? I only have a multimeter to use? You no doubt are very good at what you do? Are you a builder? |
Ricevs, lastly how do you damp the wire leads? Thanks for your help. I plan to try the dots and better damp some of my current mod work. |
Salectric, and others,
I am going to upgrade the parts in my speaker and have one question. My speaker has Zobel networks on the drivers. My speaker is a four way (mid bass drivers as we'll as midrange) so I have four caps and four resistors in my Zobel networks in total. All the resistors are inexpensive sand cast types. All the caps are also inexpensive Solen Fast Caps. The builder and others sure think these have no impact on the sound and should be left alone. I read the comments above on Zobel Networks and want to open up this topic again.
The crossover is said to be a simple first order type so outside of these multiple Zobel networks I have one cap on the tweeter and one on the midrange drivers. I will change these out for sure.
Question, will upgrading the sand cast resisters to Mills MRA and caps to something better like Jupiter Flat or Mundorf, or Obbilgatto in the Zobel networks have any impact in sound in your opinions? |
This thread is quite sleepy of late. Well, I love the Obbligato cap I put on the tweeter of my Coincident TVIII speaker. All burned in and it sounds far better than the old Solen cap.
I just installed some Jupiter HT flat stacked caps on the midrange drivers. Not sure if other have tried this cap? With only 4 hours the mids are a little dark thus far. We will see where things end up. Very meaty and rich, but a tad too dark and this juncture. |
Grannyring is a cyclist term. It is the third smaller ring on the front crank shaft used to help during steep climbs. Most riders don't use them and hammer it out with just the second smaller ring. I like to spin up a mountain and keep my knees healthy :-) I use the third Grannyring. |
I see you did not talk to Duelund. I would not bypass a Duelund cap and simply go with the one cap. Bypassing can introduce issues and why take the risk with such a great sounding cap?
I assume you are using Duelund on the midrange drivers also? |
Well I upgraded the caps and resistors in my Coincident Total Victory III speakers. What a complete hassle and hard work! The wires inside the speaker are very, very short making it darn difficult to take the tweeter out. Nor could I pull out the crossover board behind the tweeter without cutting wires from other drivers going into the board. The other drivers are all in their own enclosures with the wires traveling through small holes from one speaker section to the next. The cut wires were so short it was darn near impossible to re-solder those cut connections. Oh my what a job.
Behind the tweeter I replaced three Solen Fast Caps and three sand cast resistors. I replaced them with Mills MRA12 resistors and Obbligato Premium Gold caps. I simply did not have the funds for Duelunds.
The bottom of the speaker has two more resistors and two more caps. I replaced the Solen Fast caps and sand cast resistors with Mills MRA12 and Mundorf Supreme.
What I will do someday is remove everything from the speaker and make an outboard crossover board. When I do this, I will use Duelund parts.
The speaker is said to have only one cap in the signal path for the tweeter and midrange. Well, those resistors and caps beyond the one arguably still influence the sound even if part of several Zobel Networks.
Perhaps a little early to tell the result as the caps are fresh with no burn in. Right now the highs and mids are more open and apparent. Things seem a little rough and hard right now so I will report back and more burn in. |
I chose the Mills and Obbligato parts based on experience with them in the past and user reviews. They are just very good for the money. Not the best, but good.
I am not sure of the results yet. The parts are still burning in.
I am putting together a plan for a nice outboard crossover what I will make in time. I plan to use Duelund parts for this.....including inductors.
I am not sure how important the parts are, caps and resistors, in the Zobel networks. I don't want to spend Duelund money if these parts are less important and don't give a nice level of sonic improvement. I just don't know and can't experiment unless and until the crossovers are external. Just too much of a pain to swap parts as the current crossover boards are configured.
I am quite impressed with the quality of the build in my speakers. Very nicely done! |
Agreed Charles. Just send me your amps and I will tell you what I think in a few months :-) |
Tasoili, I would love to email with you on this. My speaker seems to be just like yours. Why do you need internal wire? Just use what is in there? The crossover parts should be part to part wired with no additional wire needed...right?
Behind my tweeter I also have the two midranges and tweeter crossover board. Mine has three caps and three resistors.
Caps are 6.8 uf, 16 uf, and .68 uf
Resistors are 15 ohm, 1.2 ohm and 39 ohm
If you are getting those awesome Duelund blacks, then why mess with the bypass at all. No need for it? May not help the sound at all. Could hurt. What did Duelund say about bypassing his cap?
Thanks |
Tas, thanks for the update. Ya, getting better wire will also help. The Duelund silver would be awesome! Yes it is pricy, but very good indeed.
I want to see the diagram for your speaker. I do not think those smaller caps are bypass caps, I think they are part of the Zobel networks. Zobel networks are used to help smooth out speaker/driver impedances. |
I also suggest solid core copper wire from Neotech. They make Teflon coated 6/9's pure copper that is very good and affordable.
Use 20 gauge on the tweeter and 14 gauge on the bass drivers. The mids can use 16-18 gauge. |
In addition bypass caps are usually a much smaller value such as .01 - .68 uf values.....the 5uf or so tweeter cap would not be bypassed with 2 or 2.2uf value! |
Charles, are you absolutely sure your speakers don't have Zobel network parts....Have you looked all around? They may indeed....? |
Ok here is an update on the cap and resistor upgrade I did on my speakers. First I want to say to those who feel caps and resistors don't need to burn in and that any changes we hear are our ears getting used to the different sound. Your wrong! Ha! Just plain old mistaken.
I listened to my speakers for two days right after the mod and was kind of concerned as the highs and mids were thin and not very musical. I just could not stand it. I grabbed my Bel Canto integrated and an Oppo 83 CD player from a second system and just played my speakers 24/7 with a special burn-in CD and all kinds of music. I did not have a chance to get used to the sound as I did not listen and just left my music room located in my basement the moment I loaded a new CD on repeat mode.
After 4 days or some 80 hours I listened to my main rig again and just smiled! The highs are now far more open and filled the room. No trace of thinness or etched sound anymore. A completely different speaker compared to what I heard 4 days earlier. Rich and smooth is all I hear now! The speakers sound more open and relaxed then before the upgrade. Yes the upgrade was worth my time and money.
In the future I will upgrade to Duelund resistors in the Zobel Networks and Duelund caps on the tweeter and midrange drivers.
I will plug the use of Obbligato premium gold caps on tweeters and midrange drivers in a crossover. They are only $23- $35 per cap depending on the value and far better than Solen Fast Caps in these crossover positions.
I may use Jupiter Flat Stacked or Clarity MR in the Zobel networks as I believe they do make a difference. I can say for sure the Mills MR12 resistor connected to the tweeter cap provided I nice improvement over the sand cast resistor used in that position. |
Tas, I looked at your diagram and the smaller 2.7 and 2.2uf caps are not bypass caps, but part of the resistor/capacitor Zobel networks on your tweeter and midrange drivers.
In these RC or Zobel networks a resistor and capacitor are linked in series and placed in parallel to the driver or speaker.
These networks do in fact change the sound of the driver otherwise they would not be there. They are used to smooth out rising impedance on a woofer and often used to cure or smooth out frequency peaks in tweeters.
Many feel the quality of the part does indeed play a sonic role in these RC networks. The fact that our speakers have a decent film cap and not electrolytic in these positions points to this fact.
Merlin Music uses an RC rework on their speakers and also uses good parts quality for a reason.
Remove that RC filter from your speaker and your speaker will not sound the same. The network is impacting the sound and the parts do matter. They almost always matter.
Builders and designers are typically not built like us obsessive parts testers and swappers .... Many have not done all the cap and resistor rolling we do and simply don't know first hand the result. Others just leave that to others and push the circuit design to the limit. Lastly, others have a budget and at some point not every part can be more expensive.
You have made some nice part choices Tas. Did you order CAST resistors from Duelund! |
