Can you have a huge 3D soundstage in a small room?

Check out realtraps.com. Good pricing. Room treatment will help alot. I'm suprised nobody mentioned speakers but big speakers will throw a larger soundstage and your room should accomodate them. The room treatments will help no matter what you do and if you can do it you should. It's a very worthwhile investment and will make more of a difference than any electronics upgrade will. Cheers

Thanks to everyone for the input. I will try the speakers on the short wall. It doesnt really work ergonomically but if it will sound great I am willing to give it a try. I think I have tried just about everything for the long wall placement. So what works well for wall treatments? My dealer likes the RPG wall panels for absorbtion and diffusion. Any thoughts?

Thanks again

Ok, a little harsh sounding, and maybe a little critical to boot, but most of above is pure hoggy-washy...
The last statements refering to using the "short wall" setup for getting a huge soundstage are not fact, in and of themselves. Infact, as an acoustical engineer, I'll tell you that the front wall reflections have much much less detrimental affect than the boundaries between you and your speakers!(sides,ceiling,etc). Usually, a minimal diffuse/absorb solution up front will deal with any problems there.
Without any applied acoustical treatments in small rooms, it's usually easier to get a better soundstage and imaging using the "longwall" setup...all things considering. If the rooms are too narrow however, there's other challenges in bass modes and proximity to the front speakers that are considered however. If you do do a short wall setup, you'll either need to have the speakers "in a bit" from the sides, and be sitting closer in approximation to the speakers for a good soundstage and imaging. Otherwise, you must deal with reflections, preferably more diffusion in small rooms, going to more absorbtion in larger rooms, as is most often the case.
Of course, it's all a balancing act with acoustics. But you can get a massive sounding accoustic, with severe acoustical modifications and applicaitons. Mainly, you need to absorb all the excess bass in small rooms, which often aint happenin'! Therefore, there's too much bass overhang and reverb. Then, mate that with the case that most people aren't getting anywhere near flat response in small rooms from their seating possitions, don't/can't properly adress "Q" in the room, nor deal with reflections and balancing diffusion/absorbtion/etc right, and have a seroiusly challenged setup all around, and it becomes a near impossiblity in most cases to get a world class sound!
Oh well...you can always higher an acoustical expert.......
In short

I agree your speakers need to be on the short wall. I rarely audition a system that has a better soundstage than mine and my room is 14x15 so I think it is definately possible for you to get a terrific soundstage. It takes A LOT of experimenting though! It doesn't just fall out of the sky - unless you are way luckier than me! Arthur

The only way to get close to what you want is to put the speakers on the short wall, 7-8 feet apart. Then pull the speakers well out from the wall, 5 feet or more, and treat the first reflection points on the side walls with absorptive material. I don't think you wanted to hear this, but it's the only way to achieve what you're looking for. Long wall placement in a narrow room will never create a deep soundstage.

I have similar dimensions, but have the speakers situated on the 13 foot wall. The imaging is often outside of the speaker, given the material, of course, and the depth of soundstage is very good. I attempted placement similar to yours, but found much restriction in all areas that you are trying to improve on. Plus I was seated so close to the speakers.

The distance I now have is 3-4' from sidewalls, 8-9' from front, and nearly 20' from rear wall. The ceiling is a mere 7', which is the largest drawback. Yet, I am still obtaining a very musical presentation.

I have no experience with Vandi's, but I have heard complimentary discussion regarding imaging and disappearing.

I don't think you will ever get there in a 13' deep room.

Zargon, Audiokinesis, I have tried many different locations and methods over the years. I have had the best results with the recomended Vandy placement according to their specs. Currently the 2CEs are almost 3 feet off the back wall, about 5 feet from the right side wall and 30 feet from the left side wall. There is about 12 inches behind the listening position to the back wall. Short wall placement is not an option. The room is carpeted. I would say that the room is bright because I have to turn the treb and mid adjustments down about 2 db to smooth things out. I will be investing in some wall treatments as soon as I get things sorted out. I am currently running

Wadia 861
Supratek pre amp
VTL MB 125 amps (upgrading soon to VTL MB 450)
Cardas Golden Cross interconect
Kimber Bifocal XL speaker cable
(2) Vandy 2WQ subs with model 5 xover

Thanks

My room is similar to yours in dimensions, and I can get excellent depth and a fairly wide soundstage but still not as wide as in a wider room. On some recordings, I can get sounds coming from outside the speakers and even directly to the right or left of the listening position. I'm using relatively phase-coherent speakers (full-range electrostats) and treating the first reflection zones with diffusion (fake ficus trees).

I agree with Zargon that the Vandies are very capable in the imaging department. Unless your room is overly bright, my standard suggestion is to try fake ficus trees along the sidewalls in the first reflection zones (typically $29.95 each in your local craft store). If your room is too bright, then absorption in the first reflection zones might work better.

You might also try nearfield listening - that is, with your listening chair less than 6 feet from the speakers. The direct sound should dominate with such a setup. Now the driver integration may be a problem at such close range, but experiment with different ear heights (try slouching more than normal) and see if that doesn't help snap the imaging into focus. The

Duke

The Vandy 2CE Sigs are very capable of creating a wide, high and deep sound stage. There must be other room related factors here. Vandys like to be out and away from the walls. Can you tell us more about the current location and any room limitations? Have you considered them on the short wall?