I'm also in the market for a PLC but have not decided on which one to buy due to budget constraints and feature requirements. I've been reading through the postings related to PLCs in Audiogon forum to get some ideas and more understanding (I appreciate everyone's reponse). I have also done some research on my own. However, what I have noticed is the Monster Cable PLC is somewhat popular to alot of people. I have tried to find more technical details about the Monster's PLC, but it doesn't seem like they are posted on their web site. What I would like to know is (1) does it use a shunt (MOV based) or series mode surge suppression and (2) their clamping voltage is at 330V, doesn't this seem to be a bit high ?
Also, it doesn't seem like the Adcom is very popular since I haven't heard anyone using or talked about. The spec on this unit seems to be fine, does anyone have any info on why it is or is not more well known ?
I appreciate your response. |
I want to update you guys on results:
Right after my last post i decided to go direct into wall with my amplifier (dedicated line) Well right of the bat i heard some "tizz" or "hash" that i have never heard before. I have never heard my Bel Canto without the HTS5000 before (purchased same time). I also felt that i lost some detail... I have really been spoiled with my current setup and have become a detail junky. And it seemed that some of it dissapered. OH NO! WHERE'S THE DETAIL?
So I decided to run system for a few days before being overly critical. I do leave amp and pre on all the time.
And i also listen probably about 6 hours a day.
Over the last 24 hours i have listenend to every recording i have that i know well. The "tizz in mid" and "hash in HF" never went away... At times i felt the system had very slight more slam but that there has always been plenty of that.
But the thing that bothered me the most was all of a sudden
my system became fatiguing a thought that had never even
entered into my mind with this system.
Well i decided to plug back into HTS5000 a couple of hours
ago with the intention of giving system a few days to settle before passing judgment... I took me probably 5 seconds to hear that the "tizz" and "Hash" were gone again..
Ouw yeah there's the detail too. The overall sound is just
much better and smoother. Definelty blacker background.
Its unbalievable when i bought that thing i was just trying
to protect my gear "hopefully" without muckin things up.
I only paid 350.00 on Yahoo for the thing. Its like 600 list
or something like that.
Im not a big fan of Monster products but i guess they
knew what they were doing when they hired Richard Marsh
and that other guy to design the product (I think he's from Spectra). I dont know if i should be a Marsh fan now but i got my detail back and im happy :-)
So bottom line is in my system the conditioner did much
more good than bad.
Monroe2 please let us/me know what your results are... I
am very intrested to hear. |
Sean,
I totally agree with you... The thing that bothers me the most is all components are being fed by one cord like you said. Where i live there is not alot of lightning or outages (just earthquakes and high energy bills)so im atleast going to try a direct shot for the amp. The other
thing is a recently bought a new PC its an Eichmann PWR
express and they strongly recommend a direct shot into the
wall so i will try... plug and prey!
Thanks for advice... |
Voodoochile: There are ways to manipulate figures to portray whatever one wants to say IF one is "crafty". That does not mean that the tests used or figures conveyed were realistic or performed in a "tell all" method.
To put things in perspective, i'd like to see them try and pass 21,000 watts through one of their PLC's. That is equivalent to 175 amps at 120 volts. Needless to say, there would be a big explosion and a lot of smoke and fire.
I would suggest running the amp direct and running it through the PLC. If you don't notice any difference, leave it plugged into the PLC. Peace of mind and safety may make your listening all that more enjoyable. Sean
> |
I was checking to see what the capacity of the HTS 5000 is on the Monster website and I ran across this statement.
"Will the Monster Power Center restrict current to my power amplifiers?
No. On the models that contain High Current Filters, we have passed over 21,000 watts of power through to demonstrate its capabilities. For Monster Power Centers that do not have High Current Filters, the fillter becomes saturated for a few Milliseconds but does not impede current flow."
Im not sure if I should feel any better about running my
amp thru it? But i hate to leave my (pride and joy) amp unprotected... |
Look into Balanced Power Technologies. You can plug your amp. into them.
Tim |
To put things into perspective, your amp alone can EASILY pull 20+ amps by itself if you are throttling the volume control. You have to remember that this amp is FIVE x 200 wpc @ 8 ohms or FIVE x 400 wpc @ 4 ohms.
A review i have of the standard ( non-Signature version ) of the 2 channel Sunfire ( 300 wpc x 2 @ 8 ohms ) had them easily tripping 15 amp circuits when trying to measure this amp on the bench. Now consider that this amp is "only" 600 watts @ 8 ohms( both channels combined ) and your amp is rated at 1000 watts @ 8 ohms ( all channels combined ) and you might begin to get the picture. I'm not saying that you'll ever push your system to drawing that much power or have all of the channels "pumping" at once, but this might give you a better idea of what you'll need in terms of the amount of current that a "filter" or "surge suppressor" would need to pass without restriction.
Personally, I found out about this the hard way. I was running my Sunfire Signature that powers the mains in my HT system ( 3 - 4 ohm 86 dB speakers ) and sent the amp into thermal shutdown on two different occasions. Bare in mind that this amp is rated at 1200 wpc @ 4 ohms and actually maxes out ( goes into clipping ) at about 1450 - 1480 wpc at that impedance. That is, IF you can feed it enough voltage and current from the wall to maintain that level. While i sent the amp back into Sunfire for a check-up and some upgrade modifications, i came to find out that the amp WAS being choked with a 20 amp circuit feeding it. Needless to say, i was kind of shocked but not in disbelief. Obviously, it takes BIG power if you want to make BIG power.
Since you have a dedicated breaker box, your best bet might be to check into surge suppression at the box itself rather than limit what the amp can draw. This would protect EVERYTHING in your system at the same time and it would do this without introducing momentary voltage sag into the rest of the system. You have to remember that as the amp tries to pull current for momentary surges, it would be doing so at the expense of all of the other components that were connected to the PLC. Take that a step further and realize that ALL of your components in the system are now fed by the ONE power cord that feeds the PLC and you can see where a power restriction could easily take place.
To put things into perspective real quick, an amp of this size should have its' own power feed and NOT be tied into a common PLC that feeds the rest of the system. Sean
> |
I am, frankly, shocked that RGPC would make the claim that Bob's unfortunate experience would prove false (along with a number of others'). Suppose they would replace your power amp if such occured after making this claim? Um, prolly not......
OK, I have advice regarding pluggin the power amp straight into the wall socket, but NOT without regard to surge dangers. |
The best way to find out try it for one week to settle
all the equipment attach to it,if it is obviously
not working, then you might want to buy the ultimate
power outlet of ps audio, high current,it works
for me. |
You are the best one to decide if the HTS is limiting dynamics: just use your ears. My guess is that it *might*. Also FWIW: Basic power amps and powered subs do not need surge suppression because we feel they are adequately protected by their own internal transformers The above is absolutely an untrue statement; I have had two unfortunate experiences to the contrary. |
Monroe2,
I also have the Monster 5000. I decided to pick up the
Monster HTS 1000 also to avoid any problems (about 100 bucks
brand new on Yahoo shopping). My configuration is as follows:
2 dedicated lines 10GA one for audio one for video.
5000 with all audio including 120wpc 6ch amp, pre, cd,
dac.
1000 with HD reciever, 65 TV, DVD. Also plugging sub into
empty slot on second dedicated wall plug.
Basically for 100 more bucks you can get some extra insurance against TV, Cable noise ect... Getting into
your audio and also assure your amp has juice that it
needs. I have not had any signs of distress from system
In this configuration.
By the way i think somebody mentioned in one of the responses about isolating ana and dig... The Monster 5000 does have isolation circuits for digital and analog comps.
Good luck... |
While i could tear the response from RGPC up on technical terms, i know that some folks have & use these with good results. I do not doubt that they offer some form of help in specific situations, but i do severely doubt some of the claims that they make. This is especially true in the response provided above. Sean
> |
Last month I filled out the on-line questionnaire at the Richard Gray web site and got this response.
OUR RECOMMENDATIONS:
Since you have four dedicated AC circuits, then you will want to include all components on the RGPC parallel enhancement by placing one RGPC 400 on each circuit. Were you able to place all of your components then all you would need for your system is just one RGPC 600S. Dedicated lines work well, but their importance in our opinion is over stated by many. Since you share your electricity with your neighbors, all of whom are robbing your home of sufficient current to drive you equipment to their fullest potential. What is of more importance is to in effect move the power of your transformer on your street closer to your equipment, and that is precisely what the RGPC technology does. We suggest you plug your basic power amplifiers (not integrated or receivers) and powered subwoofers directly into your wall outlets, with the RGPC units plugged into the adjacent duplex wall outlets, to take full advantage of our non-current-limiting parallel AC line enhancement and energy savings technology. Yes, this means that all components just by being plugged into the same AC circuit will receive RGPC enhancement. Basic power amps and powered subs do not need surge suppression because we feel they are adequately protected by their own internal transformers, while all remaining components should be plugged into the RGPC units themselves to take full advantage of our awesome state-of-the-art surge suppression system.
We can offer you increase in black level, lower noise floor and much more dynamics in both your audio and video reproduction |
Here is a link to more discussion on this topic. There is much talk about one particular product, but worth a read nevertheless.
http://harmonicdiscord.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=17
enjoy,
MaxCast |
THANKS GUYS, I FORGOT ABOUT THE CONTRIBUTING FACTORS: MY MAIN SPEAKERS AND SURROUNDS ARE 3 OHM 87DB SENSITIVITY [INFINITY RENNAISANCE 90 FRONTS AND RENNAISANCE 80 REAR AND MAGNEPAN SMG FOR REAR SIDE CHANNELS. MY ROOM IS 14 X 20. I HAVE BEEN AFRAID TO UNPLUG THE AMP FROM THE LINE CONDITIONER BECAUSE OF THUNDER STORMS ETC.... BUT IT IS A GOOD IDEA FOR THE SEPERATE AMP CONDITIONER.....NOW LETS SEE WHAT I CAN SELL TO PURCHASE ONE...UMMMMM |
Thanks Mdomnick.
Can anyone tell me whether I too could/should run my amp out of the Monster HTS-2000? I looked on the web site, but am not sure whether it seperates digital from the amp, or any other components. The relavent bullets from the Monster website note it has:
- Monster Clean Power™ Stage 2 application-specific filters, for high and low power components.
- High current outlets for power hungry amplifiers.
Thanks. |
my Dreadnaught has never liked being plugged into anything but its own 20 amp dedicated receptacle |
If it were me, I would not. Your amp would be considered a bit of a high powered amp.
It looks as though you have plenty of AC power going into the room. But here's why I would not.
Last year I had two dedicated lines. One for my digital source and one for my high powered amp and my pre. Sounded great.
I installed a third dedicated line and put the pre on that one.
The amp just came alive with dynamics. Even at low volumes there was a tremendous improvement with the dynamic headroom. Lows are low and loud passages can now almost make me jump out of my seat at times.
Turns out that the pre, which consumes only 36 watts of power, was apparently just enough to choke the amp.
With so much stuff you have plugged into the Monster, I would look for alternatives such as a dedicated power conditioner just for the amp. Or at least run some different tests. You have that 100 amp service panel dedicated to the room. I'd take full advantage of that.
Good going by the way.
-IMO |
Yes,if it's an Audio Magic Stealth. One of the most important things needed to be considered is the power draw of the amp / amps/ and or receiver.--- Along with what Sean says--- THE volume. I can't imagine running all this from one conditioner......PERIOD. I would guess the tv PQ will be improved,and the sound Q. improved if these items were on different conditioners. Conditioners vary. I had a CFX;I had to re bias the tubes because the CFX choked my CJ 5's. I also had to wait and turn on the amps a couple of minutes appart.
Ok, this is an extreme.--BUT--I'd guess your system is being choked,fer' sure. |
I had a 5000 and ran my amp through it...you should be ok. I have recently discovered if your equipment has a highly regulated power supply (like my Sonic Frontiers Line 1) you DONT want to use LCs, but the Sunfire should be good to go.
Peter, you heard wrong...a good LC is designed to keep digital gear seperate from other gear plugged into it. I'm sure ideally it would be great to have everything seperate, but I can't afford to do that. |
I'd heard that you don't want to use the same power conditioner for your amp than for the other components. Is this true? |
It depends on several factors. If you have highly efficient speakers of reasonable impedance, a small room and listen at low levels, i see no problems arising at all. If you have a large room, low efficiency low impedance speakers and like to listen at higher volumes, ANY power conditioner will starve this amp. If you are somewhere in the middle of the two situations mentioned above, try it and see what happens. Sean
> |
Rick:
I have had no problem running my equipment through a Tice Solo AV line conditioner, however, I now use a PS Audio P600 Power Plant with even better "musical" results. I can honestly say that with the Tice I was NOT experiencing any current limiting. It sounds like you have your act together with a dedicated 100 amp service to your audio room. You should be good to go! |
