Can cables of any cost and quality provide bass response missing in my B&W speakers?
I'm sure variants of this question have been offered previously, but let me ask in light of the following: I have a very modest main system powered by an Adcom 555II amp, Adcom GFP-750 pre-amp, and run into a pair of B&W CM-4 speakers (6.5in woofer, 6.5in. woofer/mid. and tweeter, and bi-wireable). Any music with a moderate-to- heavy bass component (organ, bass fiddle, etc) just doesn't translate to my ear. I'm using a mid-range pair of Monster cables, and in fact tried a second pair of Z-Series to no audible difference. On the other hand I have a legacy pair of a/d/s 1090L tower speakers (2x7.5in woofers, 6in. mid-range, tweeter) that deliver thundering bass when needed regardless of cabling used, and powered by the same system. Even tried passive bi-amping for the B&Ws by using an old Carver M-500t amp for HF input, and Adcom amp for LF input...no diff. Is there any point really in looking at higher-end speaker wire of, e.g., thicker gauge, or exotic geometry, or multi-conductor "shotgunning", whatever, in order to induce greater LF response from the CM-4s? Thanks for your patience.
I've never, ever, EVER been satisfied with the bass from woofers of 8" or less. Yes, the sound can be great... but not "satisfying"... to me. Even when you stack dual 8's or three 6.5's... it always sounds like little drivers working hard to me. I've got 12's in the living room (old B&W 801s2's), and 15's in my studio, and they ARE satisfying! I've owned Martin Logans with 10"s that were satisfying. You are not going to find the bass in the cables somehow.
Cable evaluation suspended until I can have one of the high-bass/midrange cones refoamed! Existing surround lost its elasticity and in fact cracked in several places after gentle probing with finger...don't think I ever removed cloth driver covers until a couple of days ago when my daughter heard "crackling" in left h-b/midrange cone...totally shocked to see condition of the surround.
How do the surrounds look on the other speaker? I'd be concerned that if I put money into repairing the surrounds on one speaker, I'd soon be facing the same problem on the other speaker. How would the cost of refurbishing both speakers compare to a new set of speakers?
mtrot: initially I ws convinced that all four woofer/midrange cones had “bad” surrounds, but closer examination seems to implicate only the one midrange surround, which just completely disintegrated with trying to remove from cone. Hope I in fact won’t need new driver.
OldGuide +1, and imho Audioquest is THE king of snake oil nowadays. It is amazing to see the fallacies they come up with, just to sell cables ranging from thin- ("entry-level") to larger-gauges ("high-end").
There’s an outfit called KnuKonceptz that sell a Kimber VS-series knockoff called “Krux cable”: 2x8 18awg braided conductors @ 8awg +/- and selling as raw cable for $5.49/ft. A 12awg braided version per Kimble 4-VS also available @ $3.25/ft.
B&W won't have good bass and lousy treble either model 800 .... ( never get deep , tight and strong bass ) ... you should go with Dynaudio speakers .... for bookshelf go with : Dynaudio C1 Confidence Platinum Make you happy all the time !!!!
High Fidelity Cables (HFC) has various products that I would highly recommend. I have their Reveal line of cables to include RCA, XLR, and power cable. Each product significantly benefited my system. Surprisingly, you may want to start with their MC-0.5 power conditioner. My first experience with HFC was with the MC-0.5 - it increased clarity, fullness, depth and soundstage presence.
As a cable guy I will say it clearly - forget about it. In any case, you want balanced cables not 'tone controls'. The only thing you might want to try is to put a better power cord on the amp. Other than that - sorry, you need better speakers, but you know it.
If the ADS speakers have adequate bass in the same system as you state, then it is clear that the problem is the B&W speakers. I believe cables can make a subtle, but musically important difference. They will not fix what is wrong with the speakers. Spending money on cables in this instance is the wrong move, IMO. Properly selected cables are not tone controls as Inna stated, but they can be the icing on the cake for a well sorted out system.
+1 csmgolf. "they can be the icing on the cake for a well sorted out system."
If your speakers have bass limitations maybe getting the most out of them still won’t make you happy. I have speakers that have twin 7" bass drivers and they are rated to 30hz +/- 3db. They go lower that that with rolloff increasing. Bass is very good and adequately low but still not chest pounding that only a larger driver can do. My speakers are also in a much higher price tier than the speakers in question here, but the bass capability is indeed there.
I also, like mtrot, use the Cerious Technology Graphene Extreme speaker cables and agree that these are one of the better cables out there that clearly have allowed the bass potential of my speakers to be unleashed. Prior <$500 cables were good, but the CTs were a huge jump in performance. I’ve been historically frugal but these changed my thinking, enough to know what can be achieved.
The point here is that cables don’t make bass, rather they permit whatever is possible to come forth. Great cables do make a difference, but I still would not spend a disproportionate amount on cables based on the speaker price. Maybe 10-20% of the speaker price for cables is certainly warranted however as component investments go.
Cerious Technologies just launched their new price-no-object (still not ridiculous) line of cables that early upgraders are saying is worth the jump. For my system the price would still fall in the 10-20% range of my speakers. I am tempted to eek out that last bit of bass. One of the early upgraders has my speakers and is raving that the bass is even stronger, deeper sounding (not in actual measurement - that’s not possible), and better controlled than before. For me, I will probably pull that trigger when funds are available. My system is built around the speakers, so getting the most out of them is worth it to me.
Per thread in "Speakers, new surrounds have given new life to the CM-4s, excellent bass/hi-bass/midrange, and speakers up and running. Using some rilly old Monster cables temporarily, have ordered from Douglas Connections Furez 4x12awg pure Cu wire, and some 2x12awg for messing about with some biwire combos, and some fairly inexpensive 10awg Western Electric cloth-encased Sn-coated Cu wire, "gen-u-wine" WE kit, so the seller says. For round ca. $100, cheap enough for some diverse experimental approaches to amp-speaker hookups. Not expecting much, but the Monsters have to go...old and getting frayed.
Douglas Connection Furez are very nice copper cables. In addition to my Cerious Tecnnology Graphene Extreme cables, I have a set of Douglas Connection Alpha 12 AWG OCC Speaker Cables with Furutech rhodium connectors, which retail for ~$1,200 for a 9 foot run.
Both the Cerious GE and DC Alpha 12 cables allow great sound, but in comparing them, somehow the Graphene Extreme seem to have a wider frequency range, in that both the treble and bass seem to be more extended. I also get a great sound stage, imaging, and depth with the GE. Perhaps I'll hook the Alphas back up and "re-compare" them at some point. When/if I ever get a big center channel speaker, I plan to use the Alpha to connect it.
Just so that you know, I took a look at the Furez cable and they do not seem to be anything more than just normal stranded 12awg conductors. It does use foamed polyethylene insulation, which will be a much better coating than plastic/PVC of the monster cable or monoprice stuff. It may be sounding better, but I would not expect a whole lot. I just replaced another system with Audioquest rocket cables and it also made a significant improvement. Nothing really compares to solid-core conductors in my experience, even the radically expensive Furutech OCC copper stranded still doesn't sound quite as solid and natural as cheaper solid-core.
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